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The AFL's anti-doping tribunal
- Thread starter TroyUgle
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jenn will be using the Bruce Francis tips on writing letters
Crameri ?
Goddamn it. Why can't people just get the idea that if you do something wrong, you get punished for it? And external considerations like harm to the game, losing money/support to other codes, and all the other crap that has been raised are irrelevant?
The whole idea that somehow if the players get off any anger will be short lived and once the season starts people will be distracted.......blows my mind.
It's basically an approval of the AFL's sweep it all under the carpet culture.
If this happens then basically the integrity of the league/sport will be done for. Change the name to something like WWE (AFE ?).
The whole idea that somehow if the players get off any anger will be short lived and once the season starts people will be distracted.......blows my mind.
It's basically an approval of the AFL's sweep it all under the carpet culture.
If this happens then basically the integrity of the league/sport will be done for. Change the name to something like WWE (AFE ?).
- Banned
- #56
It's certainly an odd comment from Gordon.
I want to see scalps over this. I was laughed at last week when I expressed doubts about wanting my kid in the footy environment and that was before the Ice stuff at local level came out.
I have always been sympathetic to the players involved in this, less so now than I was.
But if the outcome is "look we can't prove wrongdoing" in the context of WADA disapproved drugs, then I'll be very disappointed.
I want to see scalps over this. I was laughed at last week when I expressed doubts about wanting my kid in the footy environment and that was before the Ice stuff at local level came out.
I have always been sympathetic to the players involved in this, less so now than I was.
But if the outcome is "look we can't prove wrongdoing" in the context of WADA disapproved drugs, then I'll be very disappointed.
Boxhead_31
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Maybe the players will sit out if found not guilty to protect their identities
Let's just say Gordon is a mouthpiece for the AFL and the Tribunal's decision is players not guilty (of course that could be a false assumption on my part); but in the event of a not guilty decision
THE VERY IDEA THAT YOU THINK YOU "KNOW" THEY ARE GUILTY WHEN A 2 YEAR ASADA INVESTIGATION AND A TRIBUNAL CONSISTING OF 3 HIGHLY PROFESSIONAL & QUALIFIED PERSONS DISAGREES,
shows you care not for evidence or the fundamental presumption of innocence, and are oblivious to the reality that the mainstream AFL fed media have been creating a story with very limited facts, context or technical understanding to sell newspapers and you folks have lapped it up because you are incapable of independent, critical thought.
THE VERY IDEA THAT YOU THINK YOU "KNOW" THEY ARE GUILTY WHEN A 2 YEAR ASADA INVESTIGATION AND A TRIBUNAL CONSISTING OF 3 HIGHLY PROFESSIONAL & QUALIFIED PERSONS DISAGREES,
shows you care not for evidence or the fundamental presumption of innocence, and are oblivious to the reality that the mainstream AFL fed media have been creating a story with very limited facts, context or technical understanding to sell newspapers and you folks have lapped it up because you are incapable of independent, critical thought.
Is the AFLPA full of crap. They think the players will get off, but they want their health monitored over the years?
Why waste the money if nothing is wrong?
Why waste the money if nothing is wrong?
Dave
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Goddamn it. Why can't people just get the idea that you are presumed innocent until proven (whatever the standard required) guilty? And external considerations like club tribalism, media witch hunts, and all the other crap that has been raised are irrelevant?
The whole idea that somehow if the players get off there will be any any anger once the season starts .......blows my mind.
It's basically disapproval of an independent tribunal's determination.
If this happens then the integrity of the league/sport will only have been damaged in the eyes of the ignorant and ill-informed.
You want an outcome that matches your beliefs and desires and bugger what the law says. Ok.
Here's a thought for people making judgements etc,and being outraged over a sentence that hasn't been handed down yet,what if there is no evidence at all to find the players guilty?ASADA's 2 key witnesses testimony is worthless,most of their case is hear say.If their found not guilty due to kack of evidence then ASADA have only themselves to blame.If they took banned substances then suspend them all,but if there is no evidence the players have to get off.The monitering of the players after the fact would have to do with them not being known what they were given,and the side effects not being known.The whole thing is pretty obvious really.
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Pantskyle
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What world are you living in
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- #63
Actually, mate, the very idea that you and others think this whole thing is a matter of proving the use of WADA proscribed performance enhancing drugs as opposed to the real issue of young men being injected with various exotic supplements in a non medical environment is what is disturbing.
2 years ago, I wanted no suspensions. I wanted the perpetrators dealt with and the players let go. But 2 years have passed and the players have since #stoodbyhird , Hird has been rewarded with a contract extension, and various ******* legal academics like Hardie, Burnside, and this other knobache Francis have muddied the waters with their bullshit.
WADA proscribed or not, what went on down at Essendon was disgraceful. Far from the "vitamins" that McVeigh would have had you believe, various non medical substances were injected into players for purposes not related to medical. Under the guidance of a scientist and with the approval of the coach.
The whole thing is contemptible and after all this time, the idea that there are so many who would seek to deflect responsibility for this disgrace is equally contemptible.
- Banned
- #64
Yes. I do. Because football is about more than the law. Much more. If football was about the law, then it couldn't exist.
Much of what occurs on the field would be illegal. And much of what occurs off the field would also be illegal.
Football exists due to a cooperative understanding between its participants that the law in its strict sense would not be applied. But with that cooperative understanding must also exist a thing called good faith. Good faith seems to have been left behind long ago.
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Hard to fault this.
If the players escape without penalty it's because the evidence doesn't met the required standard. ( could be they didn't do it I grant you).
Either way the outcome would be just.
Dave, I have to say the reverse also applies.
jenny61_99
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AFL would be my first stop I think. Then ASADA, then WADA. See I know the chain of command, unlike some.
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I'm a little confused about some claiming this shows a pre-determined outcome that the players will get off. If it's been said that they won't release the details until later Tuesday evening (just in time for the channel 7 sports news I bet) because of privacy issues, what privacy issues are there around a player who has been found to have no case to answer? Wouldn't you want to get that out there that you didn't do it, the Tribunal has said so?
I can understand if they are found guilty of the charge and still have to sit out because of penalty hearing still to occur and/or appeals being lodged. Or do they strongly anticipate that ASADA and WADA will lodge an appeal if players are found not-guilty.
Honestly I don't think you can make a strong claim any way for the pre-determined outcome.
I can understand if they are found guilty of the charge and still have to sit out because of penalty hearing still to occur and/or appeals being lodged. Or do they strongly anticipate that ASADA and WADA will lodge an appeal if players are found not-guilty.
Honestly I don't think you can make a strong claim any way for the pre-determined outcome.
- Banned
- #68
I have to say that if it is "not guilty" then Essendon people would rightly have an axe to grind.
Such a verdict with "reasons to be published" shouldn't upset too many (outside of the decision itself). A guilty verdict, however, would surely require reasons immediately.
Yet you claim he is conditioning the public for the known verdict. Pot. Kettle...
And don't act like the EFC have stood by and done nothing for the last 2 years. They have had ample opportunity to refute the "limited facts" or show they are innocent through their media mouth pieces. They have instead chosen to play victim, blame others and muddy the waters.
Groan......
This is a matter under the auspices of a sporting code, a professional League et al. It's not a criminal matter.
Now I am not a law talking guy at all, but I'm pretty sure presumption of innocence doesn't apply here. Under the agreements signed by all parties, as far as I know, the onus is on the athlete to prove they didn't take anything or have extenuating circumstances.
As for the rest, I'm not sure where to begin. The situation surrounding Essendon and the charged players looks as dodgy as hell. If the players escape any sanction at all, it will look worse.
It will make the league look even more amateur than it already does not to mention that it is run by a boys club with a very long reach.
I'm not sure how disapproving of this situation makes anyone ignorant or ill informed.
And as far as being ill informed goes.......well some people who were in the box seat of this whole scandal have promised several times to reveal information that would set the record straight, get the players off, put us in a much better place etc. This hasn't happened yet.
If said people could put their money where their mouths are, then I'd be better informed wouldn't I....
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I'm living in a world where Luke Darcy is working as a sports reporter guy....
If it looks like a turd, smells like a turd and has the consistency of a turd I usually come to the conclusion it's a turd. No turd tribunal is going to change my mind.
History is littered with cases were wrong doers were exonerated by dodgy investigations and courts.
Strapping Young Lad
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- #73
Dang. That's a nice dose of reality for us all.
Dave
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Not referring to the criminal code. Referring to the rules of the sport. You know, the ones that don't say players should be suspended on Bruce's vibe.
Good Faith? Hasn't existed since Jesus played center half back for Jerusalem.
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It's a reasonable point of view, but could have done without the tribalism and media witch hunt theme. There's been some pretty ordinary moments along the way on both counts, true: but only the truly deluded could manage to ascribe either factor to be the main game or the driving force of the case.
We could also do without the much abused phrase presumed innocent (until proven guilty), too. It's rarely if ever been used accurately on this board - instead it's been impregnated with all sorts of meanings which it simply does not have. There are at this moment in excess of 25,000 innocent until proven guilty Australians behind bars.
