yeah i think agar is doomed to a life of having to do twice as much as the next best guy just to get a look from the selectors
ODI Spinner, who's the next candidate?
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Getting his bowling average under 40 may help, too.
Hopefully Doherty has played his last game for Australia.
Half tracker city! **** me, he was awful.
Zach Package
Prespakis2Tsatas
Boyce would actually be my first choice, closely followed by Agar.
Think Agar is really starting to get it and is going to go from strength to strength in all three forms
Think Agar is really starting to get it and is going to go from strength to strength in all three forms
Lyon would be my choice. Great in the field and does a good job with the ball in hand. Agar is slowly building. Looks to be developing a nice all round game.
Wouldn't mind seeing Jon Holland throw a few down in the ODI team.
Wouldn't mind seeing Jon Holland throw a few down in the ODI team.
eth-dog
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Been watching a lot of the Matador's Cup, and it's as clear as day to me that Jon Holland has been the pick of the spinners. Let's compare the spinners for the tournament:
Mitchell Swepson: 4 wickets, average 58.5, econ rate 5.08, strike rate 69
Nathan Lyon: 7 wickets, average 31, econ rate 5.02, strike rate 37
Stephen O'Keefe: 7 wickets, average 24.28, econ rate 4.25, strike rate 34.2
Cameron Boyce: 6 wickets, average 40.5, econ rate 5.4, strike rate 45
Adam Zampa: 11 wickets, average 32.09, econ rate 5.04, strike rate 38.1
Tom Andrews: 9 wickets, average 30.44, econ rate 4.72, strike rate 38.6
Xavier Doherty: 5 wickets, average 43, econ rate 4.21, strike rate 61.2
Clive Rose: 3 wickets, average 39, econ rate 4.68, strike rate 50
Jon Holland: 14 wickets, average 17.85, econ rate 4.09, strike rate 26.1
Ashton Agar: 6 wickets, average 45, econ rate 5.29, strike rate 51
For me the order should quite clearly be:
1. Holland
2. Zampa
-----------------------------
The rest.
Holland has put his credentials forward quite clearly now. Need to get him into the ODI side.
Mitchell Swepson: 4 wickets, average 58.5, econ rate 5.08, strike rate 69
Nathan Lyon: 7 wickets, average 31, econ rate 5.02, strike rate 37
Stephen O'Keefe: 7 wickets, average 24.28, econ rate 4.25, strike rate 34.2
Cameron Boyce: 6 wickets, average 40.5, econ rate 5.4, strike rate 45
Adam Zampa: 11 wickets, average 32.09, econ rate 5.04, strike rate 38.1
Tom Andrews: 9 wickets, average 30.44, econ rate 4.72, strike rate 38.6
Xavier Doherty: 5 wickets, average 43, econ rate 4.21, strike rate 61.2
Clive Rose: 3 wickets, average 39, econ rate 4.68, strike rate 50
Jon Holland: 14 wickets, average 17.85, econ rate 4.09, strike rate 26.1
Ashton Agar: 6 wickets, average 45, econ rate 5.29, strike rate 51
For me the order should quite clearly be:
1. Holland
2. Zampa
-----------------------------
The rest.
Holland has put his credentials forward quite clearly now. Need to get him into the ODI side.
LukeParkerno1
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No thanks. Would much rather mould the next test spinner in the ODI arena whether that be Zamoa, Boyce or Agar.
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CA rate Dutchy very, very highly
Boyce showed great signs 12-18 months ago. How far down the pecking order is he?
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Holland is a very good one-day bowler, but am I right in saying he is a liability in the field and with the bat? That could cost him
I don't see Zampa as a likely Test spinner, so would probably prefer him to be tried in ODIs at home. That way Agar plays Shield cricket, developing more for a possible Test role in the future.
There are away tours and almost four years before the World Cup. There is plenty of time for the listed options, and any others, to get games in a variety of conditions. Missing a few games now isn't likely to impact on Agar's possible inclusion in a WC squad and, provided you stay top eight, ODI results don't count for much outside a WC.
There are away tours and almost four years before the World Cup. There is plenty of time for the listed options, and any others, to get games in a variety of conditions. Missing a few games now isn't likely to impact on Agar's possible inclusion in a WC squad and, provided you stay top eight, ODI results don't count for much outside a WC.
Spitta Andretti
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Why not Maxwell? Australia can play five quality seamers anyway. Starc Johnson Coulter-Nile M.Marsh Faulkner. The spinner is just an extra luxury, somebody to come on for a few overs if its turning or if one of the seamers is having a bad day. Might as well pick somebody who offers a lot with the bat as well.
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Who do you consider mediocre? Starc is the best ODI quick in the world, Coulter-Nile and Johnson are pretty good and Faulkner is the most irreplaceable player in the XI. I guess Marsh is the worst of the seamers, but he's taking wickets in test cricket so he deserves a bit of a run in the ODI side.
Having five seamers in the attack isn't much of a problem when there is so much variety. They're all different sorts of bowlers with different strengths and weaknesses. It's not the same as for example England picking Broad, Anderson, Graeme Onions, and two other medium pace trundlers. I agree with you that five seamers is a problem but only if they're all the same type of bowler.
Staying with England, they don't have a specialist spinner either. They play Moeen and/or Rashid, who are pretty much in the same ballpark as Maxwell.
eth-dog
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Faulkner most irreplacable? My god, he's good but not worth it if he's batting 7 or below. Marsh adds nothing to the attack. Literally nothing. Yeah his better batting is a bit of an asset but it's not as if he's Jacques Kallis. Also, he's taken 9 wickets in 7 tests. Hardly awe-inspiring stuff.
England are a terrible ODI team, as shown by the fact that they were knocked out in the group stage of the WC. Why the hell would you use them as a reference as an ODI team?
Faulkner is immensely overrated. Calling him irreplaceable is hilarious.
Carbine Chaos
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Faulkner is one of the most valuable ODI players in the world.
Spitta Andretti
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Faulkner is indeed the most irreplaceable member of the XI, because nobody else can both bowl and bat as well as he can. It doesn't matter if he bats at 8 or 9, all that will do is give licence to the batsmen ahead of him to play their shots knowing he's still in the shed. He is to the current Australian side what Lance Klusner was to South Africa. There are no other allrounders in world cricket anywhere near as good as Faulkner. For these reasons I feel justified in considering him the first name on the team sheet. For every Steve Smith there is a Kohli or a de Villiers and for every Starc there is a Steyn or a Rabada. Faulkner on the other hand gives Australia a weapon no other team possesses.
It's funny you should mention Kallis, he was a crap ODI player. Maybe back in the '90s and early '00s when a 250+ score pretty much guaranteed a win, a dour defensive batsman like a Kallis or a Dravid or Trott would have been handy to have in a side; but today if you can't regularly score at a minimum SR of 85 you're only going to pile pressure on your team mates. The old strategy of "make sure we bat out the 50 overs" is gone, it's all about scoring as many runs as you can and paying no attention to the wickets column. There is no difference between 250 all out in 40 overs and 5/250 in 50 overs. And so, proper batsmen are no longer the order of the day, you need to stack your XI with as many sloggers as can fit. Marsh can hit boundaries easily, so to my mind he is automatically far more valuable with the bat than somebody like Kallis could ever be in the modern era. As for his bowling ability, you have to give him a go, that's all I'm saying. Even if he fails there's going to be another seamer waiting in the wings to take his place. I think it smacks of slavery to convention to insist that a limited overs outfit needs a spinner to be complete, there's no evidence to support that right now. Perhaps if Australian seamers start getting smacked around you could make a case for a specialist spinner to be brought in, but they have wiped the floor with everyone in the past couple of years with seamers alone. Why change something that's working?
I brought up England because you said nobody else played with no specialist spinners, and that isn't the case, since they do not. And terrible or not, you can put your house on England making the final at least of the next World Cup. They are going to be the team to beat in 2019 courtesy of home advantage. They also aren't as bad right now, as you're making them out to be, having recently beaten NZ and also done well against Australia at home. The World Cup is history, bringing up how England played in Australia this summer has no bearing at all on the next World Cup.
Spitta Andretti
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Were you asleep during the World Cup final? Faulkner did enough there (with the ball alone, mind you) to silence every critic of his - if he had not already done so with his consistently excellent performances for Australia in previous series. Two wickets in the first three balls of the PowerPlay won the match for Australia after NZ had mounted a recovery with the Elliot - Taylor partnership. At 4/150 in the 35th over and with two set batsmen at the crease, they still could and should have reached a decent score; with sloggers Ronchi and Anderson still to come, 300+ was not outside the realms of possibility.
Faulkner, in three deliveries, undid the 23 over long sweat of Elliot and Taylor to drag NZ back into the contest; and kickstarted the cascade of lower order wickets restricting NZ to a small total.
Spitta Andretti
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Another matchwinning performance was his 3/48 against Sri Lanka in the group stage. Faulkner took the key wickets of Dilshan and Sangakkara, and his economy rate was unexpectedly vital to Australia's defence of 370-odd, pushing the required rate in the final 10 overs past what Sri Lanka's lower order could manage. Everyone else barring Starc disappeared around the park at 7, 8, 9, 10 runs an over. Faulkner gave some all-important control and took wickets during the middle overs and then came back later on to finish it off. If he wasn't in the side that day then Sri Lanka would have done the unthinkable and chased 377, probably by the 45th over or so, because Starc can only bowl 10 overs and can only bowl from one end; and Clarke would have been forced to bowl him out by the 35th over or so in search of wickets.
