Toast Into the Draft

[DontArgue4]

Hang on a minute...Isn't that overs ???

Probably a bit, but youve got to give up something to get something

 

[Bobby Sands]

So I heard an interesting story about JON recently.

His manager at the time called all the clubs to drum up interest, and said his player was an absolute gem and physical specimen (which he was). The story goes that he never did the psyh test at the combine. Richmond took the bait, and brought him in. Didn't psyh test him on arrival to punt road and started loading him up with the playbook. The coaches started to get frustrated at his inability to learn the game-plan and couldn't understand why he wasn't getting more accustomed. When he went back to the West, they psyh tested him and found out he couldn't read. No use giving a bloke a manual on Tigers footy if it's in a foreign language. Very disappointing due diligence if true.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

I think picking Corey filled a need that Blakely would have covered and hence we went for Menadue. I think if Menadue wasn't there Blakely would have been snapped up straight away. I think we even strongly considered Blakely at Menadue's pick even after taking Ellis

Does that mean Trengrove is an outside speed machine because we nobody expected Menadue to be there for our second round pick

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

So I heard an interesting story about JON recently.

His manager at the time called all the clubs to drum up interest, and said his player was an absolute gem and physical specimen (which he was). The story goes that he never did the psyh test at the combine. Richmond took the bait, and brought him in. Didn't psyh test him on arrival to punt road and started loading him up with the playbook. The coaches started to get frustrated at his inability to learn the game-plan and couldn't understand why he wasn't getting more accustomed. When he went back to the West, they psyh tested him and found out he couldn't read. No use giving a bloke a manual on Tigers footy if it's in a foreign language. Very disappointing due diligence if true.

West Coast discovered he had a learning disability when he got there. The story is true

 

[farstrider]

Bontempelli for a 3rd rounder + Grigg + a draft video

 

[TigerTime3]

Not sure how true this is, but I've heard that had the Trengove deal gone through, we were looking at Connor Blakely for pick 23.

So essentially, in hindsight our haul would have been:

Ellis + Menadue

or

Menadue + Blakely + Trengove

Or in other words Trengove + Blakely instead of Corey Ellis. Not that we knew both Menadue and Blakely would have been available, but it's interesting to frame the results in this way.

Essentially we chose Ellis over an injured Trengove + Blakely.

 

[Colonel]

Does that mean Trengrove is an outside speed machine because we nobody expected Menadue to be there for our second round pick

Not really sure what you mean? Trengove is a quality midfielder if fit, to get him we would have had to downgrade to pick 23 and most likely would have picked Blakely because we needed an extra inside midfielder. As this did not occur we got what we think is a better player in Ellis to do this and therefore when it came to pick 33 we went with the runner instead of inside mid. I believe we pretty much rated Blakely and Menadue even, maybe Blakely slightly higher but due to list needs we went with a quality kid in Menadue

 

[RichoLedio]

View attachment 114090

Oh that's a real useful invention

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Not really sure what you mean? Trengove is a quality midfielder if fit, to get him we would have had to downgrade to pick 23 and most likely would have picked Blakely because we needed an extra inside midfielder. As this did not occur we got what we think is a better player in Ellis to do this and therefore when it came to pick 33 we went with the runner instead of inside mid. I believe we pretty much rated Blakely and Menadue even, maybe Blakely slightly higher but due to list needs we went with a quality kid in Menadue

I mean we didn't think Menadue would be there at pick 32

 

[Mr Magic]

I don't know about that. The club clearly had a lot of trouble deciding between Blakely and Menadue on the night, and took a very long time. Here's hoping we got the right one.

I would have taken Blakely over Menadue on the night simply because Blakely had a more solid physique and less risk from that angle due to Menadues lightness but also because the way Blakely played reminded me of the Swan who got the most out of himself who is assistant coach under Ross Lyon except Blakely has better disposal, and Blakely seemed sound enough from a inside contested ball perspective, which IMO at draft stage is rare, with enough other traits of interest.It does not surprise me if he is killing it at Freo atm but still early to tell I suppose.

I still liked Menadue and was kind of hoping from a trait perspective, e.g., height, speed etc.. he could slip to us so I think Menadue is a very good selection with the risk being his lightness atm which hopefully can be improved as he develops. I am sure VIP's do not scrutinise BF if at all but I refrained from Menadue a lot in BF commentary, not because people take notice of my opinion, but the less talk on BF and anywhere else people may source more chance he can slip under anyones radar.

I had Blakely and Menadue a fair way ahead of others around our second pick.

Drummond was a no brainer at our third for me and Mckenzie was just a gift one really could never predict IMO

 

[tigs2010]

Bontempelli for a 3rd rounder + Grigg + a draft video

Massive overs. Mids are a dime a dozen. This video is one of a kind.

 

[Mr Magic]

Would of loved Blakely but we had to take a runner with a decent pick.

Can't agree with that philosophy even though happy enough we got Menadue. I tend to focus far more one the abilities of the players available in the draft because, IMO if good enough, the players will be good enough, and are likely to be required, to play multiple positions anyway.

You can also get a trade done later or whatever. I saw no desperate need for a runner just at that stage but would be eyeing up Menadue simply because of his perceived abilities forgetting about needs for roles.

If we were worrying about roles/needs I would have picked McKenzie far before the pick we got him at!

 

[Mr Magic]

I bloody loved it! See how stoked they were to get Manadue and MacKenzie?

I thought it was a very good interest piece from the club.


I think some of it obviously has been edited which is fair enough and I do not place too much reading into certain aspects of analysis as a result in addition to the fact, it was on video. Most likely there where other versions of analysis, supplementary and otherwise not put forward which again is fair enough.

Interesting enough, but personally, I tend to get the impression I place greater emphasis than others on how a player plays in terms of their movement and way they do things rather than just stats and other so-called criteria such as using concepts like elite etc.. which to me is somewhat arbitrary to a degree apart from stat indications etc... Simple example the guy from WA that was almost a clone of Gilbert McAdam and Blakely playing a lot like Brett Kirk IMO are the types of movement, composure, smarts etc.. that I look for in a player being able make it etc.. when starting to really sift through players at reasonably similar levels of competitiveness generally. Gets back to the concept of a likely type which is difficult to define because players come in all shapes and sizes and such scrutiny becomes an art form rather than a science because the matrix and integration of various perceived qualities becomes critical in such analysis IMO. So for me, it is not me just saying this player plays like so and so and therefore will make it in my analysis, it is more like,this player has these attributes like this player and, as a result, is more conducive to be able to develop into a player at a very high level that can do this and that because of those attributes, along with other VIP aspects, which possibly can be developed even further. I seriously doubt we are not getting the full picture here and I am almost certain, without really knowing at all, other factors are being discussed we are not being aware of that are far more sensitive.



Personally I would have picked Duggan over Ellis but I don't mind Ellis. We didn't have the choice anyway. But I see aspects in Duggan's movement that remind me of Robert Harvey, the left foot, height, good disposal and leadership, too much of a plus for me, I think he was quicker. I see Duggan as having more potential development physically and due to age which may present more upside in areas with more scope. It is interesting you get the impression some maybe think he is not as inside as others, and how some read certain things potentially. Depending on what has been seen it can be a small sample. I would fear being too absolute on some specifics given the potential for development on various aspects of a players game. Ellis is still a good player, solid player assuming the foot is a non issue, so I am happy enough with how we went pick 1 and overall in the draft. I would have been looking at Lever to be honest, but if the group was not even considering him in the relative ranking area, seemingly, for whatever reason, thats the way it is. I am the first to admit I do not have full information on the draftees. For example, I have not seen nearly enough to make any assessment on Ellis's decision making overall let alone any other player and our guys seem to think Ellis's decision making is a standout which goes to show how far out of the real loop on any proper analysis I am.

The best part about it, from a club perspective, is the recruiting group seemed amicable enough in the sense no one was too imposing with there view and they seemed happy enough, relaxed, calm and comfortable as individuals and as part of a collective to each provide input and bounce ideas thoughts off others.

 

[theflea]

So I heard an interesting story about JON recently.

His manager at the time called all the clubs to drum up interest, and said his player was an absolute gem and physical specimen (which he was). The story goes that he never did the psyh test at the combine. Richmond took the bait, and brought him in. Didn't psyh test him on arrival to punt road and started loading him up with the playbook. The coaches started to get frustrated at his inability to learn the game-plan and couldn't understand why he wasn't getting more accustomed. When he went back to the West, they psyh tested him and found out he couldn't read. No use giving a bloke a manual on Tigers footy if it's in a foreign language. Very disappointing due diligence if true.

The flea has debunked this story I believe. We gave him all the assistance he needed. The eagles may have told the world the assistance they gave him, however his career went no where so maybe he was just shite.

 

[pebblestone]

Have found some footage

lol reminds me of that Mark Neeld one. I sat watching that for about half an hour in tears at the time.

 

[Elgreedo]

It is interesting hearing analysis of players summarising them as inside or outside types. From my perspective, it is clear that any player can be either, depending on their mindset and drive.

One thing I think is true, is that a naturally fast, outside player can be trained to play inside, and while a slower player with the right attributes can play effectively as an outside player, he can never be fast.

I remember a lot of criticism of Wayne Campbell for a perception of softness. Even later in his career, people who dealt in perception rather than reality were still saying that. What I saw, however, was a man who had worked so hard to not be seen as soft he was outright reckless. He actually put himself in situations he didn't need to by the end. He wasn't fearless, he was courageous.

So, anyway, what I'm saying is that while I haven't seen these young players play, it seems somewhat dangerous for recruiters to label 18 year olds as one thing or the other. Often it is talent, character, determination and a combination of some or all of those that can overcome obstacles in our great game.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

So I heard an interesting story about JON recently.

His manager at the time called all the clubs to drum up interest, and said his player was an absolute gem and physical specimen (which he was). The story goes that he never did the psyh test at the combine. Richmond took the bait, and brought him in. Didn't psyh test him on arrival to punt road and started loading him up with the playbook. The coaches started to get frustrated at his inability to learn the game-plan and couldn't understand why he wasn't getting more accustomed. When he went back to the West, they psyh tested him and found out he couldn't read. No use giving a bloke a manual on Tigers footy if it's in a foreign language. Very disappointing due diligence if true.

Sounds like Carlton of today.

 

[Livonski]

Thought it was a very good insight, well done to the Tiges.

And really sums up why brad Johnson is paid the big bucks. His "analysis" is absolutely brilliant at the end.
Two come from close to richmond, their families will be happy....then read off the screen.

 

[Calcium Man]

Thought it was a very good insight, well done to the Tiges.

And really sums up why brad Johnson is paid the big bucks. His "analysis" is absolutely brilliant at the end.
Two come from close to richmond, their families will be happy....then read off the screen.

Couldn't even say menadue's name right.

 

[Groupie_]

Couldn't even say menadue's name right.

Didn't he call him Mennington

 

[Infamy]

Didn't he call him Mennington

Menade

 

[THE_GUN]

I cant say that i was a fan of Ellis but was over the moon about Menadue still being available at our 2nd selection - Thought the doggies with all their inside mids would certainly grab him for outside speed and class some even had him early 20's

McKenzie was the other player that i was extremely happy with on the night and looks like so were our recruiters - really have a feeling about this kid
Could be a real suprise in 4 years time when Jacks 30/31 Reece will be 23 and cherry ripe - Good foward planning

 

[GoTigers2015]

Interesting that FJ had earmarked Corey Ellis for the HBF. Seems like all our young talent starts there and then moves into the midfield. Anything to do with FJ being a backman in his playing days?

 

[richoatthedisco]

I believe we pretty much rated Blakely and Menadue even, maybe Blakely slightly higher but due to list needs we went with a quality kid in Menadue

Stick with the ratings, said Frank. Ergo, we rated Menadue higher.

 

[no orange peeler]

Interesting that FJ had earmarked Corey Ellis for the HBF. Seems like all our young talent starts there and then moves into the midfield. Anything to do with FJ being a backman in his playing days?

Nope its because every midfielder drafted has been an attacker their entire junior career. Its to teach them how to be defensive as well. You'll find it is a regular process nearly every draftee goes through