whatboutbob
Serial Avatar Troll
- Thread starter
- #51
And this is supposed to be done live? Eesh!
-
LIVE: Richmond v Melbourne - 7:25PM Wed
Squiggle tips Demons at 77% chance -- What's your tip? -- Team line-ups »
New academy bidding system
- Thread starter whatboutbob
- Start date
- Tagged users None
winged1
Norm Smith Medallist
- Aug 30, 2013
- 5,281
- 6,529
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
BRISBANE Lions CEO Greg Swann has bristled at the proposed new bidding system for academy players, saying the discount is not enough to justify the club's hefty financial investment.
Swann suggested the Lions would consider handing control of their academy back to the AFL if the new system went ahead.
He said the proposed new model was a knee-jerk reaction to the Sydney Swans acquiring talented academy product Isaac Heeney with pick No.18 in last year's AFL Draft.
Click here for a detailed description of the new system
"We've got to see whether there's still value in running these academies," Swann told AFL.com.au.
"We pay for them ourselves and unless there's some benefits coming out of it, you've got to question whether you want to keep investing.
"We've spent the best part of $800,000 over the last couple of years and if you can't get anything for it, then you might hand it back to the AFL to run it, because if there's no benefit to us, why would we do it?"
"The last three years no-one's said boo, no-one any good came out of there," he said.
"It's only since Heeney came out that everyone is up in arms about things. It's a bit knee-jerk."
The Swans would have had to give up their first three draft selections to acquire Heeney if the model was in place last year.
Swann said those outside Queensland and New South Wales had to understand the academies not only expanded the talent pool for the entire competition, but also kept youngsters in the game that might otherwise leave.
He said if the proposed system were implemented, it would make it extremely difficult to take more than one academy player each year.
"The other thing that's in there, that people deny happens that happen, is clubs bid you up, they know you're going to take them."
What's that clubs bid you up did you say.
Swann suggested the Lions would consider handing control of their academy back to the AFL if the new system went ahead.
He said the proposed new model was a knee-jerk reaction to the Sydney Swans acquiring talented academy product Isaac Heeney with pick No.18 in last year's AFL Draft.
Click here for a detailed description of the new system
"We've got to see whether there's still value in running these academies," Swann told AFL.com.au.
"We pay for them ourselves and unless there's some benefits coming out of it, you've got to question whether you want to keep investing.
"We've spent the best part of $800,000 over the last couple of years and if you can't get anything for it, then you might hand it back to the AFL to run it, because if there's no benefit to us, why would we do it?"
"The last three years no-one's said boo, no-one any good came out of there," he said.
"It's only since Heeney came out that everyone is up in arms about things. It's a bit knee-jerk."
The Swans would have had to give up their first three draft selections to acquire Heeney if the model was in place last year.
Swann said those outside Queensland and New South Wales had to understand the academies not only expanded the talent pool for the entire competition, but also kept youngsters in the game that might otherwise leave.
He said if the proposed system were implemented, it would make it extremely difficult to take more than one academy player each year.
"The other thing that's in there, that people deny happens that happen, is clubs bid you up, they know you're going to take them."
What's that clubs bid you up did you say.
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
Swann has already raised it but any move to reduce the benefit gained from the cost of running an Academy is potentially a disincentive on the NSW/Qld clubs investing in local youth.
As far as I'm aware, there is no rule on what level of financial support a club needs to give an academy. Other than the ire of the AFL, is there anything stopping a club putting out a list of young players and saying "There's our Academy. See you blokes on draft night if you have a good year."?
The intent is to develop more and better players in the expansion States. It is not just a list of the best footballers in the catchment area. Football is best served by a pathway in those states. If the clubs are to do the heavy lifting, then the cost-benefit needs to stack up.
If we're spending hundreds of thousands a year on the Academy, then right now I wonder if it is worth it, given the players we've secured so far are hardly marquee
types. The payoff should be when our Heeney or Mills comes along.
I'm not completely opposed to adjusting the bidding system. But looking simply at the "unfairness" of Sydney getting Heeney will completely distort what is trying to be achieved through the academies. There has to be a balance.
As far as I'm aware, there is no rule on what level of financial support a club needs to give an academy. Other than the ire of the AFL, is there anything stopping a club putting out a list of young players and saying "There's our Academy. See you blokes on draft night if you have a good year."?
The intent is to develop more and better players in the expansion States. It is not just a list of the best footballers in the catchment area. Football is best served by a pathway in those states. If the clubs are to do the heavy lifting, then the cost-benefit needs to stack up.
If we're spending hundreds of thousands a year on the Academy, then right now I wonder if it is worth it, given the players we've secured so far are hardly marquee
types. The payoff should be when our Heeney or Mills comes along.
I'm not completely opposed to adjusting the bidding system. But looking simply at the "unfairness" of Sydney getting Heeney will completely distort what is trying to be achieved through the academies. There has to be a balance.
Fatcat08
Cool and Footbally
Veteran
Lions Board Service Medal
Brisbane Lions - Mitch Robinson Player Sponsor 2016
Brisbane Lions - 2013 Elliot Yeo Player Sponsor
Brisbane Lions - 2013 Daniel Rich Player Sponsor
Brisbane Lions - Callum Bartlett 2012 Player Sponsor
Brisbane Lions - Ryan Harwood 2011 Player Sponsor
Brisbane Lions - Todd Banfield 2010 Player Sponsor
Good post and this point had me intrigued. I do wonder if there's any metrics to it that we don't get to see although given the on the run policy the afl makes it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't. The old heres an academy membership pack and an email on what sort of training you should be doing and what you should be eating, could be the result. If that happens then the AFL will have really shot themselves in the foot.
Too many intangibles for me with this system. It looks pretty but it doesn't give me the feel of being very efficient at achieving it's purpose. Especially when taking our 2014 academy situation into account.
Really if they wanted to be so technical it should be that each individual draft year has a rating that dictates picks values for that particular year. Using the an average value for draft picks is a very lazy solution IMO.
Really if they wanted to be so technical it should be that each individual draft year has a rating that dictates picks values for that particular year. Using the an average value for draft picks is a very lazy solution IMO.
Last edited:
All too confusing for me, but from the last couple of pages, it looks to be a system built with the sole intention of the AFL being able to claim some high ground by saying "We haven't taken away the ability to bid on academy players, nor your priority in doing so via the discount".
They're not stopping anyone from doing anything, just introduced a huge disincentive.
The bottom line is, if there is no advantage in having an academy, it will cease to be, and we again go backwards. The AFL, at the bequest of the Eddies of this world continue to chip away and erode any levellers for the northern states.
They're not stopping anyone from doing anything, just introduced a huge disincentive.
The bottom line is, if there is no advantage in having an academy, it will cease to be, and we again go backwards. The AFL, at the bequest of the Eddies of this world continue to chip away and erode any levellers for the northern states.
"Keep it simple, stupid" has never really been the AFL's go-to credo, hey.
Fatcat08
Cool and Footbally
Veteran
Lions Board Service Medal
Brisbane Lions - Mitch Robinson Player Sponsor 2016
Brisbane Lions - 2013 Elliot Yeo Player Sponsor
Brisbane Lions - 2013 Daniel Rich Player Sponsor
Brisbane Lions - Callum Bartlett 2012 Player Sponsor
Brisbane Lions - Ryan Harwood 2011 Player Sponsor
Brisbane Lions - Todd Banfield 2010 Player Sponsor
The Flying Belgian
Third Tall
More like "Keep it stupid, simpletons"
I disagree. If you look at Sydney this coming year, they have 2 players that are likely to receive 1st round bids. They'd know that and can plan accordingly.
Do they try to trade out one of their current players (Mitchell was thrown around last trade period) to get an extra high pick so that they can keep their 2nd round onward picks this year, or do they essentially forfeit the majority of their picks for this year and have a lot of next years downgraded for two players now?
At least having the bidding after trade week gives them the option of choosing between the two approaches and getting more high end picks by trading players out if that's the option they choose.
winged1
Norm Smith Medallist
- Aug 30, 2013
- 5,281
- 6,529
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
Some years are going to be up, some down. I mean FFS Collingwood is bitching and they get Darcy Moore at a bargain price THIS YEAR. Doesnt always mean FS are going to be that good, doesnt mean it isnt going to happen again. It's just the way it is, but it doesnt mean you have to put in place an overly complicated system to account for the exceptions.
KISS= keep Eddie etc happy. Can't be too hard.
People are surprised that the power-brokers who run the AFL aren't doing us any favours? Seriously!!
People are surprised that the power-brokers who run the AFL aren't doing us any favours? Seriously!!
notting18
Norm Smith Medallist
I have always thought you start with the simpliest possible system as overtime with developments rules always becomes more complicated.
Yes the current system could be tightened up, but this seems like a crazily complicated way of fixing a small problem. A real sledgehammer solution that opens up a significant possibility for abuse. More rules, more loopholes.
Yes the current system could be tightened up, but this seems like a crazily complicated way of fixing a small problem. A real sledgehammer solution that opens up a significant possibility for abuse. More rules, more loopholes.
BigEasyPeasy
Team Captain
I've felt for a while now that all academies should be run centrally via the AFL. Essentially that means "the AFL should keep developing Aussie Rules in non-traditional states."
It may not wash well with some here but I think it bids well for long term sustainability.
It may not wash well with some here but I think it bids well for long term sustainability.
- Aug 10, 2005
- 46,545
- 42,486
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
There should also be a funding limit. Sydney shouldn't be investing far more than us or the expanding teams.
I think it's pretty disgusting that Academy Players are considered 25% discount whilst Father Sons are considered 15%
It's typical Sydney and Brisbane protectionism
If anything it should be the other way around. These Academy players have no links to their club whilst Father Sons do, I'd prefer a 25% discount for all or at least a 25% discount for Father Sons
Also of course this comes in When Carlton has 3 possible Father Sons whilst Essendon, Collingwood and Sydney have reaped the rewards over the last few seasons.
Typical AFL
It's typical Sydney and Brisbane protectionism
If anything it should be the other way around. These Academy players have no links to their club whilst Father Sons do, I'd prefer a 25% discount for all or at least a 25% discount for Father Sons
Also of course this comes in When Carlton has 3 possible Father Sons whilst Essendon, Collingwood and Sydney have reaped the rewards over the last few seasons.
Typical AFL
Do you REALLY think that Brisbane have been protected in recent years?
I don't, not recently. But they were given 3 premierships with their extra salary cap room in the early 2000's the same way Sydney has been the last few years. The same as Sydney is now they are getting less direct help but more help in other areas such as the Academy
I just don't agree with the Academy's what so ever. I like how they work, but I don't think any team should get first dibs on them. They should be there to develop players for the best of the competition not those state teams.
Ironmonger
Brownlow Medallist
- Aug 13, 2001
- 10,452
- 17,513
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
- Other Teams
- Melbourne Victory
I honestly don't understand why there's any discount for father-son picks.
The academy concessions are there presumably for three reasons - to give frontier states a better chance to improve the number of local players on their list so it's somewhat comparable to other clubs, to offset the increased exposure to the go-home factor, and to allow them to recoup some of their private investment in the academies.
None of those things are relevant for father/son selections.
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
Dunno if running an argument that we were "given" three flags will go down well here....
I appreciate your candor, but you'll have trouble getting this argument off the ground on this board.
Nor this.
Those have all of the hallmarks of a lack of understanding.
Father Sons are there to keep a bit of heart and loyalty in a sport that is increasingly becoming plastic and commercial
Academy's are commercial and plastic trying to support teams that can't support themselves
Lack of understanding? What is there to understand?
Adelaide and Perth don't get academies, St Kilda and Western Bulldogs don't have Academy's
Academy's should be in every state to develop players for the best possible draft by all teams. Not to benefit Sydney and Qlnd
