Preview Round 1: Hawthorn vs Geelong - Easter Monday MCG (3.20pm)

[HODGEYROAD]

Cats board is pretty positive....Their all up and about talking up their chances....Apparently a bloke called Bews is going to conquer Cyril into submission

Who's Guthrie going to conquer into submission ?

 

[flinchfree]

• "He's a more rounded player than Cyril, so you could say he's a better player," one opposition coach said."

• "He's exciting and I think he is very much at the same level to what Cyril was, or maybe a touch ahead. If you put it in the context around the midfield then he is certainly ahead of Cyril at the moment." - Chris Johnson

• Essendon champion Matthew Lloyd was asked to compare the two stars on Channel 9's Footy Classified. "He (Motlop) has been far more consistent," he said. "Obviously Rioli has been around a lot longer, but in his short career Stevie Motlop finds more footy, kicks more goals and is more consistent."

I'm not saying these necessarily prove anything, just more to show that these discussions exist. I've also heard Garry Lyon criticise Rioli's output and you can find Hawk fans having said the same thing on these boards at various times.

I'm not doubting that was a special moment, but that's different to dominating the entire match to the point of single-handedly influencing the result which is how his performance is often spoken about. It's not like he got any Norm Smith votes or anything.

I don't think Cyril needs to get 'better', he's clearly capable of performing at an elite level as well as a very exciting one, my view is just that he needs to increase his output to realistically live up to his hype, or alternatively, the hype around him needs to die down a little bit to be more in line with reality. He's a great tackler and sometimes just chasing a guy will effect the kick even if he doesn't lay a hand on them, but it's also not like he's averaging 20 tackles a game for that to be enough to make up for his relatively average disposal numbers. His defensive pressure in the last two years relative to other players in the same positions was rated by Champion Data as above-average and average only.

You might take 15 of Rioli's possessions ahead of Motlop's 15, but Motlop averaged 19.5 last season, what if he averages 25 this year and kicks more goals than Rioli as well like he did 2 years ago? At some point the weight of numbers takes its toll. I think Motlop still needs to take the next step but if injury free, I think he'll do that this year. I feel that the reason Hawk fans get so defensive of Rioli is because they know he doesn't quite do enough but they still love him as they well should. This isn't even an attack on Cyril, I really think if he didn't have dodgy hammies he would be top 5 in the league, it's more just a calling out of all the carry on that surrounds him!

I think you make a fair and reasoned argument, it's just backwards, and not one Hawks fans agree with.
I had a similar discussion with Blues supporters on the main board about Sexton. Nearly every one of them called Sexton a Gun - not a very good player, a gun. For me, Johnno was a gun, Ashman was a gun, Judd is a gun, Sexton was meh - a good player and nothing more.
I went through the stats, showing his relatively few good years, his modest stats, etc., but was called out for trolling.
The argument ran, how many games of his did I watch, and that I underestimated his effect with said modest stats.
You know, there's no real argument with that thinking.
Hawk fans watch every game, are tough markers of their own players (not as you and other cats supporters suggest - blindly indulging), and have a keen sense of who is special, who pulls their weight, whose efforts - even if you were to deem them cameo - had greatest effect on the contest and result.
It's not as if Hawk supporters haven't seen greatness in their playing ranks, truly, we don't throw respect and adulation around THAT easily, so take it from those who should know best......Cyril Rioli is not just special, he's all time special.
Do we want to see it longer, undoubtedly. 25 possessions through the middle with no injuries and in the way he plays, he could maybe be the best ever hawk, he's THAT gifted.
But for many years Gary Ablett Sr was called mercurial, and it wasn't because he turned in a pearler in EVERY game he played, but because when he turned it on there was nothing like it. Certainly that would be a fair estimation of his first 5 or so playing seasons.
Give Cyril a couple more years before you pronounce him as leaving you wanting, and even then, know that your opinion or that of Mathew Lloyd's is simply that, just an opinion of someone from afar, not that of one who judges all his games and all his contests with the demanding eye of one of his own.

Best of luck getting sleep the night before to whoever on your team that mans up Cyril Rioli.
I think the Hawk that's given the Motlop assignment won't have nearly as much playing on his mind in the lead up to the game.

 

[Tuck In]

My dad once said don't argue with an idiot as bystanders won't know who is who. By placing Motlop into an arguement with Rioli they hope to believe that he is worthy of the debate. Ignore the shite, we don't need to debate. Every week there will be another from the opposition who they believe is better than an opposing Hawk based on a media drunk telling them so. Crush 'em and let them debate what they want.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Wonder if they'll risk Stevie Jay this early in the season with his foot n all....He'll likely need an injection if he plays & so we'll need a heavy tag on him for the first half, when he usually does most of his damage against us....Thereafter I'm thinking he won't be much of a threat once the adrenaline wears off.

 

[Roughies Boys]

Put the bottle down, Moose.

I understand now, I agree we will leave Shem for a more harder game later on in the year. Such a luxury to have him.

 

[eldorado]

I understand now, I agree we will leave Shem for a more harder game later on in the year. Such a luxury to have him.

Was going to post "not Sure if srs"

But one second thought...could not be serious...

 

[Steven Tyler]

That would have to have been one of the most bizzare and sooky/sour grapes comment I've ever seen, can you imagine Clarko doing that?

8 days to go and I still can't a reason why the cats will beat us.. Terrible clearance team and one paced defence, not sure how Rivers and Lonergan are going to handle Rough and Gunston as well as either Hale/Big boy or Ceg. Taylor will have to be accountable! Who will go to Cyril and Breust? Bews lol?

Forward line is great in the air but God help them when it hits the deck. I don't think they have one player with an inkling of pace? Bartel/Clark/Hawkins are pedestrian and Stokes is hardly nippy, who down there for the Cats will apply the manic pressure required to stop us cutting through them like surgeons?

Will be close for the most part but we will kick away.

Cockatoo will provide pace around the feet of their tall forwards, but it's a lot to ask a first gamer!

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Firstly all the best on Monday, let's hope it's another classic... ebbs and flows and edge of your seat excitement... they really are the best games win or lose.

Hawthorn have the clear edge in the ruck department and I'm not sure Simpson or McIntosh have the ability to counter either of Hale, McEvoy or Ceglar. It's hurt us in the last two finals and it will again. Hale's ability to push forward is a worry and we simply have nobody who can go with him.

In my opinion our backline is too one paced and relies on our midfield preventing quick supply to your forwards. It's paramount our midfield gain the ascendancy to prevent your explosive outside runners getting time and space to pin point your leading forwards. The only way we'll stop you from impacting the scoreboard is by forcing you to bomb long to your forwards, which plays into our hands. The respective midfields match up evenly, but I feel your impact in the ruck will prove a little more decisive, which is why I was hoping Stanley would prove his fitness and play a few games before round 1... make your big guys accountable by using his pace pushing forward.

The one area I think we can exploit Hawthorn, and I think it'll come as a surprise to you guys, is up forward. I think question marks surround Frawley and his ability to implement your structure and game style. He's not the quickest defender in terms of decision making and can make mistakes by foot, which doesn't compliment your defensive style... you like to move the ball swiftly and efficiently out of defense. I also feel, much like our back half, that he makes you a little too top heavy. Clark and Hawkins are looking ominous which makes for an intriguing battle ahead. We need both to dominate to be in with a chance.

Its an old cliche in football speak, but the midfield will decide this battle, and more importantly, our ability to find a way to counter Hale, Ceglar, McEvoy or whoever else is included to play ruck.

I'm hopeful rather than expectant of a win, but funnier things have happened.

Best of luck.

 

[tige19]

Firstly all the best on Monday, let's hope it's another classic... ebbs and flows and edge of your seat excitement... they really are the best games win or lose.

Hawthorn have the clear edge in the ruck department and I'm not sure Simpson or McIntosh have the ability to counter either of Hale, McEvoy or Ceglar. It's hurt us in the last two finals and it will again. Hale's ability to push forward is a worry and we simply have nobody who can go with him.

In my opinion our backline is too one paced and relies on our midfield preventing quick supply to your forwards. It's paramount our midfield gain the ascendancy to prevent your explosive outside runners getting time and space to pin point your leading forwards. The only way we'll stop you from impacting the scoreboard is by forcing you to bomb long to your forwards, which plays into our hands. The respective midfields match up evenly, but I feel your impact in the ruck will prove a little more decisive, which is why I was hoping Stanley would prove his fitness and play a few games before round 1... make your big guys accountable by using his pace pushing forward.

The one area I think we can exploit Hawthorn, and I think it'll come as a surprise to you guys, is up forward. I think question marks surround Frawley and his ability to implement your structure and game style. He's not the quickest defender in terms of decision making and can make mistakes by foot, which doesn't compliment your defensive style... you like to move the ball swiftly and efficiently out of defense. I also feel, much like our back half, that he makes you a little too top heavy. Clark and Hawkins are looking ominous which makes for an intriguing battle ahead. We need both to dominate to be in with a chance.

Its an old cliche in football speak, but the midfield will decide this battle, and more importantly, our ability to find a way to counter Hale, Ceglar, McEvoy or whoever else is included to play ruck.

I'm hopeful rather than expectant of a win, but funnier things have happened.

Best of luck.

Good stuff, hard to argue with. Provided Gibbo can peel off, Frawley will be 100% fine until he finds his feet.

 

[grumbleguts]

I think one of lake or frawley might pinchh hit in the forward line for a fair chunk of this year, so if things don't work out they can swap places when forward lines don't have the extra tall. Be interesting to see if this game is a test run for that. Gibbo on clarke, lake on hawkins and frawley CHF for ten minutes.

 

[wcadams88]

Wonder if they'll risk Stevie Jay this early in the season with his foot n all....He'll likely need an injection if he plays & so we'll need a heavy tag on him for the first half, when he usually does most of his damage against us....Thereafter I'm thinking he won't be much of a threat once the adrenaline wears off.

Johnson played the Carlton NAB with no ill effects, finished the game strong and pulled up great so he will play uninhibited.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I'm hopeful rather than expectant of a win, but funnier things have happened.

Best of luck.

You mean like the Cats winning all 6 of the last 6 Easter Affairs?....There's nufin funny bout that!

As for Clark, Frawley is an excellent match-up on him for mine....If Frawley was such a defensive liability, then I doubt you blokes would have been chasing him with such earnest as you did.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Johnson played the Carlton NAB with no ill effects, finished the game strong and pulled up great so he will play uninhibited.

So one game thus far without any ill-effects....I'm not entirely convinced he is over it, but time will tell soon enuf....You'll likely nurse him thru the season I'd of thought, if you want to see any chance of High-octane September action from him.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

You mean like the Cats winning all 6 of the last 6 Easter Affairs?....There's nufin funny bout that!

As for Clark, Frawley is an excellent match-up on him for mine....If Frawley was such a defensive liability, then I doubt you blokes would have been chasing him with such earnest as you did.

I didn't intend to imply that Frawley was a defensive liability so to speak, I was merely questioning his impact on your game style and the way you like to move the ball... Hawthorn kicking impact is a big strength. One on one he's fairly adept, but at ground level I'm not as confident he'll compliment your back line.

As for the last 6 Easter Monday battles, well that's history. Both teams are completely different and one is coming off back to back premierships and is currently the best team in the league. It'd be an upset if we one... no two ways about it.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

So one game thus far without any ill-effects....I'm not entirely convinced he is over it, but time will tell soon enuf....You'll likely nurse him thru the season I'd of thought, if you want to see any chance of High-octane September action from him.

Johnson's body is shot and he'll be nursed through the season. A mate of mine who is now a close friend of SJ since their trip to Kokoda together, told me that Johnson informed him that he'll be retiring at the end of the season.

 

[Off The Couch]

I for one have concerns about geelongs forward line - Clarke and Hawkins are two very solid contenders and are going to be hard to contain and I think our defence is going to have its work cut out for them. It is going to be all about the midfield and which forward line has the best conversion rate. I for one don't think its a gimme - every game against the cats is a nail biter and I would shocked to be here if this one is any different.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I didn't intend to imply that Frawley was a defensive liability so to speak, I was merely questioning his impact on your game style and the way you like to move the ball... Hawthorn kicking impact is a big strength. One on one he's fairly adept, but at ground level I'm not as confident he'll compliment your back line.

As for the last 6 Easter Monday battles, well that's history. Both teams are completely different and one is coming off back to back premierships and is currently the best team in the league. It'd be an upset if we one... no two ways about it.

I'm sure that Frawley will be instructed to hand-ball at all costs....Yeah, his first game with us was atrocious truth be told, but he's improved steadily thereafter....He'll take time to adjust to our game-style.

As for an upset result , then I also doubt that logic given our past encounters....First round of the H/A is also notoriously fickle so far as garnering any form-line over the season proper....It's a 50/50 game so far as it stands at the moment for mine....All of Selwood, Bartel & Hawkins seem to save their best for when you blokes play us & I doubt that will change any time soon.

 

[Gene Simmons]

Every time Geelong had beaten us.. one of their key forwards (either Tomohawk or JPod) would kick 4-5 goals... against an undermanned defense.

Interestingly, Brian Lake has played against Cats 5 times as a Hawk and I think we have won 4. Not a coincidence.

Now throw Frawley into the mix, Gibbo 3rd up.. Good luck to em!

 

[Procrastinator35]

Johnson's body is shot and he'll be nursed through the season. A mate of mine who is now a close friend of SJ since their trip to Kokoda together, told me that Johnson informed him that he'll be retiring at the end of the season.

That's pretty much what I thought....I wouldn't fret over it too much though, given the caliber of his replacement in 2016!

 

[VernonSpots]

• "He's a more rounded player than Cyril, so you could say he's a better player," one opposition coach said."

• "He's exciting and I think he is very much at the same level to what Cyril was, or maybe a touch ahead. If you put it in the context around the midfield then he is certainly ahead of Cyril at the moment." - Chris Johnson

• Essendon champion Matthew Lloyd was asked to compare the two stars on Channel 9's Footy Classified. "He (Motlop) has been far more consistent," he said. "Obviously Rioli has been around a lot longer, but in his short career Stevie Motlop finds more footy, kicks more goals and is more consistent."

I'm not saying these necessarily prove anything, just more to show that these discussions exist. I've also heard Garry Lyon criticise Rioli's output and you can find Hawk fans having said the same thing on these boards at various times.

I'm not doubting that was a special moment, but that's different to dominating the entire match to the point of single-handedly influencing the result which is how his performance is often spoken about. It's not like he got any Norm Smith votes or anything.

I don't think Cyril needs to get 'better', he's clearly capable of performing at an elite level as well as a very exciting one, my view is just that he needs to increase his output to realistically live up to his hype, or alternatively, the hype around him needs to die down a little bit to be more in line with reality. He's a great tackler and sometimes just chasing a guy will effect the kick even if he doesn't lay a hand on them, but it's also not like he's averaging 20 tackles a game for that to be enough to make up for his relatively average disposal numbers. His defensive pressure in the last two years relative to other players in the same positions was rated by Champion Data as above-average and average only.

You might take 15 of Rioli's possessions ahead of Motlop's 15, but Motlop averaged 19.5 last season, what if he averages 25 this year and kicks more goals than Rioli as well like he did 2 years ago? At some point the weight of numbers takes its toll. I think Motlop still needs to take the next step but if injury free, I think he'll do that this year. I feel that the reason Hawk fans get so defensive of Rioli is because they know he doesn't quite do enough but they still love him as they well should. This isn't even an attack on Cyril, I really think if he didn't have dodgy hammies he would be top 5 in the league, it's more just a calling out of all the carry on that surrounds him!

No one in the media, players or fan forums ever compare Rioli to anyone (ie he plays like [x] except for a,b and c), which is a fair indicator of his unique nature. The mere fact that ppl (cats supporters) turn around and try to match Motlop with Rioli is a fair indicator where the yardstick is at. Will be a massive win for you blokes if Motlop can actually be in the same convo as Junior at the end of their careers but can't see that being the case at this point in time.

 

[Cynic]

The one area I think we can exploit Hawthorn, and I think it'll come as a surprise to you guys, is up forward. I think question marks surround Frawley and his ability to implement your structure and game style. He's not the quickest defender in terms of decision making and can make mistakes by foot, which doesn't compliment your defensive style... you like to move the ball swiftly and efficiently out of defense. I also feel, much like our back half, that he makes you a little too top heavy. Clark and Hawkins are looking ominous which makes for an intriguing battle ahead. We need both to dominate to be in with a chance.

The question will be Clark. He may have looked ominous in the preseason but there's a big jump between that and AFL let alone against our backline.

If Clark goes quiet it's all over for Geelong personally.

Of course if our players are 5% off or just not willing to work for it we'll lose comfortably.

Either way neither team will lose too much sleep over the result.

 

[Hodginator]

Cats board is pretty positive....Their all up and about talking up their chances....Apparently a bloke called Bews is going to conquer Cyril into submission

Is it just me....Or do Cats fans have some kind of Cyril fetish or sumfin....they just can't stop talking about him....It's almost as if, they wish they were him

End the Cyril obsession guys....Or seek counselling elsewhere!

It's a deep seeded thing going back to the 08 GF. You can't blame them.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

The question will be Clark. He may have looked ominous in the preseason but there's a big jump between that and AFL let alone against our backline.

If Clark goes quiet it's all over for Geelong personally.

Of course if our players are 5% off or just not willing to work for it we'll lose comfortably.

Either way neither team will lose too much sleep over the result.

The bonus with having added Clark is the pressure it takes off Hawkins. If Clark has a quiet one its not necessarily doom and gloom, I mean we managed to perform well previously with only one main target up forward. It merely means that another defender must become more accountable.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Shem Tatupu to debut?

Please change your avatar. You're track record of getting behind players sits at .000/0%.

I, along with others, would appreciate if you had Sam Grimley as your avatar.

 

[Brant]

Please change your avatar. You're track record of getting behind players sits at .000/0%.

I, along with others, would appreciate if you had Sam Grimley as your avatar.

Or Buddy Franklin shaking hands with Joel Selwood as Robbie Gray serves them coffee at Boomer Harvey's house?