No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[Lance Uppercut]

yep, any information that was with held was for the interim report, and most probably at the direct request of the AFL, which Aurora would have done to ensure she got here champagne rock star treatment from them.

In the tribunal ASADA are bound by certain obligations, including full disclosure. They are not with holding key evidence, they are not wasting time just to be spiteful or to get last minute deals. They are legal professionals working within a legal environment overseen by ex judges who would spot any bullshit and wouldn't stand for anything.

Everyone just needs to take a chill pill. It's almost over.

 

[DonsRule]

yep, any information that was with held was for the interim report, and most probably at the direct request of the AFL, which Aurora would have done to ensure she got here champagne rock star treatment from them.

In the tribunal ASADA are bound by certain obligations, including full disclosure. They are not with holding key evidence, they are not wasting time just to be spiteful or to get last minute deals. They are legal professionals working within a legal environment overseen by ex judges who would spot any bullshit and wouldn't stand for anything.

Everyone just needs to take a chill pill. It's almost over.

Yep, it the players lawyers saw ASADA wasting time, they'd be on it and object. There are some very capable legals involved,

 

[MarkG]

Yep, it the players lawyers saw ASADA wasting time, they'd be on it and object. There are some very capable legals involved,

Have you got any evidence that these guys are capable? Capable of what?

Why did they question whether TB4 was banned? If I was a judge, I would be thinking "hell, they may have been administered this stuff to have asked this question."

What great advice did the players receive when they were led like lambs to the slaughter to be interviewed by the AFL and ASADA (acting outside their jurisdiction).

Why did the players association announce that training at Essendon was like working at an asbestos site?

Why did lawyers representing Hird and EFC get crushed by the NSW ASADA representatives when they attempted to declare the investigation illegal and had us all believing this was the case.

Why did they even fight the case to determine if ASADA acted legally. This prolonged the case and makes many believe that they are guilty.

What legal advice were they given when they self reported, when contrary advice was given to Cronulla by NSW legals.

Are you a lawyer? Give me any reason why we should be hopeful of a favourable outcome.

I trust that Hird said nothing banned and Dank adhered to this. Please convince me that these lawyers are up to it, and that the NSW counterparts will not make them look sub par once again.

 

[Doss]

I am not sure what exactly your beef is with Victorian legals and why you hold it so stridently, but it's palpable nonetheless.

 

[Donakebab]

So I haven't read an article/thread/anything regarding all this s**t in months and have nfi what is going on. Can anyone give a super quick summary of where we're at?

 

[lysp]

Patrick Keane ‏@AFL_PKeane
The Tribunal is now adjourned until 16 February 2015. End of Statement from Anti-Doping Tribunal Chairman David Jones.

Looks like things are coming to a conclusion..

 

[rumply]

Looks like things are coming to a conclusion..

so it adjourns around the 18th feb to make it's decision, so were looking at around 6 weeksish to get a decision ~ mid March

 

[Doss]

so it adjourns around the 18th feb to make it's decision, so were looking at around 6 weeksish to get a decision ~ mid March

Just in the nick of time for the start of the proper season.

 

[cymarak]

so it adjourns around the 18th feb to make it's decision, so were looking at around 6 weeksish to get a decision ~ mid March

Where does the 6 weeks come from ?

 

[Dan Cooper]

I wonder how much of that timeframe is subject to change, dependent on what is said at 2.15pm tomorrow?

 

[rumply]

Where does the 6 weeks come from ?

3 weeks to the 18th feb & 3 weeks for the tribunal to reach it's decision (which I heard soemwhere as an estimate of how long they would need)

 

[cymarak]

I wonder how much of that timeframe is subject to change, dependent on what is said at 2.15pm tomorrow?

You'd think that timeline would be unaffected if Hird loses, or if he wins 'small', but if he wins 'big' - i.e. if the court says much or all of the stuff ASADA gathered is invalid and unusable - then that timeline would go right out the window.

Worst-case scenario for the tribunal is that they have to stop the tribunal in its tracks completely, and if ASADA wanted to have another crack, eventually convene a fresh tribunal with a fresh panel - the 'old' panel would be tainted by hearing too much inadmissible evidence I would have thought.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I'm sure it's just coincidence, but the timing of this announcement and the Hirdict tomorrow is interesting somehow

 

[carnthedons]

I'm sure it's just coincidence, but the timing of this announcement and the Hirdict tomorrow is interesting somehow

Maybe the admissibility of evidence questioning was insurance in case the appeal is successful, I've come to the realisation that we can't take anything at face value.

I don't believe in coincidences any more.

 

[cymarak]

I'm sure it's just coincidence, but the timing of this announcement and the Hirdict tomorrow is interesting somehow

It avoids the spectre of everyone in the tribunal regularly hitting refresh on their phones around announcement time tomorrow to see whether they need to keep working or can leave early for the weekend.

 

[cymarak]

Even if the tribunal has stated that it's not bound by the normal rules of evidence, presumably a court could still order that the tribunal must disregard certain evidence ?

 

[Dan Cooper]

I'm sure it's just coincidence, but the timing of this announcement and the Hirdict tomorrow is interesting somehow

You beat me to the punch. I had exactly the same feeling.

 

[boncer34]

You beat me to the punch. I had exactly the same feeling.

I'm missing something

 

[cymarak]

I see 3 broad possibilities tomorrow with The Hirdict:

1. Hird loses - joint investigation deemed all hunky-dory

• odds-on favourite
• no impact on the current tribunal case
• Caro et al launch another round of Hird-related negative stories
• we wait to see whether Hird appeals the loss (to the High Court ?)

2. Hird wins 'small' - joint investigation deemed illegal but court doesn't grant any relief

• less likely than possibility 1, but more likely than 3
• probably no official impact on the tribunal, but may influence tribunal member and / or AFL thinking
• would increase the chances of any guilty verdict being appealed
• this would be a Clayton's victory - the win you have when you don't really have a win ...

3. Hird wins 'big' - joint investigation deemed illegal and court says evidence collected from it is inadmissible

• very unlikely
• current tribunal case is dead in the water
• ASADA would have to either start the investigation again, restart the SCN / infraction notice process with just the evidence they are allowed to use, or give up and go home

This is all IMO obviously, and yes, this is a generalisation that doesn't cover every possibility - it's possible to win 'medium' for example.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

If the panel rule in favour of players of not being guilty then it stops end of story full stop. If Asada appeal the decision then the government needs to step in they lost,stiff ******* s**t.

 

[windyhill]

Is there a chance the club allowed him to remain coach pending the outcome of the appeal?

That's how I read it.

 

[MarkG]

That's how I read it.

A lot of opposition supporters and press put Hird and Little into same basket.

My opinion is that Little has been a pillar of strength. He has given a lot to the club that he loves in time of need.

Thoughts?

 

[windyhill]

A lot of opposition supporters and press put Hird and Little into same basket.

My opinion is that Little has been a pillar of strength. He has given a lot to the club that he loves in time of need.

Thoughts?

Little has been v.v. good under extreme pressure.

 

[I Remember Bluey]

That's how I read it.

Just can't see it happening, imagine:

Hirds case thrown out

Essendon sack Hird

Players revolt.

Media feast on carcass/s.

More likely:

Players banned.

Hird sacked.

Players accept sacking.

 

[cymarak]

Hard to know how much of what's come from Little over the last couple of years has been Little's doing / Little's decisions / etc., and how much is him just being the official mouthpiece of the board, so I find it a bit early to really judge him properly.

I think some situations were handled poorly - e.g. the Tania Hird 'crisis' - but I'm not sure if that was down to poor media skills, poor judgement, or being painted into a corner by others.