No Oppo Supporters Swans v Hawks - the thread where we let it all out (READ OP FIRST)

[bungee]

They all got to start somewhere , Mitchell will be fine

I'm also pretty sure he'll be a good 'un but the fact is we shouldn't have been surprised that our changed list didn't stand up in a GF. You could argue that without those changes we wouldn't have made the GF at all, and that may well be true.

I'd hope Horse will be looking at 2012 & 2014 and thinking "What did I get right ?" and "What did I miss ?". I'd rather drop a couple and finish 4th if it means we have the guys needed to play tough in the finals.

 

[Punts]

I would have more confidence in Mitchell to do his job in finals than some others but that's my opinion , stupid call by horse to drop him after the tigers game. They bullshit that Mitchell wasn't fit enough but bring in bird

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I would have more confidence in Mitchell to do his job in finals than some others but that's my opinion , stupid call by horse to drop him after the tigers game. They bullshit that Mitchell wasn't fit enough but bring in bird

I didn't mind the bringing in Bird...I did mind the starting him as a sub BS when we needed SOMEONE to tag their midfield brigade. If he isn't fit to do that he shouldn't have been selected. For me it is and was that simple.

 

[nottenthagain]

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2015-01-14/goodes-times-ahead

Goodesy indicates that his & the teams main goal for 2015 is to seek atonement for our pathetic GF performance.

He says:

"We played our worst brand of football for a long time... it no doubt motivated the group to want to get better"

(The 2014 Australian of the Year said watching a replay of the demolition together turned the team's heartbreak into pre-season determination)

"I knew we were bad, but I didn't think we were as bad as what we were, so it was good to have a little bit of closure from that game"

I am a little disappointed we have a brand of that quality. We really should sell that out of our portfolio....

 

[swansfan51]

Most of all though, it really struck me how much hardness we lost. Those were 5 guys who gave everything to a contest.

Horse's challenge then, as I see it, is .. he needs to find that bloods spirit again. I don't see it in the new crop. I see skills, I see haircuts, I see one newbie (not sure whom) on a pre-season training clip sweeping his hair back as the camera swings onto him despite being in the middle of a team run (and I think, f*&k, it's not about you mate) but I don't see desperation. I don't even see it in the older players so much now and, to be honest, it's got to be all or none. The spirit that brought the Swans back from the brink started with Paul Kelly, was cemented by Stuart Maxfield and carved in stone by Brett Kirk. The Bloods culture infused the whole team. That's why it worked. They all bought in to the fight. They were the 22 musketeers. All for one and one for all. You touched one Blood and the other took it very personally. In the 2014 GF no one seemed to give a tinker's cuss about the hits on their team mates. LRT would have gone over and thumped the entire Hawks team.

Fantastic turnaround bungee, good to see you say the team lacked hardness and spirit

 

[bungee]

I didn't mind the bringing in Bird...I did mind the starting him as a sub BS when we needed SOMEONE to tag their midfield brigade. If he isn't fit to do that he shouldn't have been selected. For me it is and was that simple.

Agree. Bird should have started. He is our best shutdown player and that's why I rate him ahead of Mitchell. Bird is two players for the price of one.

 

[bungee]

Fantastic turnaround bungee, good to see you say the team lacked hardness and spirit

Why turnaround ? It's just an observation that became apparent watching the 2012 PF. What I'm really seeing is the turnover of personnel left us exposed. We could play the fast game, the slick game but just don't have the bodies to play the hard game. Bringing in a bunch of young players is not going to sort that out. Guys like LRT, Bolton and ROK were f..ing monsters at the coal face. We've improved the side's ability to win more games. I give Horse a big tick for that. We've blooded new players, again a big tick. Now we need to select based on ability to hurt (physically) the opposition and to negate their players. We also need to go back to Bloods basics.

 

[Punts]

I didn't mind the bringing in Bird...I did mind the starting him as a sub BS when we needed SOMEONE to tag their midfield brigade. If he isn't fit to do that he shouldn't have been selected. For me it is and was that simple.

If they wanted to go by inform player at the end of the year Mitchell shouldn't of been in front of Bird imo.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Why turnaround ? It's just an observation that became apparent watching the 2012 PF. What I'm really seeing is the turnover of personnel left us exposed. We could play the fast game, the slick game but just don't have the bodies to play the hard game. Bringing in a bunch of young players is not going to sort that out. Guys like LRT, Bolton and ROK were f..ing monsters at the coal face. We've improved the side's ability to win more games. I give Horse a big tick for that. We've blooded new players, again a big tick. Now we need to select based on ability to hurt (physically) the opposition and to negate their players. We also need to go back to Bloods basics.

Bungee on the flip side i know we were depleted in the backline and forward line but in the 2013 PF against Freo that very same midfield of ROK, Bolton, Mumford got dismantled the same way.

Just a thing to remember grunt alone is not the answer

 

[bungee]

Bungee on the flip side i know we were depleted in the backline and forward line but in the 2013 PF against Freo that very same midfield of ROK, Bolton, Mumford got dismantled the same way.

Just a thing to remember grunt alone is not the answer

To be fair the midfield was knackered and sorely depleted in 2013. I'd argue we got to the prelim on guts and spirit alone.

The takeaway from watching the PF 2012 was Ryhce Shaw getting stuck into his brother for taking down his teammate. Every time a Swan got roughed their teammates would give back twice as much. We were always the team that tackled hardest and gave the most. FastForward to the 2014 GF and the entire team let Jetta get smashed up, let Buddy cop it from Lake and so on. They let the Hawks hit into them.

 

[Number37]

To be fair the midfield was knackered and sorely depleted in 2013. I'd argue we got to the prelim on guts and spirit alone.

The takeaway from watching the PF 2012 was Ryhce Shaw getting stuck into his brother for taking down his teammate. Every time a Swan got roughed their teammates would give back twice as much. We were always the team that tackled hardest and gave the most. FastForward to the 2014 GF and the entire team let Jetta get smashed up, let Buddy cop it from Lake and so on. They let the Hawks hit into them.

There is a division in the team, they are just good enough to beat everyone else in spite of.

 

[Vin Rogue]

Why turnaround ? It's just an observation that became apparent watching the 2012 PF. What I'm really seeing is the turnover of personnel left us exposed. We could play the fast game, the slick game but just don't have the bodies to play the hard game. Bringing in a bunch of young players is not going to sort that out. Guys like LRT, Bolton and ROK were f..ing monsters at the coal face. We've improved the side's ability to win more games. I give Horse a big tick for that. We've blooded new players, again a big tick. Now we need to select based on ability to hurt (physically) the opposition and to negate their players. We also need to go back to Bloods basics.

Spot on. Reckon D Rex is probably our only enforcer with Mummy and LRT gone. Sheedy's use of specialised hit men in Grannies is well known. Our boys might have walked taller with D Rex on the ground with the assigned role of protector and executioner.At the very least, those Hawks who were dishing out the pain would have been looking out for the evener. It would have taken away a bit of their focus, knowing that retribution was coming. And as far as fans go, it is always a plus, seeing an avenger doing his stuff, after our own have been the victims of their assigned thugs. And of course, when there is no physical response to bullying and intimidation on the ground, then the game is over. Hawthorn's selection of McEvoy in the GF should be seen in this light. If we had selected D Rex then our message would have been very loud and clear.Game on and bring it on.

 

[DavyRed]

There is a division in the team, they are just good enough to beat everyone else in spite of.

Please explain.

 

[Superstar swan]

A loss like the gf will galvinise the team. We know buddy ,parker,mglynn will fly the flag. The rest we need to get some c@#t about them

 

[swansfan51]

A loss like the gf will galvinise the team. We know buddy ,parker,mglynn will fly the flag. The rest we need to get some c@#t about them

Then why didn't they in the GF?

 

[Punts]

Mal will be a massive loss but geez we looked for him far to often in the end , stupid handpasses even if he was on his non preferred etc etc all the time. Clarko , Ross always new to put someone on Mal as he was our go to man of HB , might be a blessing but loosing an All Aus will still hurt imo

 

[melbournehammer]

Then why didn't they in the GF?

They were shell shocked.

I have said before we were soft. I still dont think that was the problem, although it didnt help. The problem was we couldnt get near the ball. Even in the first quarter the inside fifties were ridiculous.

There are a lot of people here far too forgiving of the 2013 effort in the pf. it was merely another example of our midfield getting pulverised when another team put on the pressure and our game plan of bringing 16 players inside fifty is counter productive because there is nowhere to go when we do win the bloody thing. and we win the stoppages inside fifty, get the ball back up to centre wing and lose it all over again.

And we tried to put all the pressure on the ball player in the centre and they just flicked it out of the contest and we had five guys inside and nothing outside. Then we told our players to find a man and their better players just destroyed their opponent.

But in both cases it all started from their ability to win the contested ball and then use it so much better than we did

And Parker's lack of pace was ruthlessly exploited by the hawks. some of you really do need to watch the game again. Just watch goodes and parker and how the hawks kept rolling players onto them and running away from them. I love parker. The guy is a serious footballer. but they knew how to play him.

 

[swansfan51]

There are a lot of people here far too forgiving of the 2013 effort in the pf. it was merely another example of our midfield getting pulverised when another team put on the pressure

100% accurate. But when this was brought up we heard that it was a one-off and was due to our tired midfield, rather than addressing the underlying problem.

What's happening this time? We're again hearing that it was a one-off because our team was fantastic in most of the other rounds of the year.

 

[Superstar swan]

100% accurate. But when this was brought up we heard that it was a one-off and was due to our tired midfield, rather than addressing the underlying problem.

What's happening this time? We're again hearing that it was a one-off because our team was fantastic in most of the other rounds of the year.

I genuinely believe that the problem was in our heads. I hate to say it about our club but the players were playing red hot footy in the finals and they walked into the mcg expecting to walk out with a flag pretty easily. The win was their right and it cost them deeply

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

100% accurate. But when this was brought up we heard that it was a one-off and was due to our tired midfield, rather than addressing the underlying problem.

What's happening this time? We're again hearing that it was a one-off because our team was fantastic in most of the other rounds of the year.

Because if the midfield were that s**t we wouldnt of won 13 in a row and finish minor premiers.

I dont know what happened on GF day but i figure it was a mixture of everything more importantly them being far to good.

 

[alanlau34]

I genuinely believe that the problem was in our heads. I hate to say it about our club but the players were playing red hot footy in the finals and they walked into the mcg expecting to walk out with a flag pretty easily. The win was their right and it cost them deeply

It would be a lot of this, but maybe the Swans just forgot that Grand Final footy is different. They were coming off their best regular season performance, and ready to let their footy do the talking. Then Hawthorn showed up with a lot of mongrel and clamped us down. Happy to give away free kicks just to rough us up, but of course they never got called on it.

If we had played any other team, say Port, we probably would have won.

Hopefully it changes the mindset up a bit, don't mind going for the man on occasion. No more Mr Nice Guys!

 

[Vin Rogue]

They were shell shocked.

I have said before we were soft. I still dont think that was the problem, although it didnt help. The problem was we couldnt get near the ball. Even in the first quarter the inside fifties were ridiculous.

There are a lot of people here far too forgiving of the 2013 effort in the pf. it was merely another example of our midfield getting pulverised when another team put on the pressure and our game plan of bringing 16 players inside fifty is counter productive because there is nowhere to go when we do win the bloody thing. and we win the stoppages inside fifty, get the ball back up to centre wing and lose it all over again.

And we tried to put all the pressure on the ball player in the centre and they just flicked it out of the contest and we had five guys inside and nothing outside. Then we told our players to find a man and their better players just destroyed their opponent.

But in both cases it all started from their ability to win the contested ball and then use it so much better than we did

And Parker's lack of pace was ruthlessly exploited by the hawks. some of you really do need to watch the game again. Just watch goodes and parker and how the hawks kept rolling players onto them and running away from them. I love parker. The guy is a serious footballer. but they knew how to play him.

Don't really have a problem with Goodes and Parker being slow in a foot race. Footy is not only about winning footraces. ( Jetta for example wins most footraces. And so does Isaac Smith, but he was one of the rare ones where we actually had a "man on man win" on the day) We failed to win the pill ( strengths of Parker and Goodes )and then we coughed it up when we did win a possession. Hawthorn can run off our slow players all day, but it counts for nought if we have possession. Ultimately, I am in your camp, because it became our inability to win the contested ball which killed us. Lewis, Hodge and Mitchell - none of them particularly fast in a footrace, tore us to bits. Cunningham and Bird on Lewis and Hodge as run withs, and roll the dice with Parker on Mitchell. And plan B so that Kennedy is not our only extractor. Pyke won the taps but McEvoy provided the screen for Lewis.

 

[bungee]

Stats for the day

Over the past ten years Hawks have won 149 games, Swans have won 148. Swans have played in 9 finals series, Hawks 8. Both have played 4 GF's, Hawks for 3, Swans for 2. Had we won that one GF the results would have been reversed (with an extra finals series up our sleeve still).

Remember though, Hawks have had their premiership window open (to hang out their poo & wee undies) for 4 years and ours for just 3.

We're not done with them yet.

 

[Vin Rogue]

Stats for the day

Over the past ten years Hawks have won 149 games, Swans have won 148. Swans have played in 9 finals series, Hawks 8. Both have played 4 GF's, Hawks for 3, Swans for 2. Had we won that one GF the results would have been reversed (with an extra finals series up our sleeve still).

Remember though, Hawks have had their premiership window open (to hang out their poo & wee undies) for 4 years and ours for just 3.

We're not done with them yet.

Ain't it funny how a beautiful set of numbers can get the juices back flowing again.Hard to dispute, so when we hold that Cup aloft next time, I hope to hell it's before the dirty nappy team - because that would soil the beauty of your numbers.

 

[MickyG]

Ain't it funny how a beautiful set of numbers can get the juices back flowing again.Hard to dispute, so when we hold that Cup aloft next time, I hope to hell it's before the dirty nappy team - because that would soil the beauty of your numbers.

I want to beat them in a Prelim so there's a better class of supporter at the GF.