Goulburn Valley FL 2015

["The Roar Is Back"]

Big call Roar ... and pretty simplistic. While we all abhor drugs in our sport death penalty is harsh. It is a bit more complex than that. Anyway, this is a footy forum ....

Trafficking silver .
I was heavily involved in trying to get random testing last year and it was to be fully funded .
AFL Vic Country wanted nothing of it and expressed that they would not support it or any procedure that was brought in to assist those identified through the random testing .
A club wanted someone to come and talk to them about ice and AFL Vic Country had next to nothing .
We all get sucked into the lies and bullshit that are coming out about what AFL Vic Country are doing that the VCFL didn't or couldn't do , but trust me football clubs are worst off at all levels .
The training and education program/system Dean Rice use to run and assist with things like drugs use , bullying , racism , mentoring etc etc is gone .
Whilst the costs to run footy clubs has risen in all areas , including auskick for Christ sake, at a time footy numbers are declining .
I am a traditionalist and believe footy clubs should be a means for assisting the community which includes those square peg types who don't necessarily fit in the round holes that certain communities may otherwise provide . The footy community should be about building the community football clubs not making cash at a cost of the football community.
Unfortunately some in high places salaries are based on the opposite and AFL VIC Country have indentified those who are prepared to lie ,don't give a s**t about communities yet are amazing spin doctors for the top jobs ...

 

[Turbos mail]

Fev and cousins are a good example of the difference between alcohol and drugs .
Both had a addition or abuse of a substance . Fev although kicked out of afl has been able to have somewhat a normal life no one gets on ice has it on moderation and / or doesn't die from the s**t , normally after destroying everyone else they knows life .
Alcohol on mass may be the biggest issue , because more people abuse alcohol . However in relative terms ice leaves anything else for dead .

Need to be careful here I think. Cousins was addicted to drugs and west coast were probably aware of it, as some other players were also on it and one actually died. Agree all were good players so did they turn a blind eye? I say they did..
Fev has no drug issues to my knowledge but more a gambling problem and did seem to have an issue with achohol.
I think we need to be careful to seperate the two..

Agree they are both addictive but no one goes and sells achohol to others in car parks. This ice is illegal and people are known to profit from selling it.

 

[Woody Woodman]

This is great debating, these are discussions that need to be had. Did anyone on here go to the drug and alcohol forum that was recently held at the Mooroopna footy club?

 

[johnno#7]

This is great debating, these are discussions that need to be had. Did anyone on here go to the drug and alcohol forum that was recently held at the Mooroopna footy club?

Wouldn't say they need to be had, as no program or system is going to be put in place as a result of these discussions. Just keyboard warriors pumping there own tyres up spreading their own "wisdom" and knowledge! Let the clubs deal with these issues and back them in to handle it appropriately. Is Mellington still playing at benella??

 

[toxic]

Yeah fair point Woody as in reality the `can bar' is a huge earner for all clubs. Tricky business. At what point do clubs put welfare prior to.profit?

So its the RSA versus RSI

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Wouldn't say they need to be had, as no program or system is going to be put in place as a result of these discussions. Just keyboard warriors pumping there own tyres up spreading their own "wisdom" and knowledge! Let the clubs deal with these issues and back them in to handle it appropriately. Is Mellington still playing at benella??

Why do you have a issue with people spreading their knowledge , they not saying what you want to hear ??

 

[jayco13]

Wouldn't say they need to be had, as no program or system is going to be put in place as a result of these discussions. Just keyboard warriors pumping there own tyres up spreading their own "wisdom" and knowledge! Let the clubs deal with these issues and back them in to handle it appropriately. Is Mellington still playing at benella??

This is a very simplistic and narrow minded view johnno. Many of these 'keyboard warriors' as you so eloquently put it, may actually be presidents, secretary's or even just volunteers of clubs who may start, or have already begun talking, to other members of their or rival clubs about the matter. This is exactly how programs and systems are started.. Do you think the magically appear out of thin air.. No they start with a simple discussion, whether it's person to person, or on a forum such as big footy. Then they get brought up at club meeting, then league meetings and so on. To get on here and bag blokes for having this discussion makes you more of a keyboard warrior than the others. This is an extremely serious problem in society at the moment and discussions such as this one should be applauded.

 

[ROOTA#6]

This is a very simplistic and narrow minded view johnno. Many of these 'keyboard warriors' as you so eloquently put it, may actually be presidents, secretary's or even just volunteers of clubs who may start, or have already begun talking, to other members of their or rival clubs about the matter. This is exactly how programs and systems are started.. Do you think the magically appear out of thin air.. No they start with a simple discussion, whether it's person to person, or on a forum such as big footy. Then they get brought up at club meeting, then league meetings and so on. To get on here and bag blokes for having this discussion makes you more of a keyboard warrior than the others. This is an extremely serious problem in society at the moment and discussions such as this one should be applauded.

Very well said

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

Wouldn't say they need to be had, as no program or system is going to be put in place as a result of these discussions. Just keyboard warriors pumping there own tyres up spreading their own "wisdom" and knowledge! Let the clubs deal with these issues and back them in to handle it appropriately. Is Mellington still playing at benella??

 

[Silver Tongue]

Need to be careful here I think. Cousins was addicted to drugs and west coast were probably aware of it, as some other players were also on it and one actually died. Agree all were good players so did they turn a blind eye? I say they did..
Fev has no drug issues to my knowledge but more a gambling problem and did seem to have an issue with achohol.
I think we need to be careful to seperate the two..

Agree they are both addictive but no one goes and sells achohol to others in car parks. This ice is illegal and people are known to profit from selling it.

Yep one illegal, highly addictive, and performance enhansng ... the other legal, addictive and potentially performance 'inhibiting' ...

 

[Woody Woodman]

Wouldn't say they need to be had, as no program or system is going to be put in place as a result of these discussions. Just keyboard warriors pumping there own tyres up spreading their own "wisdom" and knowledge! Let the clubs deal with these issues and back them in to handle it appropriately. Is Mellington still playing at benella??

Really? I'll be working hard to make sure that a policy is designed and introduced at our club. How do clubs handle these problems without support Johnno. I bring my "wisdom" as a father, teacher, mandated reporter to DHS, confidante of parents etc, etc but I'm not a social worker, ambo, police officer, doctor, nurse etc. Collective wisdom is needed, does every club have that? Which club method are you backing? Hang them out dry? Oh you're clean now but we still don't want you? Maybe you have missed the transient nature of some of these people. Give me your wisdom Johnno, or are you just a keyboard blocker?

 

[Woody Woodman]

Wouldn't say they need to be had, as no program or system is going to be put in place as a result of these discussions. Just keyboard warriors pumping there own tyres up spreading their own "wisdom" and knowledge! Let the clubs deal with these issues and back them in to handle it appropriately. Is Mellington still playing at benella??

I should have remembered, you're the oxygen thief who calls people "dumbass" and "nuffy" for making predictions after round two. That would make you a self inflator because you're opinion is so much more valuable.

 

[Woody Woodman]

View attachment 119417

Gold!

 

[Silver Tongue]

Based upon Johnno's record of posting he appears to have a keyboard form of tourette's syndrome. Wake up, type something involuntary and irresistably insulting, or ridiculous, and then disappear again until the next event....

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

Given the importance of this would it warrant a separate thread so people from other leagues may feel free to join and perhaps a more united front can be formed??

Roar, would you be willing to share with others in such a thread the plans you had that afl vic didn't support?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Given the importance of this would it warrant a separate thread so people from other leagues may feel free to join and perhaps a more united front can be formed??

Roar, would you be willing to share with others in such a thread the plans you had that afl vic didn't support?

No issue at all wilty .
There are few thoughts I'd like to express firstly which is from personal experience and relates predominately to reclusive type kids who lack confidence . In my experience many kids play football who fit in this bracket , some are extremely talented and are actually afraid to give something a red hot go , if not assisted they often become even more lacking of confidence and turn to other things such as drugs , alcohol abuse etc etc .
The program which was proposed was to give these types who have turned to drugs, once identified , the confidence to beat the possible addiction without any shame or retribution.
My experience has shown many reclusive types don't like going to life education type sessions especially with large numbers of people .
1. Random test players by way of saliva test , much the same as some employees are now tested upon arrival at work . To maintain the integrity and confidentiality it was proposed that AFL Vic Country investigation officers be trained and conduct the testing.
2. Once identified the investigation officer would contact the player inform him of his positive test and arrange for 2 compulsory one one one drug education sessions.
3. Once identified and before attending both the compulsory sessions the player can not be transferred to another club. Therefore them just packing up and going elsewhere without getting help and avoid taking there issue to another club.
4. If the player didn't attend the session within 14 days of being identified the clubs appointed contact would be advised .
All costings had been done , educators and investigating officers had been sourced and AFL Vic country said it wouldn't support it along the lines that we were trying to assist rec drug use not performance and the AFL VIC Country policy didn't cover it . Whilst the AFL policy that did cover it required testing as per wada/ASADA testing and penalties handed down would be as per ASADA / wada . Our proposal was to test 1000 players per year . The 1000 spit testing, training , tester costs was estimated to come at a cost of about $30k. The wada/ ASADA tests were quoted at $2500 each and the worst thing from our point of few was based on handing out penalties to those found guilty rather than discreetly assisting them .

For what is worth I believe the alleged action against ice , people may have heard re GVFL, is actually a MANUP seminar that is being held in Shepparton by AFLGM . The MANUP program has been around for quite a while and is far from drug specific . Unfortunately those who could benefit most won't turn up and it's about time AFLGM realised football within the region they cover , is also played outside of Shepparton.
Feel free to pick the eyes out of the suggestion as I am happy to hear others thoughts .

 

[Silver Tongue]

No issue at all wilty .
There are few thoughts I'd like to express firstly which is from personal experience and relates predominately to reclusive type kids who lack confidence . In my experience many kids play football who fit in this bracket , some are extremely talented and are actually afraid to give something a red hot go , if not assisted they often become even more lacking of confidence and turn to other things such as drugs , alcohol abuse etc etc .
The program which was proposed was to give these types who have turned to drugs, once identified , the confidence to beat the possible addiction without any shame or retribution.
My experience has shown many reclusive types don't like going to life education type sessions especially with large numbers of people .
1. Random test players by way of saliva test , much the same as some employees are now tested upon arrival at work . To maintain the integrity and confidentiality it was proposed that AFL Vic Country investigation officers be trained and conduct the testing.
2. Once identified the investigation officer would contact the player inform him of his positive test and arrange for 2 compulsory one one one drug education sessions.
3. Once identified and before attending both the compulsory sessions the player can not be transferred to another club. Therefore them just packing up and going elsewhere without getting help and avoid taking there issue to another club.
4. If the player didn't attend the session within 14 days of being identified the clubs appointed contact would be advised .
All costings had been done , educators and investigating officers had been sourced and AFL Vic country said it wouldn't support it along the lines that we were trying to assist rec drug use not performance and the AFL VIC Country policy didn't cover it . Whilst the AFL policy that did cover it required testing as per wada/ASADA testing and penalties handed down would be as per ASADA / wada . Our proposal was to test 1000 players per year . The 1000 spit testing, training , tester costs was estimated to come at a cost of about $30k. The wada/ ASADA tests were quoted at $2500 each and the worst thing from our point of few was based on handing out penalties to those found guilty rather than discreetly assisting them .

For what is worth I believe the alleged action against ice , people may have heard re GVFL, is actually a MANUP seminar that is being held in Shepparton by AFLGM . The MANUP program has been around for quite a while and is far from drug specific . Unfortunately those who could benefit most won't turn up and it's about time AFLGM realised football within the region they cover , is also played outside of Shepparton.
Feel free to pick the eyes out of the suggestion as I am happy to hear others thoughts .

Well said Roar. I am admiring your work and take on board your views. You are doing a magnificent job.

 

[bradrowe#32]

You know what might stamp it out?.....25 year sentences for dealing the crap! But no lets let these guys back out in a couple of months to spread more misery and death. Anyway only a week until the GV kicks off. Was chatting to an Echuca identity who was brimming with confidence heading into the Rochy game.

Are Weeks and Sirett playing for Rochy in the first round? That would tip it in Rochy's favour.

 

[Silver Tongue]

Are Weeks and Sirett playing for Rochy in the first round? That would tip it in Rochy's favour.

Nope

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

No issue at all wilty .
There are few thoughts I'd like to express firstly which is from personal experience and relates predominately to reclusive type kids who lack confidence . In my experience many kids play football who fit in this bracket , some are extremely talented and are actually afraid to give something a red hot go , if not assisted they often become even more lacking of confidence and turn to other things such as drugs , alcohol abuse etc etc .
The program which was proposed was to give these types who have turned to drugs, once identified , the confidence to beat the possible addiction without any shame or retribution.
My experience has shown many reclusive types don't like going to life education type sessions especially with large numbers of people .
1. Random test players by way of saliva test , much the same as some employees are now tested upon arrival at work . To maintain the integrity and confidentiality it was proposed that AFL Vic Country investigation officers be trained and conduct the testing.
2. Once identified the investigation officer would contact the player inform him of his positive test and arrange for 2 compulsory one one one drug education sessions.
3. Once identified and before attending both the compulsory sessions the player can not be transferred to another club. Therefore them just packing up and going elsewhere without getting help and avoid taking there issue to another club.
4. If the player didn't attend the session within 14 days of being identified the clubs appointed contact would be advised .
All costings had been done , educators and investigating officers had been sourced and AFL Vic country said it wouldn't support it along the lines that we were trying to assist rec drug use not performance and the AFL VIC Country policy didn't cover it . Whilst the AFL policy that did cover it required testing as per wada/ASADA testing and penalties handed down would be as per ASADA / wada . Our proposal was to test 1000 players per year . The 1000 spit testing, training , tester costs was estimated to come at a cost of about $30k. The wada/ ASADA tests were quoted at $2500 each and the worst thing from our point of few was based on handing out penalties to those found guilty rather than discreetly assisting them .

For what is worth I believe the alleged action against ice , people may have heard re GVFL, is actually a MANUP seminar that is being held in Shepparton by AFLGM . The MANUP program has been around for quite a while and is far from drug specific . Unfortunately those who could benefit most won't turn up and it's about time AFLGM realised football within the region they cover , is also played outside of Shepparton.
Feel free to pick the eyes out of the suggestion as I am happy to hear others thoughts .

Legally being that country footy isn't classed as a workplace is the problem that random testing isn't permissable legally on the grounds of Rec drug use. But if there is evidence of performance enhancing use then legally random tests can be conducted?? Is that the obstacle afl vic have??

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Legally being that country footy isn't classed as a workplace is the problem that random testing isn't permissable legally on the grounds of Rec drug use. But if there is evidence of performance enhancing use then legally random tests can be conducted?? Is that the obstacle afl vic have??

No wilty legal ramifications based on grounds of invading privacy were not indicated from legal advice sourced nor by afl vic country . There were similar privacy concerns surrounding the cyber policy when it was first discussed .
I clearly remember the response re ICE .
'It's only a small issue in some places , we will see what we can do about some education'
Scott Beattie was instrumental in running some very very good educational sessions as has valley sports , the issue is there is no follow up or support given by AFL VIC Country .
Like cyber bullying, education is part of the process and has a real positive impact on those who attend , it doesn't however have any affect on those that don't .
Ice is a major issue and if AFL Vic Country are serious about it they should implement a policy to address it .
I don't doubt or question the affect of cyber bullying by any means . However I do struggle to accept that ICE is having a lesser affect at football clubs than cyber bullying .
Does offering someone a highly addictive drug that destroys there body and remainder of those whom know them have less affect telling someone they are xyor z upon the internet ?? I don't think so .
I do however know that less is being supplied to support clubs under afl vic country than was offered and provided under VCFL , which introduced the cyber safety policy .

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

Can you give a but more detail on costings post testing.
What would be the cost of the one on one education sessions?
Or would educators be employed for a set time regardless of number of one on one sessions provided?
Are they educators or counsellors that could be used for other issues such as gambling etc if they were employed by a league?

 

[innercircle]

An interesting discussion i had with a user who was seeking support to get off it and has tried unsuccessfully several times was that the current drug and alcohol services only provide service if you are currently using. If you have quit or maybe at risk of relapse then you don't receive any further counseling. Services only work with current users.
Not sure this is the best approach if true, as most people would relapse several times you would think.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Can you give a but more detail on costings post testing.
What would be the cost of the one on one education sessions?
Or would educators be employed for a set time regardless of number of one on one sessions provided?
Are they educators or counsellors that could be used for other issues such as gambling etc if they were employed by a league?

Multiple educators/ counsellors in multiple areas as it was felt it was the best way of anonymity and therefore encourage those affected to continue seeking help beyond the two sessions provided at no cost to them . Not multiple use , drug and alcohol abuse specific .
Costings were based on $85 per session as some areas had very good services available at no cost some didn't .

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

Multiple educators/ counsellors in multiple areas as it was felt it was the best way of anonymity and therefore encourage those affected to continue seeking help beyond the two sessions provided at no cost to them . Not multiple use , drug and alcohol abuse specific .
Costings were based on $85 per session as some areas had very good services available at no cost some didn't .

how was it to be funded?
The counselling costs are of top of testing costs?? How are they funded?