Certified Legendary Thread Sympathy for *essendon - congratulations on '16 Wooden Spoon (RIP The Scales)

[Flawed Genius]

If Workplace finds Ess guilty, is there any chance of suspending the club from the competition?

Not the fault of the players that the club failed to provide a safe workplace.

Although it is an interesting thought, because had this happened in an office setting, surely the workplace would be closed down until the safety of its employees could be guaranteed.

Given the workplace of the Essendon footballers is effectively any ground on which AFL is played, and safety there is not guaranteed for anybody, despite the fact that injections were not administered there (in this case, the "unsafe" part of the workplace upon which the allegations are based) you would have to let them play.

On this whole thing, if the players were, as has been alleged by all in Sunbury, unaware of what was being given to them, and as Ben McDevitt alleges, thousands of injections took place, I am inclined to express genuine sympathy. I was discussing this with a mate earlier today and to be a first year player, eager to impress and not rock the boat at your new employer, hoping for a 10+ year career, then to be presented with an injection schedule by a mysterious figure who won't tell you (or did, then "lost" the evidence) what is going to be put in your body, would be terrifying.

I feel sorry for the players if that's the case. I don't feel sorry for the (basically) criminal administration who engineered, planned, discussed, scheduled, and put in operation a systematic performance enhancing drug injection regime with a twofold payoff - that of a) improving the players performance on field and b) having the nice little side benefit for one S. Dank of allowing him to "experiment" with both young men at the beginning of their careers and older men who should know better, for his own pharmacological advancement.

It is truly a disgusting thing to think about. If the players have been cleared, which they have, then fair enough. ASADA ****ed up and couldn't make a case for whatever reason - probably simply because Dank failed to adequately keep records of his injections regime - which, accordingly, as others have mentioned, Essendon have been punished for (the loss of draft picks, the expulsion from finals). The players deserve their chance to play football without being under the microscope of an Australia-wide government-run watchdog. This is, after all, their lives.

What cannot and should not be allowed to stand is the near malpractice by Dank, by Hird, by Robinson, by the litany of men who have become casualties of the investigation (Horsburgh, Evans, et al). Those men should be the ones who face judgement on this, not the players. They have quite literally toyed with the lives of men who were placed in their care and violated the rights of each and every single man who signed an agreement to be injected, then wasn't told what he was being injected with.

To listen to Tim Watson on SEN this morning was hard. When it is all said and done, he is a father and loves his son. I have no doubt this has taken a very harsh toll on Jobe as the face and leader of the playing group, and hearing Tim speak about watching his son go through what the players have gone through was extraordinarily difficult. I am inclined to believe the ignorance excuse of the players, but what believing that "excuse", however flimsy, does, is exacerbate the outrageousness of the actions of Hird and Dank. They must - must - be brought to account for what they have done.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I just lost 20 minutes of my life wading into the HTB, but I did learn some interesting stuff:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...-thymosin-beta-4/story-e6frf3e3-1227288292492

• the Tribunal accepted that everyone involved in the ordering, manufacturing and supply of the TB4 believed they were dealing in TB4, but the Tribunal couldn't be comfortably satisfied that it was TB4. I ummm, errr, ok Those crazy Chinese pharmacists! They switched out the TB4 for vitamin C!
• the Tribunal found it particularly difficult to form any views about anything without having Charters, Dank and Alavi giving evidence, other than to say that their credibility was in the toilet. Which means that while the Tribunal couldn't believe Dank when he said (to the media, not to anyone who mattered) that he never injected the players with TB4, it also meant that there was no evidence involved Dank the Injector it could treat as reliable. Ergo, there was no reliable evidence about what went into the players' veins.
• the acquittal is more a decision made in a vacuum of acceptable evidence than an actual conclusion that there was no doping going on.
• the Court of Arbitration for Sport isn't a court, it is an arbitration venue. Why it is called a Court I don't know. Fancy schmancy names. But anyways, being an arbitration venue it attracts the application of the Commerical Arbitration Act, which brings into play the kinds of coercive powers that ASADA lacked. Like the ability to have subpoenas issued. Come on down, Dank and co!

It strikes me as far more likely if there is an appeal, it will be done by WADA rather than ASADA.

Asada won't because it will involve the afl in some form, wada can just go straight to the courts.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Thanks for the love and support...

See you in around 7

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

I just lost 20 minutes of my life wading into the HTB, but I did learn some interesting stuff:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...-thymosin-beta-4/story-e6frf3e3-1227288292492

• the Tribunal accepted that everyone involved in the ordering, manufacturing and supply of the TB4 believed they were dealing in TB4, but the Tribunal couldn't be comfortably satisfied that it was TB4. I ummm, errr, ok Those crazy Chinese pharmacists! They switched out the TB4 for vitamin C!
• the Tribunal found it particularly difficult to form any views about anything without having Charters, Dank and Alavi giving evidence, other than to say that their credibility was in the toilet. Which means that while the Tribunal couldn't believe Dank when he said (to the media, not to anyone who mattered) that he never injected the players with TB4, it also meant that there was no evidence involved Dank the Injector it could treat as reliable. Ergo, there was no reliable evidence about what went into the players' veins.
• the acquittal is more a decision made in a vacuum of acceptable evidence than an actual conclusion that there was no doping going on.
• the Court of Arbitration for Sport isn't a court, it is an arbitration venue. Why it is called a Court I don't know. Fancy schmancy names. But anyways, being an arbitration venue it attracts the application of the Commerical Arbitration Act, which brings into play the kinds of coercive powers that ASADA lacked. Like the ability to have subpoenas issued. Come on down, Dank and co!

It strikes me as far more likely if there is an appeal, it will be done by WADA rather than ASADA.

Off to Sydney we go!!!

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Thanks for the love and support...

See you in around 7

Why are you coming back in 7 minutes?

 

[Nate7]

Why are you coming back in 7 minutes?

He's off to masturbate over Sam Newman on the footy show.

 

[HBF]

Is anyone going to watch the Cola's v The Dr Pep-tides this weekend ?

I can't stand either team, but I really want * to be mauled . If I do watch, the mute will be on right until the first bounce

This.
Don't like Sydney either, but they'll have 16 other clubs in their corner on Saturday.

 

[Horace]

I just lost 20 minutes of my life wading into the HTB, but I did learn some interesting stuff:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...-thymosin-beta-4/story-e6frf3e3-1227288292492

• the Tribunal accepted that everyone involved in the ordering, manufacturing and supply of the TB4 believed they were dealing in TB4, but the Tribunal couldn't be comfortably satisfied that it was TB4. I ummm, errr, ok Those crazy Chinese pharmacists! They switched out the TB4 for vitamin C!
• the Tribunal found it particularly difficult to form any views about anything without having Charters, Dank and Alavi giving evidence, other than to say that their credibility was in the toilet. Which means that while the Tribunal couldn't believe Dank when he said (to the media, not to anyone who mattered) that he never injected the players with TB4, it also meant that there was no evidence involved Dank the Injector it could treat as reliable. Ergo, there was no reliable evidence about what went into the players' veins.
• the acquittal is more a decision made in a vacuum of acceptable evidence than an actual conclusion that there was no doping going on.
• the Court of Arbitration for Sport isn't a court, it is an arbitration venue. Why it is called a Court I don't know. Fancy schmancy names. But anyways, being an arbitration venue it attracts the application of the Commerical Arbitration Act, which brings into play the kinds of coercive powers that ASADA lacked. Like the ability to have subpoenas issued. Come on down, Dank and co!

It strikes me as far more likely if there is an appeal, it will be done by WADA rather than ASADA.

The same is more or less stated in this article in today's Age.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...idoping-tribunal-hearing-20150331-1mc2nb.html

What really s**** me to tears in reading all of this is really everyone apart from the *donialists, know that they were guilty of using banned substances but because certain people who know the truth can't be forced to testify, the *essendon fc can basically give us all the bird.

What a bunch of lying cheating conniving low life *they are. May all *their seasons henceforth be laced with abject failure.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

The same is more or less stated in this article in today's Age.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...idoping-tribunal-hearing-20150331-1mc2nb.html

What really s**** me to tears in reading all of this is really everyone apart from the *donialists, know that they were guilty of using banned substances but because certain people who know the truth can't be forced to testify, the *essendon fc can basically give us all the bird.

What a bunch of lying cheating conniving low life *they are. May all *their seasons henceforth be laced with abject failure.

Feed then to the lions, didn't you create that punishment in Ancient Rome?

 

[Jasemon]

If WADA doesn't appeal I can't see this thread getting to 1000 pages. Would be a tragedy. Similar proportions to Shane Clayton finishing his career on 99 games for North Melbourne and robbing us of father/son in a few years.

 

[Hojuman]

There's these guys.....



Then this guy....




Spot the evil one.

 

[SherbertLemon]

LOL.

 

[IschenkoUBeauty]

I AM SO SORRY

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

LOL.

167 posts, you have an active lifestyle.

 

[SherbertLemon]

167 posts, you have an active lifestyle.

Sure do! In Vietnam after a cruise in halong bay. I'm having a great time reading this thread.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Sure do! In Vietnam after a cruise in halong bay. I'm having a great time reading this thread.

Be sure to suck in all the sympathy, enjoy the cruise.

 

[SherbertLemon]

Be sure to suck in all the sympathy, enjoy the cruise.

Thanks mate, will do. Have a good season.

 

[utility]

Don't be so sure

I think Worksafe Vic will come knocking in the coming months once they poor over the documents.

Section 21 gets you everytime


View attachment 120587

The defence's explanation, as one observer put it, was "we've got no idea what it was". In view of this uncertainty, the players' lawyers contended, the panel could not be comfortably satisfied players were given TB-4.

Uhuh.

 

[niko11]

Not the fault of the players that the club failed to provide a safe workplace.

Although it is an interesting thought, because had this happened in an office setting, surely the workplace would be closed down until the safety of its employees could be guaranteed.

Given the workplace of the Essendon footballers is effectively any ground on which AFL is played, and safety there is not guaranteed for anybody, despite the fact that injections were not administered there (in this case, the "unsafe" part of the workplace upon which the allegations are based) you would have to let them play.

On this whole thing, if the players were, as has been alleged by all in Sunbury, unaware of what was being given to them, and as Ben McDevitt alleges, thousands of injections took place, I am inclined to express genuine sympathy. I was discussing this with a mate earlier today and to be a first year player, eager to impress and not rock the boat at your new employer, hoping for a 10+ year career, then to be presented with an injection schedule by a mysterious figure who won't tell you (or did, then "lost" the evidence) what is going to be put in your body, would be terrifying.

I feel sorry for the players if that's the case. I don't feel sorry for the (basically) criminal administration who engineered, planned, discussed, scheduled, and put in operation a systematic performance enhancing drug injection regime with a twofold payoff - that of a) improving the players performance on field and b) having the nice little side benefit for one S. Dank of allowing him to "experiment" with both young men at the beginning of their careers and older men who should know better, for his own pharmacological advancement.

It is truly a disgusting thing to think about. If the players have been cleared, which they have, then fair enough. ASADA stuffed up and couldn't make a case for whatever reason - probably simply because Dank failed to adequately keep records of his injections regime - which, accordingly, as others have mentioned, Essendon have been punished for (the loss of draft picks, the expulsion from finals). The players deserve their chance to play football without being under the microscope of an Australia-wide government-run watchdog. This is, after all, their lives.

What cannot and should not be allowed to stand is the near malpractice by Dank, by Hird, by Robinson, by the litany of men who have become casualties of the investigation (Horsburgh, Evans, et al). Those men should be the ones who face judgement on this, not the players. They have quite literally toyed with the lives of men who were placed in their care and violated the rights of each and every single man who signed an agreement to be injected, then wasn't told what he was being injected with.

To listen to Tim Watson on SEN this morning was hard. When it is all said and done, he is a father and loves his son. I have no doubt this has taken a very harsh toll on Jobe as the face and leader of the playing group, and hearing Tim speak about watching his son go through what the players have gone through was extraordinarily difficult. I am inclined to believe the ignorance excuse of the players, but what believing that "excuse", however flimsy, does, is exacerbate the outrageousness of the actions of Hird and Dank. They must - must - be brought to account for what they have done.

Post Of The Year...

 

[niko11]

I think the * players coming out in Non Ess Gear sais alot about what they thought........ Sometimes actions speak louder than words..

 

[ozzyoslo]

Good for them.

For the players. Its over.

s**t sticks by the way.........ask Hird's family. Players names have been tarnished whether one feels they knew what they were doing or not. This could carry on after their football careers.

 

[The Other Dean]

As an opposition supporter, absolutely agree.

But as a parent and fan of sport, I am genuinely angry and upset that this decision rewards choices made by players, coaches, doctor and other employees at Essendon to not do what the code requires, but instead to sail close to the wind and not take proper precautions and keep and present proper records. It is a blueprint for other teams and individuals in the AFL to take chances, because as long as experts like Dank and Charter can save you from testing positive, and you don't document anything properly, you'll probably get away with it. I know the * have paid a price, but it's not nearly enough for what they have done and failed to do when even now the contents of injections are a mystery. This is more important than getting on with the footy, more important than watching dad's army* struggle, and I really hope WADA takes it to CAS and away from the AFL and Melbourne to properly test the mountain of evidence.

While I'm maybe a little more cynical, and therefore my expectations run a little lower, I'm with you on all that, Hearts. I'm as troubled by the verdict as anyone, and apologies if my post came across as sounding a little flippant. I did say that I understood the angst, and you may have noted that I made no mention of "moving on" or anything like that. On the contrary, I'm praying for an appeal, and I'm more than happy for this sucker to drag out for another couple of years - 'whatever it takes' - if it means getting a clearer picture as to what went on. Benny definitely sounded like a man with his underwear in a bunch today, so there may be some hope on that front.

But me disturbing my Zen-like state to get all pissy about a ruling that is completely out of my control, is going to achieve exactly nothing. Expect maybe provide a few lulz for an *essendon lurker or two. So instead, I was just trying to give a dignified eye-roll and hone in on the positives we can take away from this farcical finding. Stiff upper lip and all that.

For my part, I'll be continuing to refer to them as drug cheats for the foreseeable future.

 

[The Other Dean]

Well to be fair, he does have 5 ANZAC day medals, so...

The most meaningless award in a 'sport' now full of meaningless awards

Agreed. Totally pales into insignificance next to, say, his bravery medal for fighting in the trenches in Gallipoli, or his America's Cup victory in '83.

 

[Hojuman]

Your boss comes work. Says we got this new guy starting today. He's going to give you some injection & pills to make you work faster. Boss says it's expermental & new. Not really trialled before properly. Here, sign this waiver absolving me & the company of any legal responsibility if things go pear-shaped or you grow an extra head.

Shame Fletcher, Watson and complicit others.
You are as dumb as dog-****.
Deserve all you get and your football careers * asterixed after you retire.

Think you have got-away-with-it ?

Wait.......

 

[Thewlis Dish]

I think the most laughable part of the lack of records is that anything experimental is exactly why you would keep records. How else would you know whether or not these substances were having a positive/negative effect, how much of an effect etc? There would be no point implementing such a program unless the record keeping was even more thorough and exact than normal.

I expect WADA will appeal, if only because of what H2H posted about the precedent it sets for destroying records. This current verdict stinks of an AFL tribunal protecting its own product.