AFL floats possibility of small penalty if Dons guilty, but ASADA stays silent

[BlueWorld]

it wasnt a deliberate duping IMO, it was poor due diligence on Dank for not checking that TB4 had become specifically banned within the last year, and Essendon for not checking on Dank more thoroughly, and failing to ensure Reid wasnt excluded. These are failing the club has already been punished for

They have not been punished for doping.

 

[BlueWorld]

it has been reported numerous times by different journalists. Coincidence?

Which journalists? From different papers?

 

[crowsup]

When you've had all the fees we've had along with all the fees to come in the future, an additional $2 million is not meaningless.



Yes, because Adelaide stupidly offered up the punishment before the AFL even issued any sanctions. blame Trigg and the Adelaide board for that. Two years of draft sanctions is still very significant.



Hird's from an individual perspective was relatively light, I agree. But what does that have to from Essendon's perspective where they lost their coach for a year?



That is really ignorant view of it. If you honestly don't think two years worth of draft sanctions and a $2 million fine when we're already bleeding cash is significant, then **** me, I don't know what to say.

Re the hi-lighted part; You are wrong there. Adelaide offered to lose first and second pick for that year. The AFL added one extra year of pick losses as well as $500k fine, the CEO suspended for 6 months and the football manager suspended for 2 years.
The reason given for the harsher penalties (harsher than Essendon's) was because Essendon self reported and Adelaide hadn't. This is after the AFL actually telling Essendon to self report because ASADA was going to start investigating them the next day. This was proved by (guess who?) none other than Hird himself, under oath, during the first trial.
Are you still telling us that Essendon's punishment was too harsh in comparison to Adelaide's. Think about it. The punishment was handed out by the same body. Were those punishments remotely close to fair?

P.S>- Already answered.

 

[LoungeLizard]

They have not been punished for doping.

If you talk to Lance Uppercut they have.
But why would they take a deal for doping when they believe they are innocent.
Maybe they know they are guilty hey?

 

[compact72]

If you talk to Lance Uppercut they have.
But why would they take a deal for doping when they believe they are innocent.
Maybe they know they are guilty hey?

Of course. They knew it all along.

It's all PR to paint them as though they all got duped

 

[BlueWorld]

i think the motive to cheat wasnt there, so if the club is punished for the failures, and the players get reduced punishments for no significant fault and assistance im comfortable with this

But Reimers already acknowledged they were pushing the boundaries. They might have thought tb4 would be ok but they were wrong.

 

[BlueWorld]

I dont blame the players at all,,,,the duty of care is with your employer.

No the players are responsible for what enters their bodies.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

let's cut to the chase here guys:

the afl believes the players will be found guilty and that bans will be handed down

that's pretty damning.

all the other fluff is irrelevant. who cares whether the AFL want short bans, of course they want short bans, it's in their best interest... luckily this whole thing has gotten so big that there's no way ASADA/WADA are going to let that slide no matter how many tea parties gil holds.

 

[BlueWorld]

Further to this, paints a picture of what ASADA or WADA will do if a ban, akin to the one the AFL suggests, is handed down.

Which is the whole point of the article, to condition the public that despite what the AFL would like, Asada and Wada are going to be pushing for big bans.

 

[BlueWorld]

Fines are meaningless.

Draft penalties were LIGHTER than what Adelaide received from their Tippett saga as you received the PP last year.

Your coach received a paid vacation not a suspension ....

Your main penalty in the loss of finals is your only real significant penalty .......

And that was because the AFL were worried about the integrity of the finals being destroyed if doping was found to have taken place.

 

[gavaniacono]

Well lets be honest when it comes to the AFL and punishments

Our chief "weapon" is Robinson. Robinson and Dank. Our 2 chief weapons are Robonson and Dank. And Charter. Our three weapons are: Robonson. Dank. And charter, and an almost fanatical devotion to Hird. Our 4 weapons are...

 

[BlueWorld]

Hird's from an individual perspective was relatively light, I agree. But what does that have to from Essendon's perspective where they lost their coach for a year?



That is really ignorant view of it. If you honestly don't think two years worth of draft sanctions and a $2 million fine when we're already bleeding cash is significant, then **** me, I don't know what to say.

They replaced an inexperienced coach with a premiership coach and made the finals instead of falling in a heap late in the season, how did that turn out?

No one asked you to launch court action if you couldn't afford it.

 

[Linda Lovelace]

Hopefully now all the "the AFL are just out to get us and Hirdy for no good reason" clowns can see the forest for the trees.

The AFL have always wanted the players to escape penalty.

I don't think you ever come back from that level of delusion. I remember talking to one poor lost soul who had convinced himself that the AFL was colluding with ASADA to ban players. When asked why a business would possibly conspire to damage itself for no logical reason, the response was basically incomprehensible.

The AFL have gone after the Golden Boy but that's because they have damn good reasons to do it.

On top of the general desire to see a conspiracy in everything rather than admit fault, it is also this twisted idea that Hird = the club that has lead the deluded into thinking that attacks on Hird are attacks on everything Essendon.

 

[The Dodger]

Ahh the AFL...I love their transparent motives.

I can see their rep boldly addressing the panel and declaring that "we think there should be a small number of matches missed...err if found guilty of course" very confidently. All the while looking out the corner of the eye at the ASADA bench to gauge the reaction..."4 games????...(ASADA shakes head)....5 games????".

They have no control and are fishing for responses. I still get the feeling the players are going to be royally angry at this when it comes down. I reckon they have had so much promised to them by the club & the AFL that neither could guarantee. They needed independent advice from the get go looking out for them and their interests. Something doesn't seem right with the over confidence of the AFL on this.

 

[Boston tiger]

Actually not true. Adelaide offered up one year of draft picks (first two rounds) in good faith. AFL doubled it. We also were unable to trade the first year. We lost our CEO (six months) and footy manager (3 months) from Jan 1. And we were fined (which we paid by the way - only Club stupid enough to pay these fines it seems). The thing that really gets my goat. Vlad said ours were worse (effectively) because we didn't co-operate but Essendon did. I mean WTF??

It was all just a governance issue in the end anyway. No one was to blame other than Tippet. How long was his ban? Interesting to see if it's longer than the Essendon players.

 

[jezzajay]

Anyone have a problem with the first sentence?

"The AFL suggested to the special doping tribunal that present and former Essendon players should receive a small match-based suspension if they were found guilty of taking a banned substance"

ASADA should and so should the EFC players.

Imagine found guilty on basis of a short sentence, then ASADA/WADA appeals to AAT/CAS not on guilt but on sentence and players are smacked with a long sentence.

The AFL doesn't seem to get it that it has lost control and ultimately WADA has the final shot should it want it.

At least Sepp Blatter knows how to keep these deals out of sight, AFL are amateurs.

well said....thank you.

 

[bing181]

"The defence for the 32 has maintained optimism that the players will be cleared."

Bit of backtracking there if all they can muster is "maintained optimism". Up until now it's been "confident" players will be cleared.

If anyone's looking for an assumption on the part of the AFL that the players will be found guilty, they only have to read this article.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

question, who do we think leaked this? cause it's funny timing considering the afl's submission to the tribunal was some time ago.

a) essendon: chuffed that the afl are in their corner, wanting to make it seem that even though bans are likely they'll be insignificant and not a big deal

b) ASADA: to undermine the AFL and highlight their dodgy dealings in light of recent clandestine meetings with gil

c) AFL: to make ASADA out to be the big bad if heavy bans are recommended.

d) hird with the candlestick, in the lobby

 

[Eagle-Eye]

i suppose asada need to find evidence the players lied. Cant say ive seen any myself though

So were you present at their interviews? If so, what exactly DID they say?

 

[T Factor]

Actually not true. Adelaide offered up one year of draft picks (first two rounds) in good faith. AFL doubled it. We also were unable to trade the first year. We lost our CEO (six months) and footy manager (3 months) from Jan 1. And we were fined (which we paid by the way - only Club stupid enough to pay these fines it seems). The thing that really gets my goat. Vlad said ours were worse (effectively) because we didn't co-operate but Essendon did. I mean WTF??

If EFC get away with the players getting a few weeks and less than Adelaide then it shows the other Clubs the best way to deal with things is to fight and definitely not fess up.

 

[Lissy]

I'm still wondering one judge tells asada they have enough evidence to go after the players. Four judges tell hird to f*** off with his crap. So what on earth are bombers players/fans and the afl really think the outcome will be???

 

[D-N-R]

i suppose asada need to find evidence the players lied. Cant say ive seen any myself though

ASADA don't really care if the players lied or not, or whether they set out to cheat or not. The punishment will be the same.

Also, this idea that the players were duped doesn't hold much water. They signed information / consent forms for starters.

Secondly, when asked about what they were given, they seemed pretty vague. They didn't seem to know exactly themselves what they were given, so it would be pretty hard for them to claim that they were told one thing and given another, when they can't even name the thing they were supposed to have been given. If the had all come out and said "Thymomodulin", and the drugs trail led to TB-4, then they might be able to demonstrate that they were told one thing and given something else. As it stands, they can only remember being given Thymo-something, which is as good as a confession.

Lastly, they have a duty under the code to check all this stuff themselves. All of this was apparently left up to one person. Some 50 other people - the players who, according to McVeigh, were concerned about the level the program was getting to, and the doctor who had more than one problem with the nature of the program including the legality and morality of it - all of these people didn't bother to check.

If you want a code where players can get off for doping by saying 'they didn't mean to', then throw the whole thing out the window, because it would be useless.

 

[Lissy]

ASADA don't really care if the players lied or not, or whether they set out to cheat or not. The punishment will be the same.

Also, this idea that the players were duped doesn't hold much water. They signed information / consent forms for starters.

Secondly, when asked about what they were given, they seemed pretty vague. They didn't seem to know exactly themselves what they were given, so it would be pretty hard for them to claim that they were told one thing and given another, when they can't even name the thing they were supposed to have been given. If the had all come out and said "Thymomodulin", and the drugs trail led to TB-4, then they might be able to demonstrate that they were told one thing and given something else. As it stands, they can only remember being given Thymo-something, which is as good as a confession.

Lastly, they have a duty under the code to check all this stuff themselves. All of this was apparently left up to one person. Some 50 other people - the players who, according to McVeigh, were concerned about the level the program was getting to, and the doctor who had more than one problem with the nature of the program including the legality and morality of it - all of these people didn't bother to check.

If you want a code where players can get off for doping by saying 'they didn't mean to', then throw the whole thing out the window, because it would be useless.

Always a good idea to sign consent form then say him sure it was thymosomething but definitely not tb4. James what do we say next?

 

[Thrawn]

ASADA don't really care if the players lied or not, or whether they set out to cheat or not. The punishment will be the same.

Sure about that? I thought it was illegal to lie to a statutory body.

 

[Tiger2709]

And a slap on the wrist? Get off of it.

If you think being kicked out finals, a $2 million fine, two years of first round and second rounds picks gone, our coach being suspended for a year, along with other things as the AFL leaking the charge sheet and further damaging our brand is a slap on the wrist, then I don't know what to say.

You try supporting a team when you've endured this for over two years and have the AFL do that to your club and then try and say it was a slap on the wrist.

Try supporting a sport where one club drags the whole game through the mud for over two years and then see if a slap on the wrist is sufficient punishment, everything Ive seen points to Essendon doing everything to cover up their crime and avoid punishment, both the players and the club and any and all officials involved should be punished in a way that will remind them in no uncertain terms to not attempt to cheat again.