Peptides! *The * Dopers: come smell the bull****! ESSENDON FANS NOT WANTED

[Ram-Man]

Did that really happen?

A bit of poetic license used Echols

I can't find the audio -- but it went along the lines of "The information we handed over to the AFL was not illegal and not damaging to the players -- and no Essendon player has ever failed a drug test." (said as if nodding to Collingwood)

Yet he wishes Dank to assist “There is too much knowledge he knows that we don’t know. He could help bring greater clarity to what is a very difficult set of circumstances.”

So he doesn't actually know all of what they were given.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...rdkeeping-was-deplorable-20150331-1mc8hi.html

"There are questions that will never be answered," McLachlan said.

"There are some people who say they know what they had given and I think the players would love to know.

"From what I have read and I need to be careful because it is a confidential document, what we can say what was established through the tribunal is that they weren't comfortably satisfied it was thymosin beta-4. I don't think they have established what it was."

And finally from the sober one on AFL 360 ... http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2015/04/01/players-ones-vindicated-whately/

The peptide that was imported from China, compounded in South Yarra and delivered to Dank remains unidentified. If it was injected into the players they will never know what it was.

 

[arupist]

The 3 members of the Tribunal were all from a legal background and would generally take a more formal, legal view of evidence presented to them. It would not be difficult for them to take the easy way out and view all the evidence as circumstantial, and give the players the benefit of the doubt.
What happens in every legal case is that the evidence for and against is considered, and the judge makes a decision as to how much weight to place on each. As all 3 were lawyers, it would not be hard to come to the decision they made.

I'm not saying they are correct, just that it was an option open to them.
Judge Jones in particular was a very fair judge, pretty tolerant, perhaps a bit lenient.



And, arupist, lawyers don't have big dicks!

Well, I wouldn't know. Thanks for filling me in.

 

[B0SK]

Tell me that guyat the front, 2nd from the left, isn't hitting the drugs.

Bellchambers looks like such a douche in that photo. Then again so does Hurley largely thanks to that ridiculous t-shirt. Looks like he's eyeing off a cab driver or something.

Also what happened to them thinking it was so desperately important to protect their identities, to the point where their teammates were felt compelled to sit out the NAB?

 

[Hawks1994]

Haha if you think footy will be back on the main agenda and this whole thing has ended then sorry but this will just continue on for some time yet

stop crushing my dreams

 

[rdhopkins2]

ASADA's appeal goes to the AFL appeals board. The AFL appeals board.

It's a waste of time, but it's the process that has to take place. The appeals board will be no different. Salaries paid by AFL House who pay the appeals people to not shoot them in the foot.

Which is why I'd rather see WADA jump straight in after ASADA pass on their right to appeal at the AFL Appeals Board and send the big sharks in straight away.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Which is why I'd rather see WADA jump straight in after ASADA pass on their right to appeal at the AFL Appeals Board and send the big sharks in straight away.

So would everyone else. It's not a good look for ASADA though if WADA come over the top of them and WADA know this. As I mentioned in another post, there is a procedure and process that the Anti-Doping sporting bodies take and follow unless it's deemed the national anti-doping sporting code are acting incompetently through either bribes, not doing the appropriate research, etc.

Throughout the process, ASADA have taken their case to various different independent high court, ones not on the AFL payroll, and each time they have enthusiastically endorsed the case and evidence that ASADA has. It's just that no matter how strong their case is, unless it was indisputable that the Essendon players to PEDs, the tribunal were always going to find in favour of their employee. You don't bite the hand that feeds you when they're feeding you more than double what your last feeder fed you.

 

[Agent Smith]

Judge Jones in particular was a very fair judge, pretty tolerant, perhaps a bit lenient.

Think I'd have more faith in Judge Judy...

 

[MightyHawks86]

I'm prepared to give the players the benefit of the doubt, after a night's thought and deliberation (not the whole night, mind you. I do have a job to wake up to). After all, the club is the one ultimately responsible for the whole thing. After said night's deliberation, I came to only one question.

Is it too much to ask that the people who did something wrong cop their whack for it? That they either own up to it, or the people responsible for rendering judgement do so in a fair and equitable way?

Apparently, it is too much to ask. Loopholes, external interests and just plain lies prevent any form of fairness. Not just in this particular case, but in society in general (not all, but some). It's a thought that both sobers and saddens me.

Oh well, end rant. Back to the (actual) footy, and the budding three-peat.

 

[Brishawk]

Ordering PEDs online is sufficient to ban individuals. Why is it not sufficient to ban players at a club running an injection program which admits to injecting a drug of the same name and no viable possible alternative can be identified??

 

[Great 2008]

A bit of poetic license used Echols

I can't find the audio -- but it went along the lines of "The information we handed over to the AFL was not illegal and not damaging to the players -- and no Essendon player has ever failed a drug test." (said as if nodding to Collingwood)

Yet he wishes Dank to assist “There is too much knowledge he knows that we don’t know. He could help bring greater clarity to what is a very difficult set of circumstances.”

So he doesn't actually know all of what they were given.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...rdkeeping-was-deplorable-20150331-1mc8hi.html

"There are questions that will never be answered," McLachlan said.

"There are some people who say they know what they had given and I think the players would love to know.

"From what I have read and I need to be careful because it is a confidential document, what we can say what was established through the tribunal is that they weren't comfortably satisfied it was thymosin beta-4. I don't think they have established what it was."

And finally from the sober one on AFL 360 ... http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2015/04/01/players-ones-vindicated-whately/

The peptide that was imported from China, compounded in South Yarra and delivered to Dank remains unidentified. If it was injected into the players they will never know what it was.

I would love Vlad to be charged with perverting the course of justice. On face value that appears to be what he did.

 

[play2win]

This is the rule that i see as being the biggest issue for the players:

Rule 2: Use or attempted use by an athlete of a prohibited substance or prohibited method.
In addition to testing athletes, ASADA also has the power to investigate the possible use of prohibited substances, drugs, medications or methods in conjunction with the Australian Federal Police and Customs and Border Protection. An athlete does not have to have succeeded in using a prohibited substance or method – if there is sufficient evidence that the athlete has attempted to use a prohibited substance or method, they can be sanctioned. It is the athlete’s responsibility to ensure that no prohibited substance, drug or medication enters his or her body. Not knowing that you have taken something is not an excuse.

If it has been proven that the players were injected with 'something', and ASADA have demonstrated that it could or likely been TB4, then doesn't the onus of proof fall onto the players to demonstrate that it wasn't a prohibited substance? "Not knowing that you have taken something is not an excuse". I don't follow, until you ignore the rationale provide by Echols and savagelunchbox.

 

[Great 2008]

This is the rule that i see as being the biggest issue for the players:

Rule 2: Use or attempted use by an athlete of a prohibited substance or prohibited method.
In addition to testing athletes, ASADA also has the power to investigate the possible use of prohibited substances, drugs, medications or methods in conjunction with the Australian Federal Police and Customs and Border Protection. An athlete does not have to have succeeded in using a prohibited substance or method – if there is sufficient evidence that the athlete has attempted to use a prohibited substance or method, they can be sanctioned. It is the athlete’s responsibility to ensure that no prohibited substance, drug or medication enters his or her body. Not knowing that you have taken something is not an excuse.

If it has been proven that the players were injected with 'something', and ASADA have demonstrated that it could or likely been TB4, then doesn't the onus of proof fall onto the players to demonstrate that it wasn't a prohibited substance? "Not knowing that you have taken something is not an excuse". I don't follow, until you ignore the rationale provide by Echols and savagelunchbox.

I also believe rule 2 would have been what they were hanging their hat on. However during this whole saga there has been little come to light that would have supported a breach of the rule imo. With the records destroyed I think they were always going to be up against it.

 

[MrPremiership]

I hope you all learned something here.

If you are going to be a drug cheat, don't keep records. Just juice up and keep a paper shredder near by.

 

[JustKickIt]

At least we now have two teams to support each week this year. Hawks and whoever is playing *

 

[Rioli magic]

So would everyone else. It's not a good look for ASADA though if WADA come over the top of them and WADA know this. As I mentioned in another post, there is a procedure and process that the Anti-Doping sporting bodies take and follow unless it's deemed the national anti-doping sporting code are acting incompetently through either bribes, not doing the appropriate research, etc.

Throughout the process, ASADA have taken their case to various different independent high court, ones not on the AFL payroll, and each time they have enthusiastically endorsed the case and evidence that ASADA has. It's just that no matter how strong their case is, unless it was indisputable that the Essendon players to PEDs, the tribunal were always going to find in favour of their employee. You don't bite the hand that feeds you when they're feeding you more than double what your last feeder fed you.

Yeah it's all just a big piss take.

WADA won't come in over the top because it will look bad for ASADA, so instead they will let them, their reputation and the whole case be repeatedly hammered. Meanwhile, our county court judges are all corrupt and on the take, but that's all good because the other clubs are happy to bankroll them and see this s**t drag on for another 2 years just for shits and giggles...

 

[heh]

Ordering PEDs online is sufficient to ban individuals. Why is it not sufficient to ban players at a club running an injection program which admits to injecting a drug of the same name and no viable possible alternative can be identified??

That has been one of my major beefs with this since the start.
Didn't the vfl player get two years just for ordering it online? Didn't even take possession of the order?

 

[mightynineteen]

Has Danks verdict been given yet? Will be interesting to see how that is reconciled with that given to the players.

So the dons spend millions to have the evidence ruled inadmissible, Asada spend days providing it, and the court rules – insufficient evidence. What a joke.

And as for the players being responsible for what goes into their bodies, that's obviously not the case.

Always knew the AFL had zero integrity, that now applies to its tribunal.

Anyways the season is now starting, and all I can say is Go Hawks.

 

[philohk]

Sorry, I haven’t read through the whole thread, but let me see if I’ve got this right:

• Charter imported TB4 precursors.
• Alavi compounded TB4 and supplied it to Dank.
• Dank told The Age he used it at Essendon, and backtracked when he learnt it was prohibited.
• Dank told Essendon players he was giving them ‘Thymosin’.
• There’s no record of Thymosin Alpha being used at Essendon.
• Charter never procured Thymosin Alpha for Dank.
• The effects Dank was aiming for are effects of TB4, not Thymosin Alpha.
• The Tribunal said what Dank told the players was ‘of no probative value’.

And that didn’t meet the Tribunal’s standard of comfortable satisfaction. You’d have to think it’s a decent chance of comfortable satisfaction at an independent tribunal. Then there’s Hexarelin etc…

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

philohk thats pretty much it in a nutshell.

Pretty amazing that the AFL media, Bomber supporters and a heap of neutrals are a-ok with "we don't know what the players were injected with".

It's just been an avalanche of "haha, we iz not guilty! Sucked in haterz!", which I think we all saw coming a mile off.

There's little to no querying about what actually happened, all that matters is that players are free to play.

 

[Rhayader]

philohk thats pretty much it in a nutshell.

Pretty amazing that the AFL media, Bomber supporters and a heap of neutrals are a-ok with "we don't know what the players were injected with".

It's just been an avalanche of "haha, we iz not guilty! Sucked in haterz!", which I think we all saw coming a mile off.

There's little to no querying about what actually happened, all that matters is that players are free to play.

Whatever it takes ...

 

[Davo23]

I hope you all learned something here.

If you are going to be a drug cheat, don't keep records. Just juice up and keep a paper shredder near by.

More simple rules:

1. Buy the best shredder you can afford
2. Deny everything

 

[Roddy27]

philohk thats pretty much it in a nutshell.

Pretty amazing that the AFL media, Bomber supporters and a heap of neutrals are a-ok with "we don't know what the players were injected with".

It's just been an avalanche of "haha, we iz not guilty! Sucked in haterz!", which I think we all saw coming a mile off.

There's little to no querying about what actually happened, all that matters is that players are free to play.

Yes, instead we have journos' who would rather ask if McDevitt feels like an April fools day joke. How sad is it that our game is in the hands of an administration who won't deal with things head on when they happen (although i personally feel the veil has been lifted a bit under Gil, and it ain't that pretty what we get to see), and a media who are - on the whole- the worst sycophants of the lot. There are some good ones, obviously, who understand objective reporting- but most are either looking for a sensationalist line or too afraid of losing their jobs if they speak out. It is just sad.

Why didn't that reporter ask McDevitt- what process, if any, could be undertaken to compel Stephen Dank to testify?

After all, he has made a joke of us all, hasn't he? Hasn't he brought the game into disrepute in a way that should have every single one of us demanding the truth?

Could the journo have asked why essendon has not gone after Dank tooth and nail?

Could we not have asked Gillon in his presser how he feels the game is perceived in expanding markets when events like this make our game look juvenile and foolish? You say you want to expand into Europe, new zealand and other places - but they are absolutely laughing at the sport right now. How can you ask anybody to take us seriously if you won't take yourself seriously?

Another set of journos' had a good old laugh at the 'how much has this cost taxpayers line' in the press conference. I was left gobsmacked. Are you so socially conditioned to be complicit in these archaic boys clubs that you would rather laugh at someone, and revel in their misery, instead of doing the right thing and seeking the truth? How much money is it worth to find out WHAT THE damn these young men WERE INJECTED WITH? Hal Hunter is pi$$ing blood, and about to sue the club and the afl- and you don't think it might be in the players best interests to find out what it is - so that IF SOMETHING UNTOWARD WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, I DONT KNOW, THE FUKIN PLAYERS MIGHT HAVE THE PROPER INFORMATION TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT? How much money is someone's health worth? Does not matter how much insurance you have IF YOU DON'T FUKING KNOW WHAT THE damn YOU WERE INJECTED WITH!

But no, let's laugh at an april fools day comment, and smuggly do our jobs, and not question why the coach, complicit in the program- gets to retain his job even though he has neglected his position to the point where he can't even guarantee the health of his players. It doesn't matter what his intentions were- they can be absolutely honourable, but i don't know another job on earth where you wouldn't be moved on for this negligence. It happened on his watch and the consequences of such should have been the clean out of every mofo there- BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T DO ENOUGH. whatever it is they think they did, whatever letters they wrote- you did not put your foot down to stop the practise. So you got to go. It is just the way it is.

But no, puff pieces from Journo's saying how brave people have been. Yes - the players have been brave. not everyone will agree with me, because they need to accept some responsibility, but they have been brave- but they have also been lied to, and completely duped OVER AND OVER AGAIN by the people who get lovely little spin pieces written about them. What I always wanted the playing group to realise, and I think some did, was that club was undeserving of having them on their list. They did not respect the sanctity of the game, or the players who play it.

I am over it.

 

[philohk]

Roddy, I'm less sympathetic to the players than you are, but that was fantastically put.

 

[Rhayader]

Oh well, all's well that ends well hey? I guess Dank is free to start working at Essendon again now? Or at least there should be done kind of settlement for unfair dismissal?

 

[becalm]

If WADA appeal then the AFL will want a decision before the finals otherwise Essendon could be playing in the finals and then the players subsequently found guilty.