The Death Penalty for Chan

[Moist Biscuit]

What if they didn't know what they were doing or the consequences that go along with it?

There are lots of naive people.

That's a naive answer.
They had Been to Bali plenty of times before they were caught in 2006. Anybody that goes to Bali to traffic drugs will know what the consequences are, anybody that says differently is lying.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

I don't have sympathy for those two blokes , they smuggled drugs into Indonesia when they knew the rules over there.

 

[Taylor]

That's a naive answer.
They had Been to Bali plenty of times before they were caught in 2006. Anybody that goes to Bali to traffic drugs will know what the consequences are, anybody that says differently is lying.

There is very little room for deviation from your set view on all people in that situation.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yeah me and you both mate! It's hard to have sympathy for a convicted drug trafficker.

Exactly, you do the crime you do the punishment. Honestly is really that simple. I feel for their families but these drug traffickers knew the risks and they still acted.

 

[rdhopkins2]

Indonesian officials have stated they will not allow another appeal. The execution date could be set for a couple of weeks from now possibly.

 

[Bosun]

What if they didn't know what they were doing or the consequences that go along with it?

There are lots of naive people.

Despite the fact that they did know, it is one's responsibility to research and understand laws and customs of foreign countries you are visiting, it is no excuse.

 

[Taylor]

Despite the fact that they did know, it is one's responsibility to research and understand laws and customs of foreign countries you are visiting, it is no excuse.

I'm only concerned that some people might be sanitizing the execution in their own mind by telling themselves they knew what they were doing, they knew the risks, they were risking the system for a buck etc etc.

Discounting any condition, they must fall into the boundaries set by the person holding the opinion.

I guess I've seen enough easily convinced idiots, ultimately taken advantage of, run into trouble they didn't know was coming and being an easily convinced idiot isn't grounds, in my view, for the harshest punishment.

 

[Bosun]

I'm only concerned that some people might be sanitizing the execution in their own mind by telling themselves they knew what they were doing, they knew the risks, they were risking the system for a buck etc etc.

Discounting any condition, they must fall into the boundaries set by the person holding the opinion.

I guess I've seen enough easily convinced idiots, ultimately taken advantage of, run into trouble they didn't know was coming and being an easily convinced idiot isn't grounds, in my view, for the harshest punishment.

As I said before there's a huge difference in accepting SE Asian countries having capital punishment for drug trafficking and endorsing it. Likewise ignorance of said capital punishment laws cannot be used for leniency. All in all its a s**t situation.

 

[sherb]

Barbaric practice. It belongs in the dark ages.

I'm glad it has long since been abolished in this country.

 

[shiva25]

Don't think its barbaric at all. If every country had this law there would less drugs floating around the streets which has to be a good thing. Ive seen what drug use does to people first hand and maybe if you have seen the devastation is causes you might think differently about their penalties

 

[Taylor]

Don't think its barbaric at all. If every country had this law there would less drugs floating around the streets which has to be a good thing. Ive seen what drug use does to people first hand and maybe if you have seen the devastation is causes you might think differently about their penalties

If the penalty worked then we wouldn't see it used, because it would be working.

 

[_Mike_]

What if they didn't know what they were doing or the consequences that go along with it?
There are lots of naive people.

These guys are not first time offenders according to commentary.. They have done it before and were involved in multi-million trafficking operations. Remember there are 7 others including Scott Rush who's death sentence was commuted to life. Scott was the naive kid who was walking with blinkers on.

Chan and Sukumaran are now about to pay the ultimate price for their greed. I don't wish death on anybody however if you take the risk being aware of the consequences, you have to suffer the outcome.

 

[Taylor]

These guys are not first time offenders according to commentary.. They have done it before and were involved in multi-million trafficking operations. Remember there are 7 others including Scott Rush who's death sentence was commuted to life. Scott was the naive kid who was walking with blinkers on.

Chan and Sukumaran are now about to pay the ultimate price for their greed. I don't wish death on anybody however if you take the risk being aware of the consequences, you have to suffer the outcome.

Wasn't there a local woman who was above even these two?

 

[_Mike_]

Wasn't there a local woman who was above even these two?

Not sure, I recall something along those lines early in the case against the Bali 9 being bought up in evidence. Frankly I believe that a life sentence with no possibility of parole is far harsher punishment than a bullet, but that is just my opinion.

 

[shiva25]

If the penalty worked then we wouldn't see it used, because it would be working.

I am willing to bet that with the penalty in place it has made people think twice about smuggling drugs into these types of countries. Unfortunately there are still the dumb people in this world that think that they can get away with it and are willing to take the risk.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I am willing to bet that with the penalty in place it has made people think twice about smuggling drugs into these types of countries. Unfortunately there are still the dumb people in this world that think that they can get away with it and are willing to take the risk.

There is absolutely no way of knowing that. And from (presumably, for all of us) our outside perspective, we have no idea how many 'successful' runs these drug traffickers have now, nor how it compares to 10/20/30 years ago. If shows like Border Security could also feature the people that get drugs through the screening undetected, we might have a better idea, but unfortunately, that's not practical. We only know about the ones that get caught and the inference we can draw from that is that for every one time a mule gets caught, there is likely to be several times that they are undetected. Otherwise, they would find a better way of moving the drugs.

 

[KGBeast]

I am willing to bet that with the penalty in place it has made people think twice about smuggling drugs into these types of countries.

This. You can't see how many people have decided not to smuggle drugs because of the deterrent. Saying it doesn't work because we still have drugs on the street is too simplistic.

 

[Gough]

This. You can't see how many people have decided not to smuggle drugs because of the deterrent. Saying it doesn't work because we still have drugs on the street is too simplistic.

So do you think there would be more drugs imported into Indonesia if there was no death penalty for the crime?

 

[KGBeast]

So do you think there would be more drugs imported into Indonesia if there was no death penalty for the crime?

I think there would be more people willing to take the risk. I'd rather take offense at the US or Chinas policy on the death penalty than Indonesias.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

This. You can't see how many people have decided not to smuggle drugs because of the deterrent. Saying it doesn't work because we still have drugs on the street is too simplistic.

And saying it does work because 'people are now thinking twice', based on God knows what, is completely logical?

All we know is that a shitload of people are on death row for drug trafficking offences. Eighteen countries, besides Indonesia, are represented in Indonesia's death row ('all but one' on drug-related offences). So, is complete desperation the motive, primarily, or is it more plain greed (as appeared to be the case with Chan and Sukumaran, both of whom seemed to have decent jobs), combined with an apparent belief (justified or otherwise) that it is highly unlikely that they will be caught?

 

[Power Raid]

I feel for the guys and even more for their families.

Sure everyone knows the penalty in SE Asia for drugs but 10 years has passed and the guys they are executing are very different men to the boys who committed the crimes.

No winners here.

 

[Power Raid]

The Indo president doesn't have a military background and has an issue with being perceived as weak.

This explains his hardline stance.

 

[Norwegian Blue]

The Indo president doesn't have a military background and has an issue with being perceived as weak.

This explains his hardline stance.

I also wonder if our ability to lobby him for clemency has been compromised by the Rudd government's stupid bugging of the previous president's wife's phone.

 

[shiva25]

There is absolutely no way of knowing that. And from (presumably, for all of us) our outside perspective, we have no idea how many 'successful' runs these drug traffickers have now, nor how it compares to 10/20/30 years ago. If shows like Border Security could also feature the people that get drugs through the screening undetected, we might have a better idea, but unfortunately, that's not practical. We only know about the ones that get caught and the inference we can draw from that is that for every one time a mule gets caught, there is likely to be several times that they are undetected. Otherwise, they would find a better way of moving the drugs.

Of course theres ways of knowing mate. Seriously you would have to be downright stupid to traffic any of these drugs into countries that have the death penalty and most people with half a brain would think twice about doing so into Indonesia where the risk is too great. Mate as soon as you get off the plane theres drug squads with dogs sniffing about as well as in the baggage area so there would little if any baggage that would get through undetected these days. Ive been there and seen how tight security is over there when you get off the plane. Chan and his mates were silly to think they could get away with it but to say that for every mule that gets caught theres a number that don't its quite ridiculous cause its just not worth the risk

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Of course theres ways of knowing mate. Seriously you would have to be downright stupid to traffic any of these drugs into countries that have the death penalty and most people with half a brain would think twice about doing so into Indonesia where the risk is too great. Mate as soon as you get off the plane theres drug squads with dogs sniffing about as well as in the baggage area so there would little if any baggage that would get through undetected these days. Ive been there and seen how tight security is over there when you get off the plane. Chan and his mates were silly to think they could get away with it but to say that for every mule that gets caught theres a number that don't its quite ridiculous cause its just not worth the risk

I'm sorry, I hadn't realised that you've been to Bali, making you an expert on the supply network of drugs between here and there.

You have completely missed the point. We don't hear about the people that aren't caught. Here's what Sukumaran had to say:

"Well, basically a friend of mine that I went to uni with asked me to come to a dinner and asked me if I wanted to join a gang. I sort of laughed at that. I was never involved in this in high school, yeah. I was, like, yeah, I'll come to dinner, sitting around dinner, they were talking about all this type of stuff. It was kind of funny to me, like, they pay for dinner and the nightclub afterwards and stuff like that so I was like "Yeah"........ it's just the lifestyle, all the people that were living, you know you want to be like those people, get the girls like those people, and I was hoping to buy a car, hoping to start a business. Those are the sort of the things like I didn't see, like, myself working in the mail room for the next 50 years of my life. I thought "No, I can't do this", then you see all these people like in night clubs with nice BMWs, and nice Mercedes and there's always chicks there, and they was buying drinks for everyone and you think "****", how do you do this on a mail room salary."

He knew people that he believed had been successful doing the same thing that he was attempting to do. And they were certainly throwing money around like they were. Brian Chambers made several successful drug runs before being caught. It's not hard to see how that would help convince Barlow to do what he did. And part of the reason they were caught was because they took crazy risks.

We can talk about the penalties and the scary dogs as much as you like. But if I personally knew people that had avoided detection time and again, maybe I wouldn't see it as being as foolproof as it may appear. Drug mules clearly must be getting through all the time. Otherwise a different distribution network would have been established, as I'm assuming most SE Asian drug syndicates are not happy to be losing kilos of smack at a time. And every time someone is caught, that increases the chances of the people further up the chain being captured. You know, if we were assuming that everything is above board.