BRODIE MARTIN

[AFC979810]

Hasn't transferred to well but BM stats on left with Dmac on right. There's actually not a lot of difference with Dmac higher disposal eff reflective of going by hand more than foot. Also BM % suffered a bit through some inaccurate goal kicking.

By and large they are quite similar in size, age and stats, with the main difference being 1 has played 124 games and 1 just 35, and 1 is on a 4 year 1.6m deal and 1 struggles year by year.

And that's a common position - I'm just wondering how it's supported. Given Martin has played 35 games and MacKay 124. I can see an argument that having played just 35 games there's scope for BM to improve - any player can improve after just 35 games.

How does a midfielder who has played 124 games still have upside? What's left to see that we havent already seen?

Fair dinkum he will be coming up for 200 games and we will still be discussing his upcoming break out year.

I don't think that anyone on here is arguing that DMac is a front runner for All Australian. Whilst there are some similarities in stats - I think DMac still has the edge (and a lot more upside).

For me personally - the big differences are:

1. Use of the football. Get Mackay out into space and give him the football and he is an absolute elite user of the football. Has the ability to deliver the ball perfectly. I have not seen this from Martin. He isn't a horrible user - but isn't up to the standard of Mackay.

2. Pace. Mackay has it. Martin doesn't.

3. Durability. Once again Mackay has proven himself to be durable. Martin is the exact opposite. He has managed 35 games in 7 seasons.

Also - there should be a compelling case as to the reasoning behind replacing a starter player with a backup. I just can't see any reasoning as to why Martin should get the gig.

Can anyone explain to me what attribute he has that is elite? His effort cannot be questioned. I don't think he has any particular glaring weaknesses, but for the life of me cannot see any elite qualities to his football.

 

[Tex200]

I don't think that anyone on here is arguing that DMac is a front runner for All Australian. Whilst there are some similarities in stats - I think DMac still has the edge (and a lot more upside).

For me personally - the big differences are:

1. Use of the football. Get Mackay out into space and give him the football and he is an absolute elite user of the football. Has the ability to deliver the ball perfectly. I have not seen this from Martin. He isn't a horrible user - but isn't up to the standard of Mackay.

2. Pace. Mackay has it. Martin doesn't.

3. Durability. Once again Mackay has proven himself to be durable. Martin is the exact opposite. He has managed 35 games in 7 seasons.

Also - there should be a compelling case as to the reasoning behind replacing a starter player with a backup. I just can't see any reasoning as to why Martin should get the gig.

Can anyone explain to me what attribute he has that is elite? His effort cannot be questioned. I don't think he has any particular glaring weaknesses, but for the life of me cannot see any elite qualities to his football.

I can't offer you anything regarding BM that's elite - but nor can I for MacKay.

 

[Elite Crow]

I don't think that anyone on here is arguing that DMac is a front runner for All Australian. Whilst there are some similarities in stats - I think DMac still has the edge (and a lot more upside).

For me personally - the big differences are:

1. Use of the football. Get Mackay out into space and give him the football and he is an absolute elite user of the football. Has the ability to deliver the ball perfectly. I have not seen this from Martin. He isn't a horrible user - but isn't up to the standard of Mackay.

2. Pace. Mackay has it. Martin doesn't.

3. Durability. Once again Mackay has proven himself to be durable. Martin is the exact opposite. He has managed 35 games in 7 seasons.

Also - there should be a compelling case as to the reasoning behind replacing a starter player with a backup. I just can't see any reasoning as to why Martin should get the gig.

Can anyone explain to me what attribute he has that is elite? His effort cannot be questioned. I don't think he has any particular glaring weaknesses, but for the life of me cannot see any elite qualities to his football.

I'd hardly call Dmack durable, especially the last 12 months. How many hammys now?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

1. Use of the football. Get Mackay out into space and give him the football and he is an absolute elite user of the football. Has the ability to deliver the ball perfectly. I have not seen this from Martin. He isn't a horrible user - but isn't up to the standard of Mackay.

I'd question elite. I think that similar to Vince, the gloss and memories of 2009 stick in the mind. Mackay is a poor user of the football. Looks pretty doing it, but even simple 20m chip passes to leading forwards sail over their heads.

Martin's goal kicking in 2014 stopped his season from being rated as good. A shame and he never had those problems at Sturt. Mackay didn't have the same problems in front of the sticks... because he never gets the ball within cooee of the goals.

He is a wingman who provides absolute nothing forward of centre. Is only good for the occasional mop up handball receive.

I'd actually say that given the talent he displayed early compared to his output once he matured that Mackay is the worst footballer ever to pull on a Crows guernsey. Sure, plenty of players have played worse football for us than Mackay but they were all worse going in. Mackay looked like being a blue chip mid at one stage. Is barely a plodder now.

2. Pace. Mackay has it. Martin doesn't.

???

Mackay has no pace. Certainly has never run away from a player, evaded an opponent, dodged a tackle, broken the lines or provided any penetration at all. We think he's quick because in that 2009 final vs Collingwood he was good and nearllllly kicked that goal on the run. The 2009 season was his Stevens final. We overlooked two years of concussion ravaged abysmal form from Stevo because of that one game. By contract's end, Mackay will have banked nine years of football because of that season.

3. Durability. Once again Mackay has proven himself to be durable. Martin is the exact opposite. He has managed 35 games in 7 seasons.

I'll grant this one

Availability is no doubt Mackay's biggest strength

Also - there should be a compelling case as to the reasoning behind replacing a starter player with a backup. I just can't see any reasoning as to why Martin should get the gig.

Can anyone explain to me what attribute he has that is elite? His effort cannot be questioned. I don't think he has any particular glaring weaknesses, but for the life of me cannot see any elite qualities to his football.

More courageous, better mark, stronger, can side step an opponent, sell candy, takes the game on, gets the ball in the front half. Doesn't get rag-dolled like a junior colt called up at late notice to the seniors to fill in like Mackay does if anyone lays a fingernail on him.

That aside, I'd prefer Grigg played ahead of Martin or Mackay.

The Blonde Bombshells that we (me included) were so excited about initially - Vince, Mackay, van Berlo, Reilly - have collectively delivered an absolute pile of meh and epitomise everything that has gone wrong with the Crows.

 

[Schulzycrow]

DABM...think some of your arguments may be a bit strong...if we still had the Martin of the first two times he played the Saints then it would be no contest.

Mackay did kick 11 goals, equal 8th with Brodie Smith...Danger only kicked 17...just sayin. Mackay may not get it in front of goals much, 11.7 to Martin's 8.15 so I wouldn't be defending Mackay as an elite goal kicker...Walker, Danger and Betts both kicked 22 points, JJ 26.
Effective disposals has Dmac nearly 100 in front of Martin and for me that tells more of a tale 270 to 175.

Not defending either as I would like to see our wingers kicking 20+ goals.
BM does gut run both ways but kicked only 8 and missed some sodas that may have got us wins if he'd kicked them.
Grigg was my big disappointment for last year, his place in the side as our safety officer with his high vis didn't help his cause, haven't heard a lot how he is travelling so far this preseason and I don't have him in my starting 22 atm and Dmac and Martin are in the maybe aisle atm.

If I had to choose...it would be Mackay....sorry Brodie...love your work.

 

[AFC979810]

I'd hardly call Dmack durable, especially the last 12 months. How many hammys now?

Disagree. Over the past 3 years has played 61 out of 69 games. Thats durable.

 

[AFC979810]

I'd question elite. I think that similar to Vince, the gloss and memories of 2009 stick in the mind. Mackay is a poor user of the football. Looks pretty doing it, but even simple 20m chip passes to leading forwards sail over their heads.

Martin's goal kicking in 2014 stopped his season from being rated as good. A shame and he never had those problems at Sturt. Mackay didn't have the same problems in front of the sticks... because he never gets the ball within cooee of the goals.

He is a wingman who provides absolute nothing forward of centre. Is only good for the occasional mop up handball receive.

Well - the first point I would dispute is that Mackay never does anything forward of centre. Had more inside 50's per game than Martin, had double the goal assists of Martin despite only playing two more games. Lets not act like Martin was a shark inside 50 - he only had 5 more scoring opportunities than Mackay. Martin - 8 goals 15 points. Mackay 11 goals 7 behinds.

Mackay is a great user of the ball. Have a look at these clips (none are from 2009).


2nd minute - from 2010


From 2012.


From 2013.


1 minute in - From 2014.

-
Go to 5:58 - From 2014

I'd actually say that given the talent he displayed early compared to his output once he matured that Mackay is the worst footballer ever to pull on a Crows guernsey. Sure, plenty of players have played worse football for us than Mackay but they were all worse going in. Mackay looked like being a blue chip mid at one stage. Is barely a plodder now.

Huh? Worst footballer to play for the Adelaide Crows? C'mon man. I would say the fact that he was taken with pick 48 in the 2006 draft and has played 124 games of AFL and is only 26 is a massive credit to him. You want to look at worst footballers to play for us - you need to look at very talented guys who gave us nothing - Angwin, Meesen, Watts, Jerico, McKernan.

???

Mackay has no pace. Certainly has never run away from a player, evaded an opponent, dodged a tackle, broken the lines or provided any penetration at all. We think he's quick because in that 2009 final vs Collingwood he was good and nearllllly kicked that goal on the run. The 2009 season was his Stevens final. We overlooked two years of concussion ravaged abysmal form from Stevo because of that one game. By contract's end, Mackay will have banked nine years of football because of that season.

To your first sentence. Have a look at the clips posted above you will see evasion, running away from a player, breaking lines and penetration. With Mackay - the issue has never been if he can do these things. Its whether he does them enough. Now Martin on the other hand - I don't think he has the ability to do these things.

I'll grant this one

Availability is no doubt Mackay's biggest strength

With regards to durability - its not just the availability of Mackay. Its that injuries have taken away the one thing that would have given Brodie Martin a chance to be a quality AFL footballer. He was never highly regarded as a junior. We took a chance on him in the rookie draft because he was lightning fast. Unfortunately his two knee Reco's have taken that away from him and we are left with a guy who has enough skills to dominate at SANFL but no real weapons at AFL level.

More courageous, better mark, stronger, can side step an opponent, sell candy, takes the game on, gets the ball in the front half. Doesn't get rag-dolled like a junior colt called up at late notice to the seniors to fill in like Mackay does if anyone lays a fingernail on him.

I will give you that Martin is more courageous, a better mark and stronger. None of these are really characteristics needed for an outside run and carry winger though.

You are also correct that Mackay gets rag dolled. Its part of the issue. He needs to stay outside more. He has all the physical attributes to be a Stephen Hill, Danyle Pearce, Bradley Hill....We need to find a way to utilise him.

Mackay has still shown glimpses since 2009 that if he can get the ball on the outside he can be damaging. One of our biggest challenges is getting the ball into the hands of our quality users - Smith, Mackay, Jaensch, Sloane.

That aside, I'd prefer Grigg played ahead of Martin or Mackay.

I wouldn't be upset by this. Grigg certainly has the talent. I just worry about whether he works hard enough. Was widely tipped to be a top 10 pick entering his draft year - yet slipped to pick 41 in the 2011 draft. Was given 5 games at the end of 2013 and performed well despite the weak opposition. Just didn't kick it off in 2014. Much of that has been attributed to Sando's use of him, but how much was due to his work ethic?

The Blonde Bombshells that we (me included) were so excited about initially - Vince, Mackay, van Berlo, Reilly - have collectively delivered an absolute pile of meh and epitomise everything that has gone wrong with the Crows.

Once again I disagree here. The only one who hasn't lived up to where he was taken in the draft is Reilly.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

If Martin makes and stays in our best 22 then we are in serious trouble

even after last seadon the club still only offered a 1 year extention which is a clear indication that he is not viewed by the club as best 22

 

[spenze]

I think the biggest indictment on Mackay is he hasn't torn a game apart, not so much in Brownlow voting but in output. He has had some good games, you can see that in the statistics...high 20 disposals and a couple of sausage rolls but no four goal game, no 14 or 15 possies in a quarter. I do wonder if some of the blame of that lies with Sando and the coaching unit of the last three years making him a hard tackling wingman ( his tackling was up 400% on previous years) and our game plan which seemed to be fixated on choosing the 4th or 5th option when bringing the ball out of defence. None of that combines to give him a licence to run and create and with his DE hovering at 80%, he is who we should be using to target forwards, not the scattergun feet of Sloane and Dangerfield

 

[dylan123]

BM does gut run both ways but kicked only 8 and missed some sodas that may have got us wins if he'd kicked them.

That's the thing, had he nailed some of these kickable shots, then he would have put us in winning positions. Something that Mackay hasn't really done, Brodie seems to get in all the right places, whether it's filling a hole in the backline or going up forward where he seems to read the play quite well. What lets him down is his finishing abilities. To be honest, I've got more faith in him fixing that up - taking the safe option in the backline after plugging a hole and then straightening up his kicking compared to Mackay suddenly becoming an outside midfielder who does what we all wish outside midfielders to do.

Couple of games we saw Brodie start big when the rest of the team came out flat - the Brisbane one comes to mind. How often is it that we see Mackay stand up when the rest of our side is struggling? We're constantly talking about him being a finisher and basically just blaming it on the rest of our team not dominating enough to make him look good. We've got an outside midfielder that's supposed to be a finisher who has never received a single brownlow vote in his 124 game career, that speaks volumes to me.

Also not sure what to make of the TOG stats in which Mackay plays roughly 11% more a game then Martin. At first I figured it was because he was the starting sub for two games and subbed off for another at the end of the season when he hurt his ankle but Mackay was also subbed off twice himself. Either Martin doesn't have the tank he should (possibly the style he plays given he just runs hard from one side of the ground to the other) or Sando didn't back him over the other 20-21 guys on the field and had him on the bench more.


Again, I'd like to see what someone like Grigg could bring to the table over either of them, but h2h, I don't exactly see Mackay being a great length ahead of Martin at this stage.

If Martin makes and stays in our best 22 then we are in serious trouble

even after last seadon the club still only offered a 1 year extention which is a clear indication that he is not viewed by the club as best 22

Hate reading people say this.

Everyone is making the assumption that Martin won't improve as a player from what he did in 2014. Whilst he's 26 years old, he's only played 35 games at AFL level and this year was the first in his career that he's been given a consistent crack at this level. He'll finally have something to work on which he hopefully has been in the pre season.

Those same people that make the assumption that we'll get exactly what we got from Martin in 2014 again this year are the ones that seem to predict/expect big things from Mackay.


Of course Martin only got a 1 year extension as he should have, he's a 26 year old injury prone player that's only played 35 games and would be ranked in that 20-30 position in terms of coming into the 22. That's the sort of deal he should be offered rather then the deals we give to the likes of Mackay. Who is going to offer Martin a multi year deal after last year given his history? No one, that's who, so why should we be offering him anything more then that? Again, it's up to him to take another step forward from his 2014 year if he wants to remain on the list in 2016, if he does then I'm sure we'll re-sign him again (1-2 year deal), if not then that's the end of his career and we move on.

 

[Tex200]

That's the thing, had he nailed some of these kickable shots, then he would have put us in winning positions. Something that Mackay hasn't really done, Brodie seems to get in all the right places, whether it's filling a hole in the backline or going up forward where he seems to read the play quite well. What lets him down is his finishing abilities. To be honest, I've got more faith in him fixing that up - taking the safe option in the backline after plugging a hole and then straightening up his kicking compared to Mackay suddenly becoming an outside midfielder who does what we all wish outside midfielders to do.

Couple of games we saw Brodie start big when the rest of the team came out flat - the Brisbane one comes to mind. How often is it that we see Mackay stand up when the rest of our side is struggling? We're constantly talking about him being a finisher and basically just blaming it on the rest of our team not dominating enough to make him look good. We've got an outside midfielder that's supposed to be a finisher who has never received a single brownlow vote in his 124 game career, that speaks volumes to me.

Also not sure what to make of the TOG stats in which Mackay plays roughly 11% more a game then Martin. At first I figured it was because he was the starting sub for two games and subbed off for another at the end of the season when he hurt his ankle but Mackay was also subbed off twice himself. Either Martin doesn't have the tank he should (possibly the style he plays given he just runs hard from one side of the ground to the other) or Sando didn't back him over the other 20-21 guys on the field and had him on the bench more.


Again, I'd like to see what someone like Grigg could bring to the table over either of them, but h2h, I don't exactly see Mackay being a great length ahead of Martin at this stage.


Hate reading people say this.

Everyone is making the assumption that Martin won't improve as a player from what he did in 2014. Whilst he's 26 years old, he's only played 35 games at AFL level and this year was the first in his career that he's been given a consistent crack at this level. He'll finally have something to work on which he hopefully has been in the pre season.

Those same people that make the assumption that we'll get exactly what we got from Martin in 2014 again this year are the ones that seem to predict/expect big things from Mackay.


Of course Martin only got a 1 year extension as he should have, he's a 26 year old injury prone player that's only played 35 games and would be ranked in that 20-30 position in terms of coming into the 22. That's the sort of deal he should be offered rather then the deals we give to the likes of Mackay. Who is going to offer Martin a multi year deal after last year given his history? No one, that's who, so why should we be offering him anything more then that? Again, it's up to him to take another step forward from his 2014 year if he wants to remain on the list in 2016, if he does then I'm sure we'll re-sign him again (1-2 year deal), if not then that's the end of his career and we move on.

This is the crux of the MacKay mystery.

No one can make room for the possibility that a player who already improved markedly last year, could improve some more, especially given he's played just 35 games.

But still, still we have this obsession with MacKay that he's going to have a break out year like some 1st year kid.

I agree Martin has far greater scope for improvement than MacKay

 

[Tobster]

IMHO I believe MacKay has certainly shown a lot more in his time at the AFC than Martin. Just comparing their age to games then Mackay is streaks ahead (which I accept this stat gives no indication of performance/x-factor/potential but does show their ability to get into the best 22 and if you don't then you are most likely going to be delisted. Albeit ruckmen usually have more leniency to remain on the list when looking at this stat but both aren't that).

Mackay: 26yo / 124 games
Martin: 26yo / 35 games

Only a gut feeling but I think at seasons end we may see the following delistings (unless Martin has a blinder of a year): Reilly (age), Pods (age), Martin (output/potential), Wright (output/potential). Out of these four and if this happens then Wright (not Martin) will be very, very unlucky. But that's what happens with list management (Ruthless). Wright may be kept if Thompson is pushed to retire (I don't believe he will ever choose to go). At this stage then Mackay is likely to be kept as a depth player. I base this on him not having displayed a lot of grit to push through when things aren't going his way on the field (so far). By all reports this is one area that Walshy holds in very high regard, eg. competitiveness, and therefore may keep Mackay out of the best 22 but his past performance of 124 games will keep him on the list.

Having said all of the above, which is only crystal ball gazing and hopefully total crap (eg. they both have awesome seasons and we win the cup), I would much rather see Atkins given a go at either of their roles (outside run/half forward). For me Atkins would preferably be an outside runner (instead of MacKay), while Cameron remains as the defensive HF role and uses his speed and tackling ability (instead of Martin). Excitement!!!

 

[cmndstab]

I'd be surprised if Wright is gone this year. There's more deadwood to cut before we get to him, not to mention some late draft selections from the last 2-3 years that may not have their initial contracts renewed once they expire.

 

[RodnyDangrfield]

I'd be surprised if Wright is gone this year. There's more deadwood to cut before we get to him, not to mention some late draft selections from the last 2-3 years that may not have their initial contracts renewed once they expire.

Not to mention Wright has definite trade value I reckon. Should be played a 5th or 6th mid ala 2013 when he averaged 30 possession over the last 4 weeks or something. Could be valuable to a team like Geelong, Melbourne, Richmond or St Kilda, teams who are lacking the midfield depth in the next 2 years or so.

 

[Tobster]

Not to mention Wright has definite trade value I reckon. Should be played a 5th or 6th mid ala 2013 when he averaged 30 possession over the last 4 weeks or something. Could be valuable to a team like Geelong, Melbourne, Richmond or St Kilda, teams who are lacking the midfield depth in the next 2 years or so.

I agree that Wright has trade value. I'd even throw in a 'free bowl of soup with that' RD . I'm probably and hopefully wrong about Wright, I just think based on his past output and age profile that he may be in a bit of trouble eg. delist/trade.

Good point Stabby: In regards to deadwood from the last 2-3 years, then CEY would be the main one under the pump in my mind. But's he's still only just 22 compared to Wright's 26 years in age, though CEY's skills may just not cut the mustard and therefore may well go before Wright.

Shaw and Siggins would also be a bit concerned. I understand Shaw is coming back from surgery to mitigate any future problems with his hamstring but his kicking was always iffy and if the surgery doesn't work then...! Siggins would just want to show something this year and really push hard for selection and not just coast through the season.

God I'm missing the footy.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Wright is an interesting one. On 2012 form, he'd have plenty of trade value. Just the way he pressured opposition players and kicked crucial goals was a joy to watch. I'm just not so sure about his last two seasons. He's had some good games but lacked consistency and been dropped a couple of times. He generally has excellent goal awareness and kicks accurately at 40m, he's got a decent football brain, doesn't panic under pressure, these are good attributes in a small forward. At the same time, he's mostly a non-entity in a marking contest, isn't particularly fast or agile for his size and basically has no long kicking game. He's not a bad kick of a footy but he can't hurt the opposition from outside 50m like some players. Also he doesn't really have the power to go full-time in the middle. It's hard to say where he sits in the pecking order.

 

[1970crow]

Not saying he isn't atm. I think he has more upside than Martin thou.

Mackays played 124 games, he has no upside. His best appears better, but we haven't seen martins best yet and mackay produces his rarely. Take into account time on ground and their avge possessions evens right up. Mackay the midfielder v Martin the half forward. Mackay needs to seriously pull his finger out or he'll end up being the worst contract extension in the history of our club.

 

[Cap]

If I had to chose. Id take Martin.

 

[1970crow]

Think Mackay has been used in a defensive wingman role the past few years and is the reason why I think Walsh will allow him some more freedom to take the game on more. Don't think he will ever be the star we hope for ala Brodie Smith, but Walsh will demand more of him than Sando did imo.

Defensive wingman with less avge rebound 50's last year than Martin the half forward. Does his speed and elite leg cease to work in the opponents 50? The perception of mackay is vastly different than the reality.

 

[1970crow]

If Martin makes and stays in our best 22 then we are in serious trouble

even after last seadon the club still only offered a 1 year extention which is a clear indication that he is not viewed by the club as best 22

That's not correct. If Martin doesn't improve and stays in our best 22, then we are in trouble. No different to Mackay, he also needs to improve if he's playing in the 22. The difference is after a solid season and only 35 games in, despite his age, I think Martin has a much better chance of improvement than Mackay, who simply refuses to work hard enough to make the most of his perceived weapons.

 

[jackster83]

That's not correct. If Martin doesn't improve and stays in our best 22, then we are in trouble. No different to Mackay, he also needs to improve if he's playing in the 22. The difference is after a solid season and only 35 games in, despite his age, I think Martin has a much better chance of improvement than Mackay, who simply refuses to work hard enough to make the most of his perceived weapons.

I'd like to see Knight leapfrog both of them. Has the speed, workrate and the skillset, just needs a few breakout games in the NAB Challenge/early SANFL season.

 

[Mismatched]

This is the crux of the MacKay mystery.

No one can make room for the possibility that a player who already improved markedly last year, could improve some more, especially given he's played just 35 games.

But still, still we have this obsession with MacKay that he's going to have a break out year like some 1st year kid.

I agree Martin has far greater scope for improvement than MacKay

I just can't agree that Martin showed improvement. All that happened is he got games and didn't roll his ankle or pull a hammy every 3rd game he played. He didn't show anything to me that I didn't think he was capable of,unfortunately IMO it's nothing special, he's a depth player now nothing more.

I'm not convinced with Mackay either, however I'd be far more convinced that with a minor adjustment to how he plays his role and he could be very valuable. Operative word is "could" though, I wouldn't be persevering with either too long. 26 year old midfielders don't tend to improve terribly much.

 

[dylan123]

He seemed to find the ball more consistently as the season went on, averaging 15 touches, 1.4 tackles and kicked a total of 2.3 (5 behinds not counted due to them being in his two sub games) in his first 10 non sub games.

From rounds 17-22 (excluding his final game where he was subbed off early with the ankle injury) he averaged 19.8 disposals, 4.3 tackles and kicked a total of 6.7 in that 7 game period.


To me, he became more consistent and contributed more to the team then what he did earlier in the season and this is what I believe came due to him getting more consistent games at AFL level. Of course he's not without his own fault which has already been pointed out, but there was improvement in my eyes from what we got in his first 10 games for the season.

 

[Bacon8]

I'd rather play a solid 6 player, who is a 6, than a 2 player that has the capacity to be a 5.

One has upside... but will always be a worse player.

 

[Barneythecrab]

A lot of talk about Martin not having the pace anymore. Has anyone actually tested him themselves? I thought that there had been a reference about the new recruit Wilson being quicker than danger and Martin. I'm guessing that reference would mean he is quick?