No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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Albertross

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Only issue I have is that the other clubs had the chance to tell the AFL to let this mess be sorted out fairly and properly. Instead they told the AFL commission to end it and supported Essendon receiving whatever punishment was necessary to end the saga.

So why on earth we would feel one iota of sympathy for any other team that when provided the opportunity to do the right thing, sided with the AFL/Evil.

My empathy for all other clubs is dead because of this. You make the bed you sleep in.

And that especially goes for GC who hired Dank and Robinson, and as far as I can tell, is likley to have the ONLY player who tested positive for a banned substance and is the AFL love child. Oh did I mention that the AFL paid squillions to a Rugby player so he could allegedly buy drugs for his teammates?

Did I miss anything?

PS Welcome aboard and enjoy the ride. :)
Fair call, I completely understand your POV. I was also disappointed that other club presidents slept with the devil and sent us up that creek without a paddle. I honestly thought at the time that it was a deflection tactic taken by some other teams, so the focus remained on us as an individual club and not as a league wide problem.

As far as GC go, they should have been looked at more thoroughly at the time due to their association with Dank. Same goes for Melbourne. As far as I am aware, the only player that was in ASADAS sights from the GC was Bock and that seemed to go all quite after a while. As for Hunt, his situation is no different to Stokes from 4/5 years ago from what I know. Difference being is he supplied it to other sports people, where as Stokes supplied it to his mates.

At the end of the day, if any other team goes through what we have been through, it is the players (assuming they were duped as it's believed has happened to Essendon players), and the supporters who are affected the most by this.

I remember the days not so long ago when opposing supporters hated us for being a powerhouse club, not because they thought we were drug cheats. I want those days back.
 
Heard a rumour from someone who claims to have an inside source that 28 players will be handed bans. 6 will not. ASADA will appeal the 6 players who did not get bans and Essendon will appeal for the 28 players who did get bans

Why would ASADA appeal 6 players who are found not guilty - This makes no sense at all - Just be our luck that the 6 players are retired.
 
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I came across this forum a few weeks back as I was looking for a different place for my daily footy fix (For my own sanity I couldn't continue to read the HUN or any site associated with CW). So far I have been content to read other peoples postings as I was just happy to find a forum that didn't base their comments about the Dons current predicament purely on their hatred for the club/Hird. It has also been great to read what opposition supported think of the situation without resorting to "my club is better than yours" jibes.

Now seeing as how I am new here, I certainly don't wish to come across as disrespectful, however, I felt compelled to reply to your post. The vast majority of Suns fans, such as my family, fanatically follow another team first and foremost, but have also taken a shining to the Suns. We have watched this club grow from its infancy and genuinely hope to see them win a flag one day (just not against my team). Now, I am Bombers through and through, but being able to watch them play footy live each week is not realistic for us (once a year if we are lucky). So going to watch the Suns play enables us to watch a live game and have an emotional investment in the match. The emotions aren't the same as when the Dons win/lose, but it still feels good to ride the emotions with the rest of the supporters and club. It's kind of like a home away from home situation.

So basically I am a little disappointed that you have a desire for another club to go through what our club and supporters have had to endure for the last 2 years. If the Suns get rammed from pillar to post like Essendon have been, I fear that it could kill off a lot of their supporter base in Qld. The Suns don't have the history or fanatical supporter base to be able to survive a trial by media hate campaign like we will.

TL;DR: I'm a noob, wouldn't wish this s*** on my least favourite team (Carlton, I'm looking at you).
I don't have a problem with the Suns per se. I'm sure it is a great club. The animosity is with the AFL. I just doubt whether the AFL put both the Suns and the Dees under the same microscope as Essendon re Dank's involvement with their clubs. How they deal with a situation where, say a good number of Suns players are caught up in this, I will watch with interest.
 

Pweter

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Heard a rumour from someone who claims to have an inside source that 28 players will be handed bans. 6 will not. ASADA will appeal the 6 players who did not get bans and Essendon will appeal for the 28 players who did get bans

With respect, I call bullshit.

This person is effectively saying the club is prepared to have 28 players sit out of competition whilst going through the appeals process and with nobody knowing how long the appeals process takes, that could be the full season for all they know.
 

cymarak

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Heard a rumour from someone who claims to have an inside source that 28 players will be handed bans. 6 will not. ASADA will appeal the 6 players who did not get bans and Essendon will appeal for the 28 players who did get bans
With respect, I call bullshit.

This person is effectively saying the club is prepared to have 28 players sit out of competition whilst going through the appeals process and with nobody knowing how long the appeals process takes, that could be the full season for all they know.
I don't buy the rumour either - I don't see how the tribunal could find 28 guilty but not the other 6, given what we've seen and heard so far - but I don't see how you came to the conclusion in bold ?
 

Pweter

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I don't buy the rumour either - I don't see how the tribunal could find 28 guilty but not the other 6, given what we've seen and heard so far - but I don't see how you came to the conclusion in bold ?

For the bold, aren't players forced to sit out whilst the appeal is being carried out?
 
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Only issue I have is that the other clubs had the chance to tell the AFL to let this mess be sorted out fairly and properly. Instead they told the AFL commission to end it and supported Essendon receiving whatever punishment was necessary to end the saga.

So why on earth we would feel one iota of sympathy for any other team that when provided the opportunity to do the right thing, sided with the AFL/Evil.

My empathy for all other clubs is dead because of this. You make the bed you sleep in.

And that especially goes for GC who hired Dank and Robinson, and as far as I can tell, is likley to have the ONLY player who tested positive for a banned substance and is the AFL love child. Oh did I mention that the AFL paid squillions to a Rugby player so he could allegedly buy drugs for his teammates?

Did I miss anything?

PS Welcome aboard and enjoy the ride. :)

Pretty sure the GC members and supporters, like us at EFC, in no way invited these issues into their club. Equally the GC members and supporters had no input into their management 'siding' with the AFL in our drugz saga. In other words, they're members and supporters just like us, they're innocent of what's happening there, they love their club and they don't need this s**t.

I can understand your anger at how things have played out for us, but I direct my anger at the main parties - the a duplicitous AFL (including Fitzpatrick and the Commission), the AFL mouthpieces in the media and, finally, those at EFC that contributed to this god awful mess.


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With respect, I call bullshit.

This person is effectively saying the club is prepared to have 28 players sit out of competition whilst going through the appeals process and with nobody knowing how long the appeals process takes, that could be the full season for all they know.

I agree with your direct summary.

How can anyone know what the result will be when the tribunal has only just commenced deliberating and it's been stated this will take at least one month?


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cymarak

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For the bold, aren't players forced to sit out whilst the appeal is being carried out?
Yes, players would be suspended while the appeals process was underway.

You seemed to be inferring that the rumour was not plausible because it suggested that the club was prepared to have 28 players suspended and wait for the appeals process to play out to clear them.

I didn't see how the rumour suggested anything about what the club was / wasn't prepared for (except in the more literal sense of 'prepared for' - i.e. being ready for any eventuality).
 
I agree with your direct summary.

How can anyone know what the result will be when the tribunal has only just commenced deliberating and it's been stated this will take at least one month?


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Any 'rumour' at this point will be based solely, at best, on someone's gut feel of what a likely outcome is.

People should not take these things as gospel.
 

Pweter

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Yes, players would be suspended while the appeals process was underway.

You seemed to be inferring that the rumour was not plausible because it suggested that the club was prepared to have 28 players suspended and wait for the appeals process to play out to clear them.

I didn't see how the rumour suggested anything about what the club was / wasn't prepared for (except in the more literal sense of 'prepared for' - i.e. being ready for any eventuality).


and Essendon will appeal for the 28 players who did get bans

That bit of the rumour implied to me that the club is prepared to let 28 players sit out whilst the guilty verdict is being appealed.
 

cymarak

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That bit of the rumour implied to me that the club is prepared to let 28 players sit out whilst the guilty verdict is being appealed.
What choice would the club have ?

If that's the verdict the tribunal delivers - and as I said earlier, I'm not buying it at this point - the only choice the club and the players have is whether to appeal or to not appeal.

It's not as if the rumour is suggesting that the club is putting up its hand in the background and saying to ASADA / the AFL "let's cut a deal - we're happy for you to suspend 28 players, so long as you clear the other 6, we'll let this play out finally on appeal".

Putting this another way, IMO, the rumour has issues with plausibility, but not due to what the club supposedly is / isn't prepared for.
 

Pweter

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What choice would the club have ?

If that's the verdict the tribunal delivers - and as I said earlier, I'm not buying it at this point - the only choice the club and the players have is whether to appeal or to not appeal.

It's not as if the rumour is suggesting that the club is putting up its hand in the background and saying to ASADA / the AFL "let's cut a deal - we're happy for you to suspend 28 players, so long as you clear the other 6, we'll let this play out finally on appeal".

In no way did I say the club would give thought to cutting a deal.

28 players is a lot to have sitting out even for a handful of games. Any appeal will prolong how long they are not only out of the game, but away from the club. If that's what the club wants then I'd be surprised. I'd say it'd be up to individual players as to whether they want that or not.
 
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Is there any truth to the rumour that these six players who aren't suspended will be playing for other club this year? I've heard there is going to be a mini draft of Essendon players called "the exodus". Apparently it's going to be run like an auction and Caro will be the auctioneer.

Has anyone else being hearing this? Are the voices in my head loud enough for that?
 

cymarak

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In no way did I say the club would give thought to cutting a deal.

28 players is a lot to have sitting out even for a handful of games. Any appeal will prolong how long they are not only out of the game, but away from the club. If that's what the club wants then I'd be surprised. I'd say it'd be up to individual players as to whether they want that or not.
If the players are found guilty, they'll be suspended.

I'm not clear how 'any appeal will prolong how long they are not only out of the game, but away from the club.' - are you worried about the possibility of EFC appealing a guilty verdict, and the suspension period being increased on appeal ?

Other than that possibility, players are free to play and to be around the club as soon as their suspension ends - appealing wouldn't make them have to sit out for longer.
 

60sbomber

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As soon as they start playing my understanding is this resets any provisional suspension. So any time served is probably wiped. Happy to be corrected if wrong but its a silly system. So if the decision is overturned at appeal and the players have recommenced playing then they will probably get screwed

There are two aspects to so called "backdating", I think.
There is backdating due to delays not caused by the players, or maybe it is only delays caused by ASADA.
Secondly there is backdating to include a period of provisional suspension already served.
It is the latter that would be lost if the players resumed playing
In no way did I say the club would give thought to cutting a deal.

28 players is a lot to have sitting out even for a handful of games. Any appeal will prolong how long they are not only out of the game, but away from the club. If that's what the club wants then I'd be surprised. I'd say it'd be up to individual players as to whether they want that or not.

An appeal cannot prolong how long players are out of the game.
If they are suspended, and they appeal, they serve the term of the suspension, unless within the term of the suspension, they are exonerated on appeal.
If the suspension has been served prior to the appeal being heard, they are free to play from the time the suspension has been served, pending the appeal.

Edit: beaten to the punch by Cymarak. Agree.
 

efcboy

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Any 'rumour' at this point will be based solely, at best, on someone's gut feel of what a likely outcome is.

People should not take these things as gospel.

Yep and given its a 3 man panel you could hear from one of the 3 men his opinion and this may not be the outcome as majority would rule.

Anyone professing to know the outcome is full of Demetriou
 

cymarak

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It's been over a week now since final submissions were made to the tribunal hasn't it ?

My guess is that the tribunal would have come to its decision by now, and the next few weeks are 'needed' to document the decision thoroughly for the inevitable appeals process.

Is it like some court verdicts produced by a panel of judges, where the court presents the majority decision, and also the minority / dissenting opinion as well (if one exists) ? If so, presumably the tribunal members couldn't operate completely independently until verdict time - they'd have to know where each other stands well before presenting the final verdict.
 
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