Bruce Francis

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Gigantor said:
28 December 2011: The peptide material order [made on 8 December 2011] from China is delivered to Alavi at his Como Compounding Pharmacy.

On 11 January 2012: Charter sent Dank an SMS querying ‘which peptides do you need next?’ Dank replied Thymosin Beta 4 and CJC-1295.’

BF's Comment:
• ASADA has produced SMSs and emails from Dank for almost everything bar a request to go to the toilet. It is extraordinary, and unacceptable, that ASADA has not produced an SMS or email as evidence that Dank replied “Thymosin Beta-4. As it stands ASADA is testifying;
• Dank had other clients at his Aging Clinics. There is no evidence Thymosin Beta-4 was to be used by Dank on the Essendon players.​

Some colourful language from BF to make a good point. With so many SMSs collected on absolutely everything, why would there not be something from Dank in response to Charter's question?
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I don't understand the bolded part. It says in the extract from the report that "Dank replied: Thymosin Beta 4..."
but then BF and you go on to say that they have never produced the evidence of Dank saying this. If this is taken as an extract from the report, then what other information do you have that this text message ASADA claim to have (which is quoted in this extract) doesn't exist?
 
ASADA Comment (page 384): In late 2011, Mr Charter visited China to purchase raw peptides as part of his role in the business arrangement. Mr Charter purchased a variety of substances from G L Biochem in Shanghai including: CJC-1295; GHRP-6; Hexarelin; Melanotan II; MGF (Mechano Growth Factor); and Thymosin Beta-4.

BF's Comment: This is not true and contradicts what ASADA has stated on two previous occasions. According to ASADA Charter went to China on 26 November 2011 and returned on 2 December 2011. ASADA alleged the intention of the trip was to purchase CJC-1295; GHRP-2 and 1GF1-LR3. There is no evidence he intended purchasing Thymosin-4 or in fact purchased the substances. ASADA alleges he purchased the three products plus Thymosin Beta-4. Chip Le Grand reported that the Chinese supplier Xu told him he gave Charter some samples. Charter did not purchase anything.
 

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Gigantor said:
ASADA Comment: Despite players having been repeatedly injected with AOD-9604 and Thymosin, ASADA has been unable to recover any purchase orders, invoices or remittance notices from Essendon in respect of these supplements.
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You post this like it is a good thing. Isn't lack of records an offence under the WADA code? I'd be happy if they slammed the club and the players for this if that's all they have.
 
ASADA Comment: Given the importance of the player’s own recollections, this report has annexed a comprehensive summary of each player’s evidence. However, the evidence of the players can be summarised as follows: The vast majority of player signed the Patient Information/Informed Consent forms for AOD-9604, Colostrum, Thymosin and Tribulus. 11 players believed or suspected that had been administered Thymosin by Mr Dank. 28 players received injections of unknown composition on multiple occasions. No player was advised of the nature or source of the Mexican amino acid injections administered at HyperMED. Every player who received the Mexican amino acid injection would have refused the treatment had they been advised of the origins of the substance.

BF's Comment:
• In an unforgivable act of gross incompetence, ASADA mistakenly told the players one of the substances they were administered was sourced from Mexico. This caused the players great mental stress, which should enable the players to sue ASADA;
• The above comment by ASADA is one of many which amplifies the sheer stupidity of ASADA charging 34 Essendon players. A kindergarten child could do the maths and realise the figures don’t add up. A maximum of 11 players say they may have been administered Thymosin. Twenty-eight players “received injections of unknown composition”. How the heck did 34 players get charged with being administered Thymosin Beta-4? ASADA must have knocked off the calculator Joe Hockey threw out in disgust after used it to do the budget.
 
Gigantor said:
ASADA Comment (page 384): In late 2011, Mr Charter visited China to purchase raw peptides as part of his role in the business arrangement. Mr Charter purchased a variety of substances from G L Biochem in Shanghai including: CJC-1295; GHRP-6; Hexarelin; Melanotan II; MGF (Mechano Growth Factor); and Thymosin Beta-4.

BF's Comment: This is not true and contradicts what ASADA has stated on two previous occasions. According to ASADA Charter went to China on 26 November 2011 and returned on 2 December 2011. ASADA alleged the intention of the trip was to purchase CJC-1295; GHRP-2 and 1GF1-LR3. There is no evidence he intended purchasing Thymosin-4 or in fact purchased the substances. ASADA alleges he purchased the three products plus Thymosin Beta-4. Chip Le Grand reported that the Chinese supplier Xu told him he gave Charter some samples. Charter did not purchase anything.
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Which part of the bolded is incorrect?

Also, who says that he wasn't asked to pick up something else while he was there? His original purpose may have been the first three, but someone contacts him, and he gets something else.

Perhaps his job was to get samples. If he declared it at customs, perhaps it was to show that the amounts were small and for 'personal use'.

Alavi has said in another one of the extracts that he received a 'package from China'. Was this posted directly after the samples were tested and found to be of good quality?
 
D-N-R said:
I don't understand the bolded part. It says in the extract from the report that "Dank replied: Thymosin Beta 4..."
but then BF and you go on to say that they have never produced the evidence of Dank saying this. If this is taken as an extract from the report, then what other information do you have that this text message ASADA claim to have (which is quoted in this extract) doesn't exist?
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It is what I like to refer to as "Complete and Utter BS."
Gigantor said:
ASADA Comment: Given the importance of the player’s own recollections, this report has annexed a comprehensive summary of each player’s evidence. However, the evidence of the players can be summarised as follows: The vast majority of player signed the Patient Information/Informed Consent forms for AOD-9604, Colostrum, Thymosin and Tribulus. 11 players believed or suspected that had been administered Thymosin by Mr Dank. 28 players received injections of unknown composition on multiple occasions. No player was advised of the nature or source of the Mexican amino acid injections administered at HyperMED. Every player who received the Mexican amino acid injection would have refused the treatment had they been advised of the origins of the substance.

BF's Comment:
• In an unforgivable act of gross incompetence, ASADA mistakenly told the players one of the substances they were administered was sourced from Mexico. This caused the players great mental stress, which should enable the players to sue ASADA;
• The above comment by ASADA is one of many which amplifies the sheer stupidity of ASADA charging 34 Essendon players. A kindergarten child could do the maths and realise the figures don’t add up. A maximum of 11 players say they may have been administered Thymosin. Twenty-eight players “received injections of unknown composition”. How the heck did 34 players get charged with being administered Thymosin Beta-4? ASADA must have knocked off the calculator Joe Hockey threw out in disgust after used it to do the budget.
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It ******* was Lol.The IQ of this bloke would not even register a score in an IQ test it is that low
 
"BF: Six players admitted to being administered Thymosin. One, Jobe Watson, said he was administered Thymomodulin, but ASADA deliberately omitted his evidence from the Interim Report. Six players said that they may have been administered Thymosin. As 34 players have been charged, responses to the Thymosin question are obviously irrelevant. ASADA is relying on something else to prove 34 players were administered Thymosin Beta-4."

Strange didn't Watson state Dank explained there was the good and bad thymosin's ??? He was getting the good one, which he thought was thymomodulin.

Thymomodulin is NOT a Thymosin which Thymosin did Watson receive?
 
D-N-R said:
You post this like it is a good thing. Isn't lack of records an offence under the WADA code? I'd be happy if they slammed the club and the players for this if that's all they have.
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As BF notes, ASADA, as part of its evidence, highlights the fact that there is no evidence of EFC having paid for Thymosin (Thymomodulin) or TA1, or AOD for that matter, but equally, there is no evidence of EFC having paid for Thymosin Beta 4, noting that it is actually ASADA prosecuting the case that TB4 was used.
 
Gigantor said:
ASADA Comment: Given the importance of the player’s own recollections, this report has annexed a comprehensive summary of each player’s evidence. However, the evidence of the players can be summarised as follows: The vast majority of player signed the Patient Information/Informed Consent forms for AOD-9604, Colostrum, Thymosin and Tribulus. 11 players believed or suspected that had been administered Thymosin by Mr Dank. 28 players received injections of unknown composition on multiple occasions. No player was advised of the nature or source of the Mexican amino acid injections administered at HyperMED. Every player who received the Mexican amino acid injection would have refused the treatment had they been advised of the origins of the substance.

BF's Comment:
• In an unforgivable act of gross incompetence, ASADA mistakenly told the players one of the substances they were administered was sourced from Mexico. This caused the players great mental stress, which should enable the players to sue ASADA;
• The above comment by ASADA is one of many which amplifies the sheer stupidity of ASADA charging 34 Essendon players. A kindergarten child could do the maths and realise the figures don’t add up. A maximum of 11 players say they may have been administered Thymosin. Twenty-eight players “received injections of unknown composition”. How the heck did 34 players get charged with being administered Thymosin Beta-4? ASADA must have knocked off the calculator Joe Hockey threw out in disgust after used it to do the budget.
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The New Mexico / Mexico thing has been confirmed by an Essendon lawyer as being from Mexico. This is old 'sombrero'.

The players have claimed that they were aware of everything they took, that they had extra instruction to make sure, yet when it comes time to remembering what they were given, they couldn't remember and were vague.
 
Gavstar said:
"BF: Six players admitted to being administered Thymosin. One, Jobe Watson, said he was administered Thymomodulin, but ASADA deliberately omitted his evidence from the Interim Report. Six players said that they may have been administered Thymosin. As 34 players have been charged, responses to the Thymosin question are obviously irrelevant. ASADA is relying on something else to prove 34 players were administered Thymosin Beta-4."

Strange didn't Watson state Dank explained there was the good and bad thymosin's ??? He was getting the good one, which he thought was thymomodulin.

Thymomodulin is NOT a Thymosin which Thymosin did Watson receive?
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Many overseas suppliers market Thymomodulin as Thymosin (Thymomodulin).
 
Gigantor said:
ASADA Comment: Given the importance of the player’s own recollections, this report has annexed a comprehensive summary of each player’s evidence. However, the evidence of the players can be summarised as follows: The vast majority of player signed the Patient Information/Informed Consent forms for AOD-9604, Colostrum, Thymosin and Tribulus. 11 players believed or suspected that had been administered Thymosin by Mr Dank. 28 players received injections of unknown composition on multiple occasions. No player was advised of the nature or source of the Mexican amino acid injections administered at HyperMED. Every player who received the Mexican amino acid injection would have refused the treatment had they been advised of the origins of the substance.

BF's Comment:
• In an unforgivable act of gross incompetence, ASADA mistakenly told the players one of the substances they were administered was sourced from Mexico. This caused the players great mental stress, which should enable the players to sue ASADA;
• The above comment by ASADA is one of many which amplifies the sheer stupidity of ASADA charging 34 Essendon players. A kindergarten child could do the maths and realise the figures don’t add up. A maximum of 11 players say they may have been administered Thymosin. Twenty-eight players “received injections of unknown composition”. How the heck did 34 players get charged with being administered Thymosin Beta-4? ASADA must have knocked off the calculator Joe Hockey threw out in disgust after used it to do the budget.
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Please tell me you're not seriously quoting this crap to strengthen your argument?
 

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D-N-R said:
The New Mexico / Mexico thing has been confirmed by an Essendon lawyer as being from Mexico. This is old 'sombrero'.

The players have claimed that they were aware of everything they took, that they had extra instruction to make sure, yet when it comes time to remembering what they were given, they couldn't remember and were vague.
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The point is that ASADA stated in its report that it came from El Paso, Mexico.
 
Gigantor said:
As BF notes, ASADA, as part of its evidence, highlights the fact that there is no evidence of EFC having paid for Thymosin (Thymomodulin) or TA1, or AOD for that matter, but equally, there is no evidence of EFC having paid for Thymosin Beta 4, noting that it is actually ASADA prosecuting the case that TB4 was used.
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And not having records is an offence in itself. If it was easy to just 'lose' records and get away with cheating, then every athlete would do it. It is akin to missing a drug test.
 
hfchfc said:
Show me one other occasion where "do you still beat your wife" has been used as a comparison to loaded. leading questions? By the way, I'm free balling so no knickers in a twist!! (sorry too much information). My point is that the bloke cannot be taken seriously.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ball-...im-rome-stop-beating-wife-202222756--nba.html

VIDEO:


Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

EDIT - Should have finished reading the thread before posting.
 
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ASADA Comment (page 304): Investigators have come into possession of a letter from Jack Bock Lawyers who purports to be representing Alavi. The letter, dated 13 February 2013, was sent to a number of journalists warning that if they were to persist with the existing context in discussing Alavi’s business, Alavi would be faced with the unhappy task of having to exercise whatever remedies are available for him to preserve and/or restore his reputation. In the letter, Alavi’s lawyers makes the following points: My client wishes to stress that he supplies peptides to patients and, although under no legal obligation to require the same, only on prescription by a medical practitioner. My client will not supply peptides to a patient without an official prescription. The peptides which have been supplied by my client have been supplied only to patients.
• My client does not dispense any medications (including peptides) without a prescription from a medical practitioner;
• My client only dispenses medication to individual patients and does not supply any clinics or sporting bodies with medication;
• My client has no arrangement to supply medication to any sporting body;
• My client does not supply any performance-enhancing drugs (including peptides) to any AFL player or other professional sportsman;
• My client has no association with Steve Danks (sic).
 
Shane Charter’s Evidence ASADA Comment (page 167): Mr Charter told ASADA investigators that he had no direct knowledge of Essendon’s supplementation program. Although Mr Charter admitted procuring WADA prohibited substances from China on behalf of Mr Dank, he could not positively say whether Mr Dank had administered those substances to Essendon players. Much of the evidence provided by Mr Charter has been independently corroborated which tends to underpin the veracity of his claims.

This quote from ASADA's interim report states the bleeding obvious, that Charter knew nothing about EFC's supplements program and/or what Dank was giving the players.

The last line is also interesting, given how unreliable we now know Charter to be as a witness, over and over ASADA falls over itself trying to make out how good a witness Charter is.

Are they trying to convince themselves?
 
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