List Mgmt. List planning 2015 and onwards

[Long live PAFC]

Whilst very early in the season to be thinking about this, we have a number of interesting list issues that may arrive over this year and in the next couple.

1) Our best 22, whilst a handful of players still remain under debate, is unlikely to change significantly. Our oldest players have at least 2-3 seasons left in them and the remaining 20 players have 5-10 yrs depending upon age. We also have a solid 22 and it is unlikely we will be able to recruit players of the talent to push out a current starting 22 player. This means that the crop in the 25 to 35 range will have to be judiciously managed as they may seek opportunities elsewhere.

2) List composition: outside of the best 22, we have several senior players (Logan, Krakouer, Stewart) with variable AFL playing ability, 5 or so players pushing for selection and covering injuries and the rest are developing. The difficulty this creates is ensuring good opportunities to blood the youngsters whilst preserving team competitiveness and rewarding the experience and ability of the senior guys.

3) Our list is also very balanced with no real glaring needs. Yes it would be nice to have Jeremy Cameron up front, Smith off half back and Ablett in the centre but we actually don't need them. We have a good team capable of competing and winning a flag, it is up to them now.

4) The real issue with our current list composition is who do we delist at the end of the year. We need to bring three players onto the senior list and move three players off to accommodate these players.

We can't touch the 1st yr draftees, although I think some may be perfect for the rookie list in later years as long term propositions. I can't see Logan being elevated after his delistment and Gray/Russell aren't quite ready yet although this may change. They are rookie list spots anyway so we would still need to delist others. Ah Chee is one, but does have potential and may turn it on this season. Butcher is another player with question marks but finally had a good preseason, has significant potential and had a cracker in the trial game. Redden may be an option for a delist and rookie style - but it is risky and it reduces our rucks on the main list to 3 with one being very inexperienced. Difficult decisions to make!

5) Who to target in trading and drafting?

I would have thought minimum draft picks required, keep pick one and trade anything else as required.

Maybe target Jack Trengrove - adds senior experience and ability, huge upside, is a long term prospect as is only 24/25, won't necessarily push for senior selection straight away and can help some of the young recruits develop in SANFL.

Just thought I would get the ball rolling. Sorry if this thread, or similar, has been started elsewhere.

 

[Portress Hill]

I'd still like for us to bring in Dan gorringe this year. Will be out of contract finally so hopefully he didn't do any damage there with his comments. Others that spring to mind are toumpass and trengove. But then who would they replace?

 

[tribey]

Maybe target Jack Trengrove - adds senior experience and ability, huge upside, is a long term prospect as is only 24/25, won't necessarily push for senior selection straight away and can help some of the young recruits develop in SANFL.

Trengove is pretty much cooked, I thought. Would've been a Richmond player but failed the medical.

Short of a miracle, due to injury the only upside he has is battling away as a role player for a lowly side until his late 20's when his list slot is inevitably superseded for a random draftee - see Xavier Clarke, Brock McLean, Mark Coughlin, Byron Schammer.

Unfortunate, had genuine ability.

 

[Kingfish73]

We need to be grooming a tagger and Angus replacement. You need a Kane for best midfielder tag and a defensive forward to prevent defensive rebound

 

[Hellgood]

Whilst very early in the season to be thinking about this, we have a number of interesting list issues that may arrive over this year and in the next couple.

1) Our best 22, whilst a handful of players still remain under debate, is unlikely to change significantly. Our oldest players have at least 2-3 seasons left in them and the remaining 20 players have 5-10 yrs depending upon age. We also have a solid 22 and it is unlikely we will be able to recruit players of the talent to push out a current starting 22 player. This means that the crop in the 25 to 35 range will have to be judiciously managed as they may seek opportunities elsewhere.

2) List composition: outside of the best 22, we have several senior players (Logan, Krakouer, Stewart) with variable AFL playing ability, 5 or so players pushing for selection and covering injuries and the rest are developing. The difficulty this creates is ensuring good opportunities to blood the youngsters whilst preserving team competitiveness and rewarding the experience and ability of the senior guys.

3) Our list is also very balanced with no real glaring needs. Yes it would be nice to have Jeremy Cameron up front, Smith off half back and Ablett in the centre but we actually don't need them. We have a good team capable of competing and winning a flag, it is up to them now.

4) The real issue with our current list composition is who do we delist at the end of the year. We need to bring three players onto the senior list and move three players off to accommodate these players.

We can't touch the 1st yr draftees, although I think some may be perfect for the rookie list in later years as long term propositions. I can't see Logan being elevated after his delistment and Gray/Russell aren't quite ready yet although this may change. They are rookie list spots anyway so we would still need to delist others. Ah Chee is one, but does have potential and may turn it on this season. Butcher is another player with question marks but finally had a good preseason, has significant potential and had a cracker in the trial game. Redden may be an option for a delist and rookie style - but it is risky and it reduces our rucks on the main list to 3 with one being very inexperienced. Difficult decisions to make!

5) Who to target in trading and drafting?

I would have thought minimum draft picks required, keep pick one and trade anything else as required.

Maybe target Jack Trengrove - adds senior experience and ability, huge upside, is a long term prospect as is only 24/25, won't necessarily push for senior selection straight away and can help some of the young recruits develop in SANFL.

Just thought I would get the ball rolling. Sorry if this thread, or similar, has been started elsewhere.

Don't disagree with the overall sentiment of your post, but ffs Trengove is finished. Melbourne tried shipping him off to Richmond last summer for a late first round draft pick despite knowing his navicular was buggered again.

Yeah I get that like Polec, posters on this board saw his talent as a junior playing against men and want to be the one to claim him. But the two cases are completely different.

 

[Andre]

Logan is a rookie, so whether he's about next year is fairly meh. Personally I don't think he'll be on the Power list, the young bodies who've struggled during the middle wet ground period the last two years are now looking like men.

The Flynn experiment is being and gone, so with those two rookie spots are fine.

Kane hopefully goes out at the end of the year with a second premiership. He's got media work in his future, so there's no need to hold on indefinitely.

Ah Chee and Butcher are going to need to show things this year. Butcher can show improvement and not get many games and still be held onto with Schulz's age. He needs to show that improvement though. Ah Chee by virtue of his position doesn't have that luxury.

Redden is 50/50 IMO. If his body breaks down again I think he'll end up on the rookie list for a final chance to show he can hold up to AFL.

Shaw it wouldn't surprise me to see heads to Freo, they'll throw more at him then we'll offer. We'lll still be in contention in 2016/2017 when he's a realistic chance of pushing for games if he works hard, but will he want to wait or move home for more and likely games earlier?

Young and Moore we've been waiting for their breakout year for the last two or three years. We have Ryder to fit in now and Impey looking fitter. I don't see both getting 15+ games and think whichever isn't a regular will pull a Benny Newton.

At this point I don't know which ones will free up the list places, but we'll have no problem getting enough out to bring it down, whether it's how the club wants to do it or not.

 

[CharlieKelly]

who are some players we could realistically target at the end of the year?

on the current free agency list, there's nobody who stands out

there's a few talented SA players at other clubs who could possibly join us:

Sam Day, if Butcher fails to deliver this season, he always seems linked to us these past few off-seasons
Jimmy Toumpas, if he can be "de-Melbournised", seems he's out of favour there
Tim Broomhead, he's more "Port Adelaide" than most of the Port list: ex-Port District and Port Magpies
Cam Giles, yet to play for Carlton, touted as a 195cm swingman, how many years does Westhoff have left?

would love to get Brodie Grundy, but he's contracted until 2017

 

[Ralph Lorenz]

Tim Broomhead, he's more "Port Adelaide" than most of the Port list: ex-Port District and Port Magpies

Signed with collingwood last year I believe and looks settled with more game time likely this year.
I take solace in the fact that he would've been a crow had they not forgone their draft picks.

 

[AdsGoNads]

Jeremy Cameron is out of contract.. Just saying.

 

[Portress Hill]

Broomhead unfortunately seems to like being a pie.

I forgot about trengoves body issues so cross him off my list. I'd perhaps still take him for a late pick as a gamble.

As said above, I agree that Shaw will be off to freo, just can't see him getting the opportunity here especially now Ryder is here.

 

[Coobk001]

Good thread but my brain hurts reading it this early in the morning....

 

[CharlieKelly]

As said above, I agree that Shaw will be off to freo, just can't see him getting the opportunity here especially now Ryder is here.

who could we trade for Shaw if he goes to Freo? maybe Michael Apeness?

 

[Asgardian]

We have only 3 players needing consideration because of age

Kane is 32, Jay & Tommy Logan are 30 this year

We need to come up with a new tagger for 2016 & beyond

One of our young key forwards have to cement a spot over the next couple of years &/or we buy one

Our small defender roster is is well stocked, so there is no issue.

If Redden does not become injury free we will need to replace him, but at this stage we should remain positive

Our drafting should be "best available", our recruiting could look for a tagger & superstar key forward

 

[Macca19]

We really need one of the four young forwards to stand up and make a bit of a name for themselves this year as thats still our biggest deficiancy. Schulz and Hoff will start the downward spiral soon so we really need a Butcher or Shaw to make a genuine push for games and show some AFL form.

If Shaw leaves, its hard to know what we could demand in a trade for him. NO more than a 2nd round pick at this stage, or someone like Sheridan or Crozier.

 

[FallingLiefs]

Sheridan, Crozier, Apeness all are way overs. Their second pick like 40ish would be enough (on last years form)

Other then what's been mentioned It would be nice for one our running defenders to be elite this year, we have good foot soldiers but no real weapons there. Otherwise we could try buy one of them.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

When our defence becomes really mean and tough ie another 30-40 games under their belt for Jasper, Jarman, Jack, Jacko and co we move Tommy Jonas back into the guts to tag like he did in 2011 and first half of 2012. He will make Ryan Crowley's tagging efforts look like a schoolboys efforts.

 

[CharlieKelly]

Jeremy Cameron is out of contract.. Just saying.

yeah but the Crows are trading Patrick Dangerfield for him

 

[Power Raid]

I'd still like for us to bring in Dan gorringe this year. Will be out of contract finally so hopefully he didn't do any damage there with his comments. Others that spring to mind are toumpass and trengove. But then who would they replace?

agree

in regards to his comments, he is just a kid who fears his career is at a crossroads. Although not helpful, I can understand them.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Butcher is safe for me until one of the younger key falls go past him.

Even if he shows no improvement there is no way we can continue past 2015 without an appropriate backup for Schulz.

 

[Ralph Lorenz]

Shaw to Freo talk is blasphemy. He'll be our #1 forward in 3-4 years.

#buddy2k15

 

[Power Raid]

Shaw to Freo talk is blasphemy. He'll be our #1 forward in 3-4 years.

#buddy2k15

freo is already sniffing

I hope we keep him but to do that, he will want opportunity

 

[Phhht]

When our defence becomes really mean and tough ie another 30-40 games under their belt for Jasper, Jarman, Jack, Jacko and co we move Tommy Jonas back into the guts to tag like he did in 2011 and first half of 2012. He will make Ryan Crowley's tagging efforts look like a schoolboys efforts.

 

[Long live PAFC]

I wouldn't be too keen for Cornes, etc to retire - we need that group of older players to maintain the standard and provide leadership. I think this is the reason Logan was maintained, to provide SANFL leadership, as let's face it, he isn't going to be playing much AFL. Besides Cornes is still one of the best taggers and Schulz one of the best set shot kicks.

Hopefully Pittard and Broadbent will continue developing into those running back/half back general roles that we currently lack. Impey too to a lesser extent.

Our key back options look solid, we just need to resign Clurey and O'Shea and allow Austin to develop at SANFL level.

Forwards are tougher! If we suffer some injuries and Ryder is scrubbed out, suddenly we have Butcher and Shaw up front - totally different proposition. But then where do you fit in a Gorringe type player if we traded for him and we didn't have injuries? Or Day and Cameron as have been mentioned and dreamed about? Shaw has too stay for the moment and hasn't done much to warrant Freo's interest beyond the WA link and wouldn't garner more than a third round pick.

 

[Long live PAFC]

who are some players we could realistically target at the end of the year?

on the current free agency list, there's nobody who stands out

there's a few talented SA players at other clubs who could possibly join us:

Sam Day, if Butcher fails to deliver this season, he always seems linked to us these past few off-seasons
Jimmy Toumpas, if he can be "de-Melbournised", seems he's out of favour there
Tim Broomhead, he's more "Port Adelaide" than most of the Port list: ex-Port District and Port Magpies
Cam Giles, yet to play for Carlton, touted as a 195cm swingman, how many years does Westhoff have left?

would love to get Brodie Grundy, but he's contracted until 2017

Interesting option but I am not sure on the Toump, young and highly rated but what would we be taking him for? Wouldn't be best 22 and our midfield is chockers at the moment.

Cam Giles has talent but suffered a foot fracture. Not sure Carlton would let him go easily. Maybe worth a look as a long term development option to support/replace Trengrove.

 

[Long live PAFC]

Don't disagree with the overall sentiment of your post, but ffs Trengove is finished. Melbourne tried shipping him off to Richmond last summer for a late first round draft pick despite knowing his navicular was buggered again.

Yeah I get that like Polec, posters on this board saw his talent as a junior playing against men and want to be the one to claim him. But the two cases are completely different.

Yea I agree Trengrove is likely finished, sadly. I guess I was raising him as an example of someone who is experienced, has a upside if he could get fit and likely would cost much as a trade now. At worst he could provide leadership at SANFL level to help the young players develop whilst pushing for senior selection in a Logan style role, which is actually really important - see GCS reserve team smacking when they lost those experience bodies. But yes certainly take your point and am not attached to the idea.