Preview Round 1: Hawthorn vs Geelong - Easter Monday MCG (3.20pm)

[threesixpio]

I think you make a fair and reasoned argument, it's just backwards, and not one Hawks fans agree with.
I had a similar discussion with Blues supporters on the main board about Sexton. Nearly every one of them called Sexton a Gun - not a very good player, a gun. For me, Johnno was a gun, Ashman was a gun, Judd is a gun, Sexton was meh - a good player and nothing more.
I went through the stats, showing his relatively few good years, his modest stats, etc., but was called out for trolling.
The argument ran, how many games of his did I watch, and that I underestimated his effect with said modest stats.
You know, there's no real argument with that thinking.
Hawk fans watch every game, are tough markers of their own players (not as you and other cats supporters suggest - blindly indulging), and have a keen sense of who is special, who pulls their weight, whose efforts - even if you were to deem them cameo - had greatest effect on the contest and result.
It's not as if Hawk supporters haven't seen greatness in their playing ranks, truly, we don't throw respect and adulation around THAT easily, so take it from those who should know best......Cyril Rioli is not just special, he's all time special.
Do we want to see it longer, undoubtedly. 25 possessions through the middle with no injuries and in the way he plays, he could maybe be the best ever hawk, he's THAT gifted.
But for many years Gary Ablett Sr was called mercurial, and it wasn't because he turned in a pearler in EVERY game he played, but because when he turned it on there was nothing like it. Certainly that would be a fair estimation of his first 5 or so playing seasons.
Give Cyril a couple more years before you pronounce him as leaving you wanting, and even then, know that your opinion or that of Mathew Lloyd's is simply that, just an opinion of someone from afar, not that of one who judges all his games and all his contests with the demanding eye of one of his own.

Best of luck getting sleep the night before to whoever on your team that mans up Cyril Rioli.
I think the Hawk that's given the Motlop assignment won't have nearly as much playing on his mind in the lead up to the game.

Mitchell was asked a couple of years ago who was better between Buddy and Cyril. He said Cyril straight away. No hesitation

 

[Cynic]

The bonus with having added Clark is the pressure it takes off Hawkins. If Clark has a quiet one its not necessarily doom and gloom, I mean we managed to perform well previously with only one main target up forward. It merely means that another defender must become more accountable.

Disagree. If Clark doesn't demand defensive attention we can dedicate more energy to Hawkins which will be a huge plus for us.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Disagree. If Clark doesn't demand defensive attention we can dedicate more energy to Hawkins which will be a huge plus for us.

Clark will demand defensive attention though, scoring goals or not. Let him free at your own peril... he's too good a player to ignore. If he's having a bad day its because your defender is doing a good job.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Clark will demand defensive attention though, scoring goals or not. Let him free at your own peril... he's too good a player to ignore. If he's having a bad day its because your defender is doing a good job.

You will need Clark and Hawkins to kick 5 each if you're going to be in with a shot of winning. Do you think that's possible against a full strength, full pre seasoned defensive structure of the reigning premiers?

You haven't done anything else other than grabbing Clark in the offseason that will turn around a 6 goal loss...unless you want to count losing Varcoe as a win. I would. However, lets not forget you lost Christensen.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

You will need Clark and Hawkins to kick 5 each if you're going to be in with a shot of winning. Do you think that's possible against a full strength, full pre seasoned defensive structure of the reigning premiers?

You haven't done anything else other than grabbing Clark in the offseason that will turn around a 6 goal loss...unless you want to count losing Varcoe as a win. I would. However, lets not forget you lost Christensen.

It's possible. Whether it happens or not is another story.

As for Varcoe. He's as soft as a pensioners turd... its a win for us as the MC refused to drop him.

 

[Brant]

It's possible. Whether it happens or not is another story.

As for Varcoe. He's as soft as a pensioners turd... its a win for us as the MC refused to drop him.

When did a Clark get so good that he's kicking 5 on Lake or Frawley with Gibbo to assist? For that matter, when did Hawkins?

The danger part for you guys, I think, is what happens when these 2 do anything but mark the ball - They'd apply the same level of defensive pressure as David Hale at the other end.

Where do you hide your 2nd Ruckman, or is that Clark? Would your 2nd Ruckman play off the bench or at FF? Any idea who will play as Ruckmen yet?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

When did a Clark get so good that he's kicking 5 on Lake or Frawley with Gibbo to assist? For that matter, when did Hawkins?

The danger part for you guys, I think, is what happens when these 2 do anything but mark the ball - They'd apply the same level of defensive pressure as David Hale at the other end.

Where do you hide your 2nd Ruckman, or is that Clark? Would your 2nd Ruckman play off the bench or at FF? Any idea who will play as Ruckmen yet?

Ok, my time's done here. You guys are to arrogant for my liking.

 

[Brant]

Ok, my time's done here. You guys are to arrogant for my liking.

Clark kicking 5 was a li'l ambitious, but I guess you just rated it as 'possible', not likely - fair call.

What about Ruckmen? Do you hide them forward or off the bench?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Clark kicking 5 was a li'l ambitious, but I guess you just rated it as 'possible', not likely - fair call.

What about Ruckmen? Do you hide them forward or off the bench?

We don't have any ruckmen, that's the thing. None that I rate anyway. All they need to do is quell Hale's influence, he's the one that usually hurts us.

I'd hope McIntosh get a run before Simpson, the latter offers noting since he's had multiple back operations. At least HMac is capable of competing.

It'll have a big bearing to deciding this game which is why I'm pessimistic. Your class everywhere else will prove the difference if our ruckmen are being outclassed. It's happened in the last 2 big matches, albeit we went in with Walker and Blicavs in the ruck.

 

[Brant]

We don't have any ruckmen, that's the thing. None that I rate anyway. All they need to do is quell Hale's influence, he's the one that usually hurts us.

I'd hope McIntosh get a run before Simpson, the latter offers noting since he's had multiple back operations. At least HMac is capable of competing.

It'll have a big bearing to deciding this game which is why I'm pessimistic. Your class everywhere else will prove the difference if our ruckmen are being outclassed. It's happened in the last 2 big matches, albeit we went in with Walker and Blicavs in the ruck.

See I always rated McIntosh when at Norf - I haven't seen him in 2 years, suggesting he's been injured. I don't see us as having any ruck superiority at all, until our guys go forward, or perhaps McEvoy playing a kick behind play. I think we rate ourselves as a relatively ordinary tap-rucking team.

So is it likely that Simpson & McIntosh play solely as rucks & you play Blicavs & Clark as well? Blicavs on the wing or HBF & Clark at FF maybe?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

See I always rated McIntosh when at Norf - I haven't seen him in 2 years, suggesting he's been injured. I don't see us as having any ruck superiority at all, until our guys go forward, or perhaps McEvoy playing a kick behind play. I think we rate ourselves as a relatively ordinary tap-rucking team.

So is it likely that Simpson & McIntosh play solely as rucks & you play Blicavs & Clark as well? Blicavs on the wing or HBF & Clark at FF maybe?

McIntosh can no longer jump. He gives a contest and is capable around the ground, but he's nowhere near as effective as he was at Nth.

I think one of McIntosh and Simpson will play with Blicavs and Clark in support.

The match up I'm looking forward to is Bews on Breust. I've followed young Jed closely since he was a junior and he has mongrel, pace and the defensive capabilities of putting up a big showing. He's a huge part of our future, and there isn't a better opportunity to show his wares than by matching up with one of the premier small forwards in the comp. He's a fantastic player is Breust... so evasive and classy. Big test for Jed.

 

[Brant]

McIntosh can no longer jump. He gives a contest and is capable around the ground, but he's nowhere near as effective as he was at Nth.

I think one of McIntosh and Simpson will play with Blicavs and Clark in support.

The match up I'm looking forward to is Bews on Breust. I've followed young Jed closely since he was a junior and he has mongrel, pace and the defensive capabilities of putting up a big showing. He's a huge part of our future, and there isn't a better opportunity to show his wares than by matching up with one of the premier small forwards in the comp. He's a fantastic player is Breust... so evasive and classy. Big test for Jed.

Could Bews go forward then & play a role similar to Puoppolo for us - manic defensive pressure that creates more goals than a FP should hope to kick?

 

[grumbleguts]

McIntosh can no longer jump. He gives a contest and is capable around the ground, but he's nowhere near as effective as he was at Nth.

I think one of McIntosh and Simpson will play with Blicavs and Clark in support.

The match up I'm looking forward to is Bews on Breust. I've followed young Jed closely since he was a junior and he has mongrel, pace and the defensive capabilities of putting up a big showing. He's a huge part of our future, and there isn't a better opportunity to show his wares than by matching up with one of the premier small forwards in the comp. He's a fantastic player is Breust... so evasive and classy. Big test for Jed.

I see your Jed and raise you a Jed.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Could Bews go forward then & play a role similar to Puoppolo for us - manic defensive pressure that creates more goals than a FP should hope to kick?

I guess he could, but he's been earmarked for the small defender. Has all the traits... can run off, he's tough and can hold his own in the one on one. A lot of his old man in him and I'm a big rap for this kid. Whether he's ready to take on the better forwards will be soon known. Big task this week, and there's no bigger stage or opponent to learn from.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I see your Jed and raise you a Jed.

He has some talent young Anderson. He'll be in the mix. How's he tracking? Likely to play round 1?

 

[cryptor]

Haven't heard one good reason from Cats fans yet on how they could win this. All I see is the insistence that adding Clark somehow magically makes them a 6 goal better side because one of our key defenders won't be able to double team Hawkins... despite us having added an extra KPD in the offseason. But apparently he's no good... wonder why they bothered chasing his services so hard then...?

Plenty of claims that our latest wins over them "don't count" because they had to play an extra week of finals, or the result meant nothing, or they had injuries. Excuses like those never seemed to fly with them when they were coming from us. That's where they're the truly arrogant ones here.

 

[grumbleguts]

He has some talent young Anderson. He'll be in the mix. How's he tracking? Likely to play round 1?

I think so. I think hawthorn would want as many game hours into him as possible to catch up on lost time.

II wish geelong hawthorn games were later in the season they are always the best games of the year and having first off means a down hill run from there.

 

[Crankyhawk]

We don't have any ruckmen, that's the thing. None that I rate anyway. All they need to do is quell Hale's influence, he's the one that usually hurts us.

I'd hope McIntosh get a run before Simpson, the latter offers noting since he's had multiple back operations. At least HMac is capable of competing.

It'll have a big bearing to deciding this game which is why I'm pessimistic. Your class everywhere else will prove the difference if our ruckmen are being outclassed. It's happened in the last 2 big matches, albeit we went in with Walker and Blicavs in the ruck.

Maybe Geelong play small and try to read our tap outs?

 

[eldorado]

Ok, my time's done here. You guys are to arrogant for my liking.

If you want to discuss things (as you generally have been doing) that's fine.

However, please don't insult our board members if they post things you disagree with.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Haven't heard one good reason from Cats fans yet on how they could win this. All I see is the insistence that adding Clark somehow magically makes them a 6 goal better side because one of our key defenders won't be able to double team Hawkins... despite us having added an extra KPD in the offseason. But apparently he's no good... wonder why they bothered chasing his services so hard then...?

Plenty of claims that our latest wins over them "don't count" because they had to play an extra week of finals, or the result meant nothing, or they had injuries. Excuses like those never seemed to fly with them when they were coming from us. That's where they're the truly arrogant ones here.

I'm the only Geelong supporter in here of late and I've said nothing of the sort. Maybe you're misinterpreting.

1. Clark does make us a better side... instantly. We now have a foil for Hawkins. Whether that's a 6 goal better side is irrelevant. You're not a 10 goal better side than Sydney. Past results mean nothing, although I admit you're certainly the better side, although there's a lot of variables that come into play from game to game, year to year.

2. Please explain your last paragraph because it certainly hasn't come from myself.

There's no doubt you're the benchmark and we're certainly behind the 8 ball.

fwiw i Think both teams will once again feature heavily come September.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

If you want to discuss things (as you generally have been doing) that's fine.

However, please don't insult our board members if they post things you disagree with.

Apology. I misinterpreted his post and its been cleared up.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Maybe Geelong play small and try to read our tap outs?

We've tried that the last two big games we've played, it hasn't worked. That's been out of necessity.

Hale is severely underrated in here. There's not many ruckman with his ability to push forward and present as a danger. He has a habit of saving his best for Geelong. Good player.

I'm hoping he misses out.

 

[Hawkas1988]

We've tried that the last two big games we've played, it hasn't worked. That's been out of necessity.

Hale is severely underrated in here. There's not many ruckman with his ability to push forward and present as a danger. He has a habit of saving his best for Geelong. Good player.

I'm hoping he misses out.

He has been a super player for us. Very underrated, as you said not many ruckman can have an impact both in the ruck and forward.

I think with the rapid development of Ceglar it makes it so hard to pick a definitive 2 ruckman to back in and go with when we have 3 genuinely solid players. Hale's age is the reason why people are probably choosing the other 2. He can't be written off yet.

Hale's record against Geelong is probably only bettered by Mitchell amongst our team. Has been great against you guys and one who could hold his head high many times.

 

[cryptor]

I'm the only Geelong supporter in here of late and I've said nothing of the sort. Maybe you're misinterpreting.

1. Clark does make us a better side... instantly. We now have a foil for Hawkins. Whether that's a 6 goal better side is irrelevant. You're not a 10 goal better side than Sydney. Past results mean nothing, although I admit you're certainly the better side, although there's a lot of variables that come into play from game to game, year to year.

2. Please explain your last paragraph because it certainly hasn't come from myself.

There's no doubt you're the benchmark and we're certainly behind the 8 ball.

fwiw i Think both teams will once again feature heavily come September.

My post wasn't directed at you or necessarily any Cats fans who've posted in this thread or on this board. Plenty of discussion happening in other threads on other boards. Those were some reoccuring themes I'd noticed.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

He has been a super player for us. Very underrated, as you said not many ruckman can have an impact both in the ruck and forward.

I think with the rapid development of Ceglar it makes it so hard to pick a definitive 2 ruckman to back in and go with when we have 3 genuinely solid players. Hale's age is the reason why people are probably choosing the other 2. He can't be written off yet.

Hale's record against Geelong is probably only bettered by Mitchell amongst our team. Has been great against you guys and one who could hold his head high many times.

Please don't mention Mitchell. I'm gobsmacked as to why we let him run free.

I'd be interested in his stats v Geelong. Not that stats are everything but he's certainly been influential every time we've played. From the naked eye he appears to have been everywhere. No signs of slowing down either based on the pre-season. Much like Bartel, the stars are hard to counter.

Good story Mitchell, and I'm happy for him... I can't begin to imagine how he's still playing football after what he's been through.

Champion player.