Peptides! *The * Dopers: come smell the bull****! ESSENDON FANS NOT WANTED

[Strapping Young Lad]

Roddy, that's just it, no one really cares what the players were given. Especially not the AFL accredited media who make their living off talking about football.

Are we free to play another season of football, without a compromised team and draw, with hundreds of thousands of dollars walking in through the gates? Oh, yes?

Well, all is fine then.


"Nothing to see here people, move along."

 

[Davo23]

I want to see the rest of the Tribunal's findings.
Its 153 pages and they only released the last line of page 153 "the players are not guilty".

The rest should be interesting reading.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I want to see the rest of the Tribunal's findings.
Its 153 pages and they only released the last line of page 153 "the players are not guilty".

The rest should be interesting reading.

I don't believe the words "not guilty" we're ever used though.

 

[JustKickIt]

I don't believe the words "not guilty" we're ever used though.

It should be more like "could not be proven guilty"

 

[B0SK]

Pretty amazing that the AFL media, Bomber supporters and a heap of neutrals are a-ok with "we don't know what the players were injected with".

I wonder if Workcover will see it the same way. They have said they are waiting for the ASADA case to finish up before investigating.

Do people really think this is all over?

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I wonder if Workcover will see it the same way. They have said they are waiting for the ASADA case to finish up before investigating.

Do people really think this is all over?

From experience, workcover is just as corrupt
They don't care about employee welfare, they care about their back pocket
They are there to prevent lawsuits

I was severely bullied over a 2 yr period, with ample proof and witnesses, but my employer contributes a large sum to the government, thus, not ample evidence to warrant an investigation

The boss was "voluntarily" dismissed though

 

[B0SK]

<awesome, long post>

Great post Roddy27.

Its easy to forget not everyone is as cynical about football or cynical in general as I am. So easily I assume everyone has naturally reached the conclusion that outside of Caroline Wilson and a handful of others, football journalism is a worthless extension of the AFL's PR department. Which is why I'm absolutely unsurprised when they fail to ask Gilligan or Hird the hard questions. Honestly I'd be genuinely shocked if they did.

You're right though. It isn't good enough. Just as the fourth estate is essential to keeping the weasels in Canberra in check the football media plays a vital role in keeping the AFL Commission and clubs honest. Unfortunately the slow death of journalism -traditional media journalism as least- has forced them to suckle at the AFL's teat and say only what Big Brother approves of or be cut out of the loop. The tragedy is by failing to ask the hard questions it perpetuates the community's view that these newspapers and news broadcasts have become increasingly irrelevant.

 

[Books]

It should be more like "could not be proven guilty"

Correct. Jake Niall explained the Tribunal process well.

Bottom line - Essendon did buy Thymosin, and it was NOT the legal variety. But because of the lack of record-keeping, it is impossible to prove that all 34 players were injected. Hence the finding was not innocent, but unable to legally prove the guilt.

 

[Gunstall555]

If WADA appeal then the AFL will want a decision before the finals otherwise Essendon could be playing in the finals and then the players subsequently found guilty.

If WADA appeal they won't give a * about what the AFL, Essendon or anyone else wants.

 

[medusala]

Bottom line - Essendon did buy Thymosin, and it was NOT the legal variety. But because of the lack of record-keeping, it is impossible to prove that all 34 players were injected. Hence the finding was not innocent, but unable to legally prove the guilt.

The AFL are looking like utter muppets now. A club has very possibly got away with an extremely serious case of intentional and sustained cheating due to "lack of record keeping".

Their original fine is now looking like a pittance.

This is a massive stain on the game whatever happens now. Its like the NRL was a few years back.

 

[Brant]

I don't believe the words "not guilty" we're ever used though.

Certainly didn't use the word 'Innocent'...

 

[Mitchell Madness]

The AFL are looking like utter muppets now. A club has very possibly got away with an extremely serious case of intentional and sustained cheating due to "lack of record keeping".

Their original fine is now looking like a pittance.

This is a massive stain on the game whatever happens now. Its like the NRL was a few years back.

It's worse than what the nrl was

 

[medusala]

It's worse than what the nrl was

I agree (and the NRL was scandal after scandal for a year or two).

Vlad conveniently walked, Gill is looking compromised and Essendon will claim they have done no wrong and have already paid a fine / been punished.

Meanwhile Hirdy fresh from his French excursion continues on in an exceptionally well paid job.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I keep going back to what "our friend" wrote that I pasted here.

"By the way I have previously said there is no way the an AFL Tribunal will find in favour of ASADA. The AFL is not going to allow their own tribunal to shoot them in the foot, in spite of their protestations of independence. It has always been and always will be a tribunal,under the control of the AFL."

I hope, for entertainment sake at the least, that he's right about WADA and CAS.

 

[badgrill]

Thompson comes out looking squeaky clean. Apparently he tried to "stop the thing" 5 times. But then said there was nothing going on (to stop). Huh??
(Fox 360)

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[zenmasterfu]

It's the lack of a definite link between the vials and the needles and the player's arses, that was the problem, as Jake Niall explains.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...idoping-tribunal-hearing-20150331-1mc2nb.html

And I'm not of the same opinion as most here that the tribunal itself was corrupt. The article explains the frustration the judge has with the witnesses not appearing. ASADA, through this in-house process, are toothless tigers. I'm sure they probably even knew this.

The question then is how far up does this have to go for the tiger to get teeth. I've tried to do some research but can't find whether CAS has subpoena powers. They are going to need to have witnesses under oath.

... if it doesn't then ... remember your needle, but forget your pen, because it's open season.

 

[Brant]

It's over.

Justice & the people lost in favour of legal & corporate process.

We won't revolt - there'll be no revolution. A community gets the justice system it deserves....

Fcuk it. Move on.

I'm just hanging out to lose to Geelong by 4 points on the back of Duckwood, Porkins, Bartel & Clark amassing an AFL Record 32 Free-Kicks For between them...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's the lack of a definite link between the vials and the needles and the player's arses, that was the problem, as Jake Niall explains.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...idoping-tribunal-hearing-20150331-1mc2nb.html

And I'm not of the same opinion as most here that the tribunal itself was corrupt. The article explains the frustration the judge has with the witnesses not appearing. ASADA, through this in-house process, are toothless tigers. I'm sure they probably even knew this.

The question then is how far up does this have to go for the tiger to get teeth. I've tried to do some research but can't find whether CAS has subpoena powers. They are going to need to have witnesses under oath.

... if it doesn't then ... remember your needle, but forget your pen, because it's open season.

I'm of the belief CAS can in conjunction with WADA.

 

[zenmasterfu]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ts-case-against-essendon-20150401-1mcxkn.html

They might get them through this.

In any case, it's clear that this all needs to move into the real law courts.

 

[JoeHawk]

Just saw Sam Newmans rant on TFS against ASADA and Co and supporting Hird and the Bombers. This bloke is just as delusional as the rest of the Club and its supporters.

 

[Flag08]

Sorry, I haven’t read through the whole thread, but let me see if I’ve got this right:

• Charter imported TB4 precursors.
• Alavi compounded TB4 and supplied it to Dank.
• Dank told The Age he used it at Essendon, and backtracked when he learnt it was prohibited.
• Dank told Essendon players he was giving them ‘Thymosin’.
• There’s no record of Thymosin Alpha being used at Essendon.
• Charter never procured Thymosin Alpha for Dank.
• The effects Dank was aiming for are effects of TB4, not Thymosin Alpha.
• The Tribunal said what Dank told the players was ‘of no probative value’.

And that didn’t meet the Tribunal’s standard of comfortable satisfaction. You’d have to think it’s a decent chance of comfortable satisfaction at an independent tribunal. Then there’s Hexarelin etc…

You missed a couple of other key things too such as:
-the schedule of injections precisely matched the optimal schedule for TB4 injections and this is different to other drugs
-dank wasn't working for anyone else at the time so when he got Charter to source TB4 for him who the hell else were going to take them? And if the players didn't take it, then where is the drug they imported now?
-the fact that Charters,Dank and Alavi wouldn't make statements is suspicious in itself as they are shredding their own reputations if they did nothing wrong.

I could go on in support of your original post but I will just say all of my knowledgable legal friends see plenty of reason to appeal the verdict.

 

[Brant]

You missed a couple of other key things too such as:
-the schedule of injections precisely matched the optimal schedule for TB4 injections and this is different to other drugs
-dank wasn't working for anyone else at the time so when he got Charter to source TB4 for him who the hell else were going to take them? And if the players didn't take it, then where is the drug they imported now?
-the fact that Charters,Dank and Alavi wouldn't make statements is suspicious in itself as they are shredding their own reputations if they did nothing wrong.

I could go on in support of your original post but I will just say all of my knowledgable legal friends see plenty of reason to appeal the verdict.

How & why?

Without powers of compulsion acc: ALAVI, CHARTERS & DANK, on what grounds would any appeal be based? What fresh evidence would be introduced or error in ruling would be grounds for appeal?

Even then, what weight would the evidence of either of these parties be afforded given that their cooperation would need to be in response to immunity to further prosecution* or discounted sentences**; &, given their evidence would effectively end their careers & livelihood in the real world?

*It's an AFL Tribunal so they can't offer immunity as the AFL doesn't influence every other court & tribunal in Australia(apparently...)

** Those 3 morons don't work for or in the AFL so they can't get any sentences, let alone discounted sentences. What's in it for these 3, either way?

Without powers of compulsion or the threat of an even bigger stick for not giving evidence, it's over.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I agree (and the NRL was scandal after scandal for a year or two).

Vlad conveniently walked, Gill is looking compromised and Essendon will claim they have done no wrong and have already paid a fine / been punished.

Meanwhile Hirdy fresh from his French excursion continues on in an exceptionally well paid job.

See, the afl has covered it's misgivings for years through the media, this is what the nrl didn't have
The cover ups have been ridiculous, and the sheep (the general public) have bought it, only just now catching on

 

[hawk65]

The whole thing about the players having the right to know what was really injected is a joke though. They know exactly what they were injected with as does the club and Dank (and ASADA). Its all come down to the tip off Vlad game them and thats what saved their sorry drug cheating arses.

 

[Glenferrie Oval]

It's the lack of a definite link between the vials and the needles and the player's arses, that was the problem, as Jake Niall explains.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...idoping-tribunal-hearing-20150331-1mc2nb.html
.

Now I m more confused. The thing I have read and been told since the start was that asada didn't have to prove the case, then dons has to disprove it. That is, if they could proven tb4 was in the room / clinic, ASADA didn't have to prove that it wasn taken, the Dons needed to prove that it wasn't.
They have been found not guilty because of not enough evidence, and they muddied the waters enough and, with no value given to charters and alavis evidence, they have gotten away with systematic doping....... For now.