News Thomas and Keefe - 2 year ban - Trade, De-List, Rookie

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I think they are screwed.

I don't buy the contaminated meat angle. New Zealand has incredibly strict customs laws as well as probably even better meat standard that we have here. There is no way that this was in meat there. It is not China or South America.

I don't buy the Coke angle. Nobody would cut coke with an expensive drug. You would use baking soda or something cheap to increase profit. It makes no sense.

Unfortunately the only real logical angle is that they thought they could cut some corners and take something to help them build muscle mass and lose fat in preseason when training hard.

I would be so happy to be proven wrong but it's not looking great. Let's wait til the B sample is tested and give them an opportunity to make a statement but then we need to make our own and delist if they can't justify
 

Tbone McGraw

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 9, 2012
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Yeah sorry mate, I would seriously disagree.

As an absolute number - alcohol is by far the most detrimental drug in our society. (moreso than nicotine) And the belief that there are people who can use alcohol safely and those that can't is not really accurate - or what decades of studies have shown. (unless you are suggesting that 90% of people who drink don't go over the safe guidelines... which is just not true).
This is something the majority of this country doesn't ever seem to understand. It's like speeding in a car... yes most of us speed at times, it doesn't make it any safer, or any less a cause of death and injury.

However, on a per-case basis, yes amphetamines are worse - and they deserve the attention they are getting.
I am not going to start an argument but i love a drink and go out at least 2 nights a week with mates. We never fight anyone. It is undoubtedly ice combined with roids. I do live in city of sydney so cant compare melbourne.
 
Well that was a long 33 pages. Couple of things I've taken away:

1) I've been wanting to get through a decent cut and I now have a good idea on how to achieve those results
2) We have an impressive supporter base by comparison to some others that will go un named (until tomorrow at least ;))
3) I'm not sure what to make of all this

If the lads have done the wrong thing, they should be punished.. plain and simple. I find it difficult to imagine that this was some sort of coincidence or accident, which is such a shame.
 

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Marley10

Cancelled
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I think some of you may go a bit too hard in slandering them. It would be wise to hear the full story of what happened before jumping on them.
But not really great news. I'm sure it won't impact on field. Hope it is an isolated case and they took it by accident or something.
 
Where is this written?
It's in the AFL Anti Doping Code

CBUUX2vUsAEAT5q.png
 

Tbone McGraw

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I think some of you may go a bit too hard in slandering them. It would be wise to hear the full story of what happened before jumping on them.
But not really great news. I'm sure it won't impact on field. Hope it is an isolated case and they took it by accident or something.
Cheers but really it is not an easily ingested drug. We are realists and that is no attack on you.

In honesty, i hope bombers get off tomorrow....and we belt you on anzac day.:)
 

on the de goey

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Feb 19, 2015
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It's in the AFL Anti Doping Code

CBUUX2vUsAEAT5q.png

All that statement says that the club will be subjected to target testing. Which is totally fine and they should be. Asada have to see if this is more wide spread than just the 2 players.

The comission will only punish the club if this was a club driven supplement. Make no mistake that the club has nothing to do with what the players took.
 

Marley10

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Cheers but really it is not an easily ingested drug. We are realists and that is no attack on you.

In honesty, i hope bombers get off tomorrow....and we belt you on anzac day.:)
I thought the drug could be used for asthma?
Some countries I think also use it for crops?
You never know what could have happened, but we'll have to wait and see.

As for the bombers, well not long to go before we know. and you've done enough belting in the last couple of years… Hopefully our turn ;)
 

Tbone McGraw

Norm Smith Medallist
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I thought the drug could be used for asthma?
Some countries I think also use it for crops?
You never know what could have happened, but we'll have to wait and see.

As for the bombers, well not long to go before we know. and you've done enough belting in the last couple of years… Hopefully our turn ;)
In honesty, our 2 boys possibly f*cked up, maybe.Where as the players in your club were allegedly following orders.

We will see what happens.
 

didaksrightfoot

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Hey guys for what its worth i am actually of the opinion that your 2 players did not intentionally take clenbuterol. It just doesnt make sense to me for them to use it considering the risks associated and the nature of our game. The fact that both of them have returned positive samples only confirms my suspicions that they have eaten or drank something together at the same time that has been contaminated. As bizarre as it sounds it might have been better if more of your players returned positive samples becuase then it would be easier to pinpoint where they may have been contaminated.

I seriously wonder how many innocent athetes have been banned over the years due to ridiculously unlucky circumstances over which they had no control, yet WADA/ASADA always spiel about "its the athletes responsibility what goes into their body". Contamination can and does happen no matter how vigilant the consumer is to do everything right. IMO The Hepatitis cases from frozen berries are a similar example.

Also its odd to me that so many of the athletes who return positive samples for Clenbuterol more than any other drug always seem so adamant to declare that they are innocent.
Katrin Krabbe
Jessica Hardy
Alberto Contador
Michael Rogers

After belgian cyclist Jonathon Breyne returned a positive sample of clenbuterol he attempted suicide

The news was like my world collapsing on me,” he went on. “What have I done to deserve this? Nothing. Absoloutely nothing. I’ve never taken anything. But how can I prove that with what’s happened in China?”

So i really feel for Pies supporters and especially the two players in question. I would rather see 100 athletes dope and get away with it then to see 2 players get every thing that they have worked for in life taken away so unfairly. All that said if they come out in 2 or 3 weeks and admit that they took it intentionally, I would hope they get significant bans for making me look like an optimistic fool.

I appreciate the support you're showing for 2 pies players... but I really don't like the idea of trying to put it down to a food contaminant... it just doesn't really fly well with me - and, rightly, most of the international athletes who tried to use that defence were still banned (from what I've heard today).
If it was being used in meats in either australia or new zealand then that is a serious legal and public health issue (as it is illegal in both) - and you better try and get some proof to claim that.

If they did take it unintentionally, then surely it's more plausible to have been contained in some sort of illicit drug or "supplement", where it's pretty common for products to contain dodgy ingredients.
---

At the end of the day, I reckon they are in for some degree of punishment... the length of which depends on whether ASADA reasonably thinks they used it intentionally as a performance enchancer, or whether they can argue any other reason well enough. (I'm not convinced that they can avoid a very lengthy ban... but we just have to wait and see)
 

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I appreciate the support you're showing for 2 pies players... but I really don't like the idea of trying to put it down to a food contaminant... it just doesn't really fly well with me - and, rightly, most of the international athletes who tried to use that defence were still banned (from what I've heard today).
If it was being used in meats in either australia or new zealand then that is a serious legal and public health issue (as it is illegal in both) - and you better try and get some proof to claim that.

If they did take it unintentionally, then surely it's more plausible to have been contained in some sort of illicit drug or "supplement", where it's pretty common for products to contain dodgy ingredients.
---

At the end of the day, I reckon they are in for some degree of punishment... the length of which depends on whether ASADA reasonably thinks they used it intentionally as a performance enchancer, or whether they can argue any other reason well enough. (I'm not convinced that they can avoid a very lengthy ban... but we just have to wait and see)

Thats the thing though, maybe they are trying to put it down to a food contaminant becuase as implausible as its sounds, thats what actually happened. put yourself in the players shoes and presume that you are innocent and then you get ASADA knocking down your door saying you have doped. Your natural reaction is going to be similar to WTF no, i havent done anything, athetes have returned positive samples after eating contaminated steak so that must be what happened to me.

I agree that unfortunately becuase they have returned positve samples the onus of proof is going to be squarely on their behinds and i cannot see them be able to gather the evidence to clear their names.

Also i have posted elsewhere on the internet.... i cannot remember where,but clenbuterol use is not illegal in livestock in australia or new zealand, however there are restrictions on its use.

This website http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.com.au/our_business/animal_health/products_new_zealand.html lists two products that contain clenbuterol, and one of them planipart is used in pregnant sheep and cattle. As per this label http://www.infopest.com.au/extra/asp/infopest/nra/labels.asp?prodcode=35963&LabelType=L planipart should not be used in animals that are going to be slaughtered for meat within 6 days of use, and any milk from cows within 6 days of use should be discarded.

so the claims that clenbuterol isnt used in australian or nz meat arent quite correct, there is still potential for contamination, all it would take is one cattle farmer to make an innocent mistake ie... sending the wrong animal off to slaughter, and a contamination could occur.
 
My opinion is the AFL may reduce the interchange.....again. So all our players are trying to get lean and fit.

Just a random theory
Maybe but there are safer and more sensible ways for a healthy athlete to lean out, unless of course they thought it might help them to get faster.
 
I think they are screwed.

I don't buy the contaminated meat angle. New Zealand has incredibly strict customs laws as well as probably even better meat standard that we have here. There is no way that this was in meat there. It is not China or South America.

I don't buy the Coke angle. Nobody would cut coke with an expensive drug. You would use baking soda or something cheap to increase profit. It makes no sense.

Unfortunately the only real logical angle is that they thought they could cut some corners and take something to help them build muscle mass and lose fat in preseason when training hard.

I would be so happy to be proven wrong but it's not looking great. Let's wait til the B sample is tested and give them an opportunity to make a statement but then we need to make our own and delist if they can't justify
Agree with this to a tee apart from the build muscle part. Thats not what clen does, in fact you'd achieve the opposite if you cycle it for a couple of months.
And don't let nongs like Ings tell you it's an anabolic cause it isn't. The only way you'd build muscle on clen if you stack it with all sorts of other stuff.
 

swoop42

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Sep 29, 2014
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Food labeling laws are pretty basic in this country and we often don't know where it was originally sourced.

You wouldn't expect to get hep A from a packet of frozen berries.

Horse meat was discovered last year in frozen packaged meat products (overseas I think).

It's not so far fetched to believe it's a possibility that they could have come into contact with a contaminated product that has lead to this positive test.

There is a precedent for it already set.
 

PIEWITHSAUCE

Premiership Player
Sep 29, 2014
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Agree with this to a tee apart from the build muscle part. Thats not what clen does, in fact you'd achieve the opposite if you cycle it for a couple of months.
And don't let nongs like Ings tell you it's an anabolic cause it isn't. The only way you'd build muscle on clen if you stack it with all sorts of other stuff.

You're right I believe but there was a time not too long ago when clenbuterol was thought to be "anti-catabolic" (anabolic).........it's not beyond the realms of possibility that some would still use it with that intent.
 

BlightysCats

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Drugs, especially ICE mixed with steroids, are my biggest worry with society. I love a drink but i fear going out out getting a bit pissed these days. I dont fight and i walk away from any trouble but i worry
You shouldn't fear going out mate. Just don't go to pubs with TABs or clubs, you'll reduce your chance of encountering those nutjobs by at least 90%
 

Tbone McGraw

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You shouldn't fear going out mate. Just don't go to pubs with TABs or clubs, you'll reduce your chance of encountering those nutjobs by at least 90%
Clubs are the most chilled places like rsl's etc. I fear the dance clubs where the blokes have to prove they are better than everyone.
 

THATSGOLD

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I think some of you may go a bit too hard in slandering them. It would be wise to hear the full story of what happened before jumping on them.
But not really great news. I'm sure it won't impact on field. Hope it is an isolated case and they took it by accident or something.
Differenve between us and your mob is we will sack them. No point letting it go on for years and years. You won't be able to be a dog with a bone then.
 

BlightysCats

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Clubs are the most chilled places like rsl's etc. I fear the dance clubs where the blokes have to prove they are better than everyone.
Yeah to clarify I meant dance clubs though even some RSL style clubs down here in Melbs if they have TABs can be frequented by bogan tossers on Methamphetamines of one type or another. Just go to a bar or pub with original live music and you'll be fine!!! I've been going to pubs/bars throughout the North of Melb with bands for ages now and have barely seen anyone get in a fight, and never ever felt scared or intimidated myself.
 

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