Oppo Camp Essendon FC verdict: Tuesday 31st of March.

[Bay62]

Just read Hird's apology again and realised it is the Clayton's apology that so many sports stars give

"I am so sorry for anything that's happened, for anything that's been done wrong to our players or been done wrong to our football club"

Never says "I'm sorry for what I did"

Takes no responsibility. Not good enough IMO

 

[NikkiNoo]

NikkiNoo will be far better equipped to answer this, but I thought injections for anything other than medical treatment were a no-no in the AFL?

Yeah the AFL had some strong words about what is acceptable re supplement programs after all this came to light. The only injections are for medical reasons is my understanding too. Flu shots, painkillers etc and all have to be given by the clubs Medical officer or under their inspection by the proper medical personnel ie a nurse.

In the 2013 AFL annual report

• AFL Treatment Rules establish the concept of Controlled Treatments and Prohibited Treatments.
• Controlled Treatments may be used, but must be approved by the club doctor and recorded in a register
  made available to the AFL.
• No substance is to be administered to any player by injection other than by an appropriately qualified medical practitioner and only to the extent it is necessary to treat a legitimate medical condition. No person may possess needles or injectables otherthan the club medical officer.

Interesting that there is an AFL Treatments Advisory Committee -
Dr Peter Harcourt, AFL Medical Director.
Dr Harry Unglik, AFL Medical Director.
Dr Peter Baquie, Medical Officer, Collingwood FC.
Kylie Andrew, Sports Dietitian, Richmond FC.
Dr Andrew Potter, Medical Officer, Adelaide FC.
Dr Tim Barbour, Medical Officer, St Kilda FC.
Robert Aughey, President, AFL Sports Science Association.
Michelle Cort, Dietitian, Geelong FC.
David Buttifant, High Performance Manager, Carlton FC.
Dr Andrew Daff, AFLPA Advisory Board.
Dr Mark Fisher, Medical Officer, Port Adelaide FC.
Dr Anik Shawdon, AFL Talent Pathway Medical Officer.

 

[skoobydoo]

Why is this being reported and discussed as a 'not guilty'/innocent outcome? As HD75 said it is simply a 'lack of evidence' resulting in being unable to prosecute, not a proven innocence. The players may have some claim to being led/deceived by the EFC but in the 50 shades of grey of this, the club and administrators are all rotten to the core.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Anybody ever had a flu shot at work? Did you ever line up at school for a vaccination? Knew exactly what was in the syringe did you?

Melbourne players are all on the paleo diet. What if that's shown up as bad news in five years or a decade's time?

It's very easy to say now, three years after the fact, that you wouldn't have allowed yourself to be injected if you were a player. Very easy to say.

Much, much more difficult in practice.

In my work I have been offered a free flu shot for the last decade - I have not had one. Not a fan of injections. Last ones I had were out of necessity to travel to the 2007 cricket world cup, particularly Guyana & yellow fever.

People who know me know I'm anti-injections unless no choice in the matter. Also, I'm anti-drugs unless absolutely necessary. They are over-used & prescribed in today's society & have a huge inpost on the health budget.

Should be able to minimise injections & drugs if you eat healthy & live healthy with regular exercise - I'm big on this. Problem is most people to not take healthy eating & living seriously... Then look to take short cuts.

 

[AFC3000]

If I go to the doctor to get a shot yeah you might not know for certain whats in it, but I chose one that I trust and my career and hundreds of thousands of dollars aren't on the line either.

My thoughts are an elite athlete can chose to trust the person in charge of the program or giving the injection but also has to take the responsibility if things go wrong. Unless they have done all of the checks and then are genuinely lied to about whats in the injection.

For example, your about to start on a new substance, ok what is it? give me a bit of time to do my own research or check with somebody I trust (maybe managers should set up an independent doctor their players can consult for example), "you said it was ___________, my quick search of the ASADA database says there are two substances with that name, one is banned, one is not, which is it?" ok I will need you to sign off on that for my records, and the clubs.

Now I am not saying every athlete would do that but any less and you have to accept some responsibility for whats given to you.

Maybe if the players were found guilty it would of given some more power to the next group of players who are asked to do something similar to stand up to the club and say hang on this is too important to take any chances, as a group we are going to take our time, and be strong enough to say no if its not 100%.

 

[Slippery Pete]

If you ask, the doctor can give you all the details on exactly what is in the shot, and they have to. They also have to keep detailed records on the dosage etc on what they gave you.

No arguments, but the people claiming they never would have allowed someone to inject them, how many of them have had routine injections in their life and not asked for documentation of what was in them? I'd wager a lot.

ASADA have to understand they are not the moral arbiter here. Nobody gives a s**t if they think what happened at Essendon was "utterly disgraceful." Their job is to find out if Essendon are drug cheats, not to be a moral compass on the Bombers' governance. That's the AFL's job, a job they've already done, and punished Essendon for.

In the 2013 AFL annual report

Again, that's an issue of governance, not necessarily drug cheating.

 

[fabs33]

If you ask, the doctor can give you all the details on exactly what is in the shot, and they have to. They also have to keep detailed records on the dosage etc on what they gave you. To do otherwise, even inject you with something else entirely, then it opens them up to assault charges!

Then Melbourne players would have a right to compensation possibly if they were not informed correctly and advised they had to undertake that diet.

There's also a great difference between your average Jobe and a professional athlete.

 

[headache1]

No arguments, but the people claiming they never would have allowed someone to inject them, how many of them have had routine injections in their life and not asked for documentation of what was in them? I'd wager a lot.

ASADA have to understand they are not the moral arbiter here. Nobody gives a s**t if they think what happened at Essendon was "utterly disgraceful." Their job is to find out if Essendon are drug cheats, not to be a moral compass on the Bombers' governance. That's the AFL's job, a job they've already done, and punished Essendon for.




Again, that's an issue of governance, not necessarily drug cheating.

But how many of them have had those injections when they haven't been prescribed by a doctor and administered by that doctor or a nurse?

As for the rest of your post, completely agree. Whilst people are saying this decision highlights the corruption in Australian sport, it also perhaps highlights the incompetence of yet another Australian government department.

 

[cm_perfect]

ASADA just need one whistleblower

Or advances in testing technologies, this cloud will hang over the EFC's head for a few years yet (if they have taken a banned substance).

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/as...tribunal-verdict/story-fndv8gad-1227286951262

The Herald Sun can reveal the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority still has samples, which were taken from Essendon players in 2012 and which will be stored on ice at a secure Sydney laboratory for seven years.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/as...tribunal-verdict/story-fndv8gad-1227286951262

 

[Crowbots are dead]

I really don't understand the "oh well it's done let's just get back to footy" crowd, as if somehow this Essendon drama is going to delay the season or stop the other 17 teams going about their business.

I hope there's another appeal and it's taken further and I also can't wait for the footy this Sunday. These things can coexist.

I agree. I wanted to jump through the radio and throttle Rowey yesterday. He actually said " its a good day for footy". Rowey is a numbskull

 

[skoobydoo]

Why did the players present their unsmiling selves with no verbal or visual connection to the EFClub? A possible future litigation requirement? Thoughts.......

 

[King Elvis]

I can't believe they got away with it.

******* unbelievable - and a complete and utter disgrace.

 

[PrideOf]

Why did the players present their unsmiling selves with no verbal or visual connection to the EFClub? A possible future litigation requirement? Thoughts.......

Could be, but considering they've said all along that they were innocent in all this, rocking up to their 'We Were Vindicated' party all dressed up in club gear wouldn't help separate them from those who jabbed them.

I hope it does signal litigation.

 

[cmndstab]

So I haven't followed this whole process closely, but I could have sworn I had heard that ASADA had the power to "compel" people to give statements. Yet most people seem to be saying that ASADA couldn't win this case because key witnesses refused to speak. What am I getting wrong?

 

[NTRabbit]

So I haven't followed this whole process closely, but I could have sworn I had heard that ASADA had the power to "compel" people to give statements. Yet most people seem to be saying that ASADA couldn't win this case because key witnesses refused to speak. What am I getting wrong?

They can compel athletes, and I think coaches, but they can't compel anyone else because it's not criminal law and their only threat is competition sanctions.

The Federal Police can compel, but they're about the people illegally importing and distributing the drugs, not the people taking them - and since they already know Dank is the link, they've got no need to compel the players for testimony.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

So I haven't followed this whole process closely, but I could have sworn I had heard that ASADA had the power to "compel" people to give statements. Yet most people seem to be saying that ASADA couldn't win this case because key witnesses refused to speak. What am I getting wrong?

Dank has refused to cooperate through the whole process.

Should be the power to throw him in jail for contempt. He along with Hird have easily been the worst players in this. Management & Doctor failed their responsibilities to protect the players.

 

[mattymac]

Footy show in full drug apologist mode. That Newman montage and monologue was embarrassing. Now praising Gill for ending the drug saga. Vomit.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Footy show in full drug apologist mode. That Newman montage and monologue was embarrassing. Now praising Gill for ending the drug saga. Vomit.

They have not even mentioned the appeal.

 

[FR0GGY]

Brendan Goddard is on fox and 9

 

[mattymac]

They have not even mentioned the appeal.

There won't be any appeal. Their agenda tonight has been to rubbish ASADA as an incompetent circus who have gone out and hurt the reputations of Hird, Dank and the players.

ASADA is a smoking wreck after colliding with the AFL media juggernaut.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Didn't Watson admit taking the drug when he was on On The Couch?

 

[Red mist]

They have not even mentioned the appeal.

I had it on in the background while listening to a podcast as someone posted Tex was on or something. Finished podcast and turned up volume of footy show.
Lasted all of three minutes. Pile of s**t that show. Haven't watched it for years and don't think I will this yr either.
Stupid farce and quite unfunny.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

There won't be any appeal. Their agenda tonight has been to rubbish ASADA as an incompetent circus who have gone out and hurt the reputations of Hird, Dank and the players.

ASADA is a smoking wreck after colliding with the AFL media juggernaut.

Hope they keep poking the angry bear...

 

[Jello_B]

NikkiNoo will be far better equipped to answer this, but I thought injections for anything other than medical treatment were a no-no in the AFL?

Why would they be? Wasn't NikkiNoo certain, absolutely certain, for a guilty verdict. Read their posts.
I have read this board out of interest and to be honest while I am happy PAFC players are free to play (I have been constant that Essendon get the whack not the players, same as Tippett scenario) I don't fully agree with what's gone down either.
But some of the people with their prophetic opinions need to be questioned as much as that Andrew Webster fellar (also sorry NikkiNoo not meaning to target you).
Anyways good luck in round 1.

 

[mattymac]

Hope they keep poking the angry bear...

Wounded cub more like.

ASADA is impotent. They couldn't get anyone to testify = no evidence = swept under the carpet and forgotten. Destroy your drug taking records in Australian sport and you're cruising. Sad but true.