Brisbane 01-03 v Geelong 07-11 v Hawthorn 08-14.

Lions v Cats v Hawks

  • Brisbane 01-03

    Votes: 145 48.5%
  • Geelong 07-11

    Votes: 95 31.8%
  • Hawthorn 08-14

    Votes: 59 19.7%

  • Total voters
    299
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Hawk of ages

Debutant
Jan 8, 2015
68
116
AFL Club
Hawthorn
its not that simplistic, you have to factor a few other things in

1.you also get earlier 2nd,3rd and 4th round picks
2.Early draft picks are always elite young talent and will make other young players drafted at the same time period better
3.You had opportunities presented to that your 2 main rivals Geelong and Sydney did not have.Give Geelong and Sydney these early picks and see how good they can be

Why is this so difficult.....

To go through your 3 points above:

1. So from 1999 to 2001 Geelong finished below hawthorn. You acquired the core of your premiership list during this period, through access to higher draft picks (including 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounds). By your own reckoning, you received an advantage that hawthorn did not get in order to win all of your three premierships. Admittedly you were also gifted Gary Ablett Junior for pick 345ish through father-son, but for your sake we'll conveniently ignore.
2. You've made this up. Total fiction. So Grant Birchall became a star because he was drafted with Xavier Ellis and Beau Dowler? Seriously.....
I would think coaching, development, example from senior leadership and club culture may trump the influence of a similarly aged pimply teenager in a draftee's development.
3. Agreed. This was never the point of your last 12 pages of bitterness though. You said over and over again that hawthorn can't build a premiership team without access to special assistance and high draft picks gifted by the AFL, which in total effectively amounts to one Jarrad Roughead.

Gee whiz...roughy's some player hey?
 
Jan 13, 2006
26,597
19,324
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
Why is this so difficult.....

To go through your 3 points above:

1. So from 1999 to 2001 Geelong finished below hawthorn. You acquired the core of your premiership list during this period, through access to higher draft picks (including 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounds). By your own reckoning, you received an advantage that hawthorn did not get in order to win all of your three premierships. Admittedly you were also gifted Gary Ablett Junior for pick 345ish through father-son, but for your sake we'll conveniently ignore.
2. You've made this up. Total fiction. So Grant Birchall became a star because he was drafted with Xavier Ellis and Beau Dowler? Seriously.....
I would think coaching, development, example from senior leadership and club culture may trump the influence of a similarly aged pimply teenager in a draftee's development.
3. Agreed. This was never the point of your last 12 pages of bitterness though. You said over and over again that hawthorn can't build a premiership team without access to special assistance and high draft picks gifted by the AFL, which in total effectively amounts to one Jarrad Roughead.

Gee whiz...roughy's some player hey?

1.Geelong never had a draft pick below 7 ,Hawthorn had picks 1,2,3,5 and 6.Hawthorn had 2 priority picks Geelong had 0
2.yes players are drafted as a package , elite young talent sets the bar high and pushes others to excel..
3.Hodge and roughead in 3 premierships and franklin in 2 .Take those 3 out and you wouldn't of won any premierships
 
Oct 23, 2014
38,592
44,471
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Melbourne Hawks, NY Rangers
please sir tell us all why hawthorn got 2 early picks ? there are supporters out there saying my club only gets 1 pick why did hawthorn get picks down the bottom not once but twice

I told you to bone up on how the draft works and I meant it. If you don't understand the intricacies of the off-season then maybe this game is not for you.
 
Jan 13, 2006
26,597
19,324
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
I told you to bone up on how the draft works and I meant it. If you don't understand the intricacies of the off-season then maybe this game is not for you.

sorry sir Geelong has never had 1 pick down the bottom of the draft let alone 2 and to add further hawthorn had 2 not once but twice .How did you do this ?
 
Oct 23, 2014
38,592
44,471
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Melbourne Hawks, NY Rangers
sorry sir Geelong has never had 1 pick down the bottom of the draft let alone 2 and to add further hawthorn had 2 not once but twice .How did you do this ?

Do I look like Google to you? Do some obviously overdue research on how the draft works and leave me alone.
 

Hawk of ages

Debutant
Jan 8, 2015
68
116
AFL Club
Hawthorn
1.Geelong never had a draft pick below 7 ,Hawthorn had picks 1,2,3,5 and 6.Hawthorn had 2 priority picks Geelong had 0
2.yes players are drafted as a package , elite young talent sets the bar high and pushes others to excel..
3.Hodge and roughead in 3 premierships and franklin in 2 .Take those 3 out and you wouldn't of won any premierships


This is pointless. You keep changing your own argument to somehow prove your Geelong>Hawthorn theory.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.
 
Sorry Sir you cant win an argument about Hawthorn demonstrating they don't need early draft picks to build a premiership side when hawthorn have had picks 1,2,3,5 and 6

Picks 2 & 3 were priority picks. It was a rule that was introduced by the AFL. Stop acting like Hawthorn are the only team to ever have a priority pick. The majority of our premiership players from 2013-14 are players who we traded for from other clubs and players who were taken very late in the draft/rookie draft.
 
Geelong were the most unnstoppable force through their period of greatness. At their best would have accounted for the best of Lions or Hawk teams in question
 
Except that time when that didn't happen.
Ah a pedant. Geelong were the closest thing to an unstoppable force through their time of greatness. They were the most dominant of the 3 and would have accounted for Brisbane if both were at their best and easily accounted for Hawthorn if both were at their best.
 
Oct 14, 2011
9,668
13,505
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Ah a pedant. Geelong were the closest thing to an unstoppable force through their time of greatness. They were the most dominant of the 3 and would have accounted for Brisbane if both were at their best and easily accounted for Hawthorn if both were at their best.
Easily accounted for Hawthorn? Yet they only beat us by 20 points once, so much for easily accounting for Hawthorn.
 
Easily accounted for Hawthorn? Yet they only beat us by 20 points once, so much for easily accounting for Hawthorn.
Try not being so literal. This is a theoretical question. All great sides but when up and going the best of Geelong was a dominance I have not seen before. They were at their peak as a side in 2007 from around round 5 and most of 2008. Lost 2 games between R5 2007 and R22 2008. They played a brand of footy through that time that I haven't seen equalled before or since and won 3 flags as did the other 2. My accolade isn't a criticism of Hawks or Lions just a testament to how good Geelong were
 
Oct 14, 2011
9,668
13,505
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Try not being so literal. This is a theoretical question. All great sides but when up and going the best of Geelong was a dominance I have not seen before. They were at their peak as a side in 2007 from around round 5 and most of 2008. Lost 2 games between R5 2007 and R22 2008. They played a brand of footy through that time that I haven't seen equalled before or since and won 3 flags as did the other 2. My accolade isn't a criticism of Hawks or Lions just a testament to how good Geelong were
It's less theoretical with Hawthorn and Geelong as these two teams era's actually collided, you don't have to convince me Geelong's peak was better I'm well aware of the fact but to say they would easily account for Hawthorn is simply wrong. Between round 10-22 in 2012 hawthorn won by the following (115 46 65 50 162 72 47 94 (-2) 72 64 7 ). From around 10 2012 to round 4 2014 Hawthorn lost 5 games.
 
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It's less theoretical with Hawthorn and Geelong as these two teams era's actually collided, you don't have to convince me Geelong's peak was better I'm well aware of the fact but to say they would easily account for Hawthorn is simply wrong. Between round 10-22 in 2012 hawthorn won by the following (115 46 65 50 162 72 47 94 (-2) 72 64 7 ). From around 10 2012 to round 4 2014 Hawthorn lost 5 games.
Yeah maybe Hawks need a bigger wrap, are very good. Still I. Haven't seen a period of domination like Geelong. 2nd best team Ihave seen after Hawks of 83-91
 
Jan 13, 2006
26,597
19,324
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
Except that time when that didn't happen.

I think 2 things need to be factored in

1.Thompson is simply not as good a coach as Mathews and Clarkson.
2.Geelong were using a game plane that after 2007 was so much harder to execute than the game plan used by hawthorn or Brisbane. Can you imagine how hawthorn would of gone if they just kept on trying to run and carry the ball up the middle of the ground most of the time ?
 
Jan 13, 2006
26,597
19,324
melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
geelong
Easily accounted for Hawthorn? Yet they only beat us by 20 points once, so much for easily accounting for Hawthorn.
We beat you 11 times in a row, I would call that easily accounted for, domination, clearly better. Whatever you want to call it, nobody could win that many games in a row without being significantly better, that can't happen by chance. Often in football the margin on the day isn't reflective of the talent gap on the field between the two sides
 
Aug 31, 2008
23,265
46,446
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Nuggets
We beat you 11 times in a row, I would call that easily accounted for, domination, clearly better. Whatever you want to call it, nobody could win that many games in a row without being significantly better, that can't happen by chance. Often in football the margin on the day isn't reflective of the talent gap on the field between the two sides

But the two most important games that bookend that run of successive wins was not won by Hawthorn. The two important games last season were both won by Hawthorn too.

Significantly better is a stretch to say the least.
 
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