I think Whatley has been way off at times. I still think Caro has not really put a foot wrong apart from claiming Hird had been sacked towards the end of last year.
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I think Whatley has been way off at times. I still think Caro has not really put a foot wrong apart from claiming Hird had been sacked towards the end of last year.
NoAFLinmycomp
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It will be if the only form of "Thymosin" that can be shown to have been on premise at EFC, was TB4. Then by default, the only Thymosin that could have been injected was the "bad" one.
That would have been EFC's challenge, to show that there was a supply trail of "good Thymosin"; and/or to challenge and reduce the degree of probability of ASADA's trail of TB4 having ended up on premise, to be lower than "comfortable satisfaction".
DapperJong
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Pantskyle
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Welcome to the justice system
gutsroy
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Both fair assessments, and the waters have been that muddied by all of the claims and counter-claims that no matter the verdict, conjecture will continue.
In the lead up to every judgement in various episodes of this saga the Essendon cheer squad have sprouted overly optimistic prognostications on the outcome of said judgements. I get the feeling they will just as wide of the mark this time as they have been previously.
But..........I could be wrong.
scalesofjustice
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my favourite rumour is 'insufficient evidence' LOL
Yeah thats why ASADA's submissions took 6 days. I give credit to most Bomber supporters here though as I haven't seen many of them take that bait.
Yeah thats why ASADA's submissions took 6 days. I give credit to most Bomber supporters here though as I haven't seen many of them take that bait.
Keys
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Whatever the verdict I just hope we get a true and full account of what happened, or at least the evidence that ASADA submitted to the tribunal so that we are able to make a reasonably informed opinion on the merits of the decision. If players are suspended I think it's fair that Essendon supporters are given details of why a guilty verdict was reached and conversely if the verdict is not guilty we should be allowed to see what it was ASADA had to justify the turmoil this saga has created.
Unfortunately, I very much doubt we will get much more than trust us we made the right decision.
Unfortunately, I very much doubt we will get much more than trust us we made the right decision.
sonnywalters
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You mean the guy who narrow-mindedly obsessed over AOD for 6 months straight and said ASADA had nothing and it will all be over a year ago because ASADA stuffed up over AOD? That same guy?
whitelinefeva
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Cronulla didn't embarass ASADA. They came forward and saved face for both parties. Essendon wagered an 'all or nothing' campaign and left no room for a mutually beneficial outcome.
You can't embarrass a government department and expect to win. Essendon got caught in a political s**t storm. The odds were labor be liberal vs greens (3 vs 1) against bombers vs competition (16 vs 1).
EFC were poorly governed and politically naive. As a volunteer administration you can excuse their lackadaisical approach. Had it been the Bulldogs, demons or saints you'd excuse the governance oversight for a lack of resource. But given the assumed affluence of the EFC board they are held to a higher standard. If the GWS board oversaw similar oversights would the pursuit of justice be the same (and would a weaker club exist post scrutiny?)?
On Tuesday a negotiated outcome will be revealed. There will be no winners and there will be no losers.
You can't embarrass a government department and expect to win. Essendon got caught in a political s**t storm. The odds were labor be liberal vs greens (3 vs 1) against bombers vs competition (16 vs 1).
EFC were poorly governed and politically naive. As a volunteer administration you can excuse their lackadaisical approach. Had it been the Bulldogs, demons or saints you'd excuse the governance oversight for a lack of resource. But given the assumed affluence of the EFC board they are held to a higher standard. If the GWS board oversaw similar oversights would the pursuit of justice be the same (and would a weaker club exist post scrutiny?)?
On Tuesday a negotiated outcome will be revealed. There will be no winners and there will be no losers.
sonnywalters
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Brace yourselves BigFooty.
The full AFL PR and Media Spin Machine headed by (Ex bomber spin merchant) Liz Lukin is preparing to spin its way into action this week.
Their mission - make Dank the scapegoat and push the 'Dank went rogue' angle hard. Also to get 'influential' media personalities and 'journalists' on board to push this angle. Then to push very very hard that the players were 'duped' and poor little baby victims of big bad Dank.
We all know its coming.
Brace yourselves and bring a spew bucket.
Channel 7 are probably shooting a Timmy/Jobe Watson puff piece as we speak. Possibly from a fake orphanage.
The full AFL PR and Media Spin Machine headed by (Ex bomber spin merchant) Liz Lukin is preparing to spin its way into action this week.
Their mission - make Dank the scapegoat and push the 'Dank went rogue' angle hard. Also to get 'influential' media personalities and 'journalists' on board to push this angle. Then to push very very hard that the players were 'duped' and poor little baby victims of big bad Dank.
We all know its coming.
Brace yourselves and bring a spew bucket.
Channel 7 are probably shooting a Timmy/Jobe Watson puff piece as we speak. Possibly from a fake orphanage.
Keys
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I agree that we are in for a blitz of the players were duped, they have battled incredible hardship, have suffered enough etc to help justify minimal bans should they be found guilty.
In fairness, I do genuinely believe they were misled and are guilty of stupidity more so than deliberately cheating. Problem is the Dank went rogue angle is bullshit as there were/are others at the club balls deep in the deception and they won't expose Dank for fear that he will expose them before he goes down as the sacrificial lamb
sonnywalters
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You may well be right and they might go easy on our old mate Danky boy.
Or maybe the AFL will do a cash deal with him?
Let us destroy your reputation and career but here is a million in hush money. Now go away.
The AFL are nothing if not 'fixers' and guys like Little and Kelty would get off on the whole cloak and dagger stuff.
Proper Gander
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One of two (well, 3) things happen Tuesday.
34 players are found guilty.
Some of 34 players are found guilty.
No players are found guilty.
For me, it ends exactly there. I accept whatever the tribunal decision is as the only decision possible in the time and circumstances. If the players get off - okay, I'll be surprised, but I'll live with it. I won't be yodelling online about justice, booing EFC players or boycotting games. Round one starts (finally) and off we go. Any other response is just wrong.
I didn't mention Dank. I don't want to. For Dank I have nothing but distain.
34 players are found guilty.
Some of 34 players are found guilty.
No players are found guilty.
For me, it ends exactly there. I accept whatever the tribunal decision is as the only decision possible in the time and circumstances. If the players get off - okay, I'll be surprised, but I'll live with it. I won't be yodelling online about justice, booing EFC players or boycotting games. Round one starts (finally) and off we go. Any other response is just wrong.
I didn't mention Dank. I don't want to. For Dank I have nothing but distain.
I still think that WADA will call the AFL out for being an embarrassment to sport if this happens. Those who take the suspension normally do a lot better, and it will let this saga finally come to an end. For example, Warne got banned and you'd hear very few people not talk about him as a great or even mention it after.
If the AFL and Essendon try to make up their own rules to dodge any bans, Essendon's name will probably be dragged through the mud for another year in the spotlight as WADA comes over the top. There is no way that WADA will accept that being involved in a backroom injection program was naivity no matter how good Liz's spin is.
while they played. Backdated while they played.
I agree it fits in the framework, if you twist it like a pretzel. But I do find it fairly amusing to think of the reaction this board would have had if it was suggested that could happen before it did. You'd be laughed off the board, and all the usual suspects would be banging on about how WADA would NEVER EVER allow that to happen and they'd come over the top and swoop in and bounce it to CAS faster than you can say "hey, maybe I really don't know what WADA are thinking"
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Seriously? How sad is this board. The Herald sun published ASADAs full list of substances that included Thymomodulin. We know that Thymomodulin was at EFC.
I know some of you are very invested in seeing playes banned, but let's not ignore common sense.
Whateley nailed the AOD s**t a long, long way out, when everybody was going mental on it.
99.9% of media s**t in this crap is opinion, which comes straight out of your ring.
Hawkers
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It's started. Read Matthew Lloyd's attempt at an article in todays Age. Spew worthy.
Some quotes
"A guilty verdict against the 34 Essendon players on Tuesday will be catastrophic for the Essendon Football Club and the game"
"It makes me wonder whether the AFL, Essendon or ASADA will be equipped to handle the tidal wave of anger and emotion in the event of a guilty verdict. I shudder to think of the ramifications that will engulf our game and my old club. "
No Matthew. A guilty verdict will not be the end of the world, if they did take the drugs and got a guilty verdict then it's fully deserved. The AFL will continue on as it always has and we can only hope that EFC and the players cop their fair whack - that's the right and just thing to do.
The reason that it's the right thing is because Essendon cheated - that's unfair and unjust on all the other clubs.
There will be no weeping and gnashing of teeth over a guilty verdict. It will be vindication for the football loving public
I can understand that those that are part of the AFL spin machine think it being a bad thing for a guilty verdict but understand that you're wrong.
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The AFL is run by a bunch of amateurs and the brand lacks any integrity.
Essendon will field a full side next weekend.
Essendon will field a full side next weekend.
NoAFLinmycomp
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Do you mean the legendary, folded, crumpled, "photo of a photo" and Wallis' belated spreadsheet?
Sorry, but I was referencing a supply trail, not an amateur, belated and hasty coverup. The interim report from 2+ years ago already had a solid base for a supply trail for TB4. I wouldn't rely on common sense on this one, as the behaviour reported to have been coming out of EFC management team at that time, was far from "common" (unless by common, you mean "90s professional cycling team common").
We may know a bit more on Tuesday.
And for the record, I am definately invested, but I couldn't give a #### about an expanded VFL club and it losing players due to suspensions - I want a clean and fair game and the AFL's claws out of my state league.
And at the moment it would appear that I have about the same chance of getttng either - buckleys!
Great name by the way - one of our legends, albeit a brief one. Only the second CDFC player to win a Magarey.
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tigerdan
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Surely the afl already know the outcome, right? It's not going to a hush while gillon opens the envelope and says "and the winner is Sydney ", is it?
Which still seems like it wad spot on until Hird held them down and said "no you don't, if i walk i talk"
This article has a list of the agents found on the AFL charge sheet, discussed by Dr Peter Bruckner http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/what-drugs-are-they-on-about-20130822-2seks.html
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