News Thomas and Keefe - 2 year ban - Trade, De-List, Rookie

[Bard]

We have the technology to create specialized drugs, from the atom up, drugs that have zero harmful side effects.
I don't understand why society is brainwashed to believe this is a bad thing.... A pill that repairs your organs and a pill that replenishes your blood. We are already making pills to cure certain cancers and these are being suppressed, this world is seriously upside down sometimes.
As if clubs and players would want to smash harmful substances into the players. It more harmful if the players are getting the drugs from unknown sources, they are always going to risk it, baseball players, swimmers, boxers you name it, literally any athlete benefits from taking performance enhancers.
Let's take our Christianised society glasses off for 1 minute.

What the F?

Dis some crazy s**t yo.

 

[Ketchup]

Sounds like you're having a bob each way mate.

Any one else know anything about the "end of NZ training camp" theory?

If not it's possible that Lachlan & Josh are trying to implicate their own team mates in a scandal to protect themselves. That's not side by side......

I think DH is trying to say that this event may of happen at Queenstown and the club/players are saying st kilda fast as damage control. If it happen at St kilda fest it's a small sample of people (8 max being reported) if it comes out that it happened at Queenstown, well then the entire list will be looked at and the whole club will.have a PR disaster on its hands. So in fact, saying it is st kilda fest is side by side.

 

[Gone Critical]

This would apply to a footballer in and out of an AFL senior side.

And

 

[Gone Critical]

We have the technology to create specialized drugs, from the atom up, drugs that have zero harmful side effects.
I don't understand why society is brainwashed to believe this is a bad thing.... A pill that repairs your organs and a pill that replenishes your blood. We are already making pills to cure certain cancers and these are being suppressed, this world is seriously upside down sometimes.
As if clubs and players would want to smash harmful substances into the players. It more harmful if the players are getting the drugs from unknown sources, they are always going to risk it, baseball players, swimmers, boxers you name it, literally any athlete benefits from taking performance enhancers.
Let's take our Christianised society glasses off for 1 minute.

Think you have been reading some seriously out there science fiction.

 

[Gone Critical]

I've never had a bad experience with drugs, because I knew what I was doing.
So did the doctors that were doing Arnold Schwarzenegger's cycles and the countless other athletes that have won a gold or a championship, they all knew what they were doing. Drugs among athletes is huge and impossible to stop, because if they get away with it then they are elite physically, any body can be elite physically with drugs, why not let them?
I say let athletes use drugs. We will see freaks of nature far quicker rather than waiting for evolution.
I personally want to see genetically modified humans with wings or super strength and giants play AFL, a variety of freaks.
Since when did society become so uptight.
Buddy has been busted countless times with illicit drugs in his system. Why is it such a non issue? Coz he's Buddy.
Clen isn't even a steroid or anything worth caring about, sure it's potentially deadly, but that's the risk kids are willing to take, so why not let them?
I'm pretty sure in the 70's there weren't any rules, you had players have beers and smoke weed after games, these are the players I want to watch, no restrictions, if you're good enough you're gonna make it and if you're willing to risk your health by taking performance enhancers than go ahead.
Don't forget Cousins, no doubt he was slamming down lines at half-time during his career. Players knew he did it, but they let him, because he was freaking good and kept running all freaking day, he won a brownlow, a self confessed drug user, he still owns a brownlow and won a flag or two.
Let them do it, they get away with it anyway, win brownlows and flags, they are always and forever going to risk it, so let them do it.
Little bit of Clen didn't hurt anybody, just got them lean, so what, all of us eat our tortured drugged cow meat and chickens everyday, we don't care about that, but sportsman and athletes that perform to entertain us?? ohhh no, can't have any advantage except your born physical capabilities, don't restrict em, you are all brain washed just like valentines day buying s**t, this is no big deal, ****in clen, seriously.

Are you trying to get a rise out of everyone or you have a few particular posters in mind?

 

[Pedro]

I want to buy the coke theory I really do but....

A bottle of 100 40mcg pills of clen go for upwards of $200 here, there are 1000000 mcg's in a gram.

Now do the math and tell me it makes sense in a financial way.

Thats my question too. Someone replied with the cost of clenbutrol and its was actually more expensive than cocaine. It doesn't make any sense to me at all that they would cut cocaine with this stuff. Not that I would know I suppose, but financially it seems odd.

If this has happened they might be able to argue inadvertant use and get their ban down to 2 years. Still a crap scenario for them but th way its looking it might be their best result.

 

[76woodenspooners]

So, The Boys took Party Drugs(Cocaine) and did not know what was in it/

No.

Saying "The Boys took party drugs" is like saying "Port won the 2015 Premiership" ... it's plausible, but we don't know yet.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Thats my question too. Someone replied with the cost of clenbutrol and its was actually more expensive than cocaine. It doesn't make any sense to me at all that they would cut cocaine with this stuff. Not that I would know I suppose, but financially it seems odd.

If this has happened they might be able to argue inadvertant use and get their ban down to 2 years. Still a crap scenario for them but th way its looking it might be their best result.

You can buy it cheaper than that - 200 tabs for $80 (20mcg).

http://buyclenbuterolstore.com

And you only need a small dose of it to have an effect. You would never use 1 gram of it. It would cause a likely life threatening cardiac arrhythmia at that dose.

So it is still much cheaper than cocaine (I assume you can't get so many doses of coke at that price of course).

 

[76woodenspooners]

I think you'd find that by your definition only about 10% of players would be 100% committed then.

You're suggesting 90% of players are taking illicit drugs???

That's insane!

I'd doubt 90% are coffee drinkers, or even beer drinkers!

 

[76woodenspooners]

Yes. More people die from cigarettes and alcohol.

I wish police would spend more time chasing real criminals.

You want police to chase bartenders and tobacconists?

 

[76woodenspooners]

So how far do you want to take "side by side"… when they are proven guilty on the 14th of April do their 6 mates that were with them at St Kilda fest also own up to taking the same substance and out themselves because "side by side" or do they say ah bad luck lads you're on your own now?

By "side by side" I was referring to fans who have NFI what happened.

But you do raise a moral dilemma.

I'd expect the other 6 won't be saying too much about their use of substances, but i'm also pretty sure the club already knew by Monday's press conference exactly what had happened and who took what at St Kilda and also during their last night in Queenstown. Just maybe this didn't happen at St Kilda and it happened while "celebrating" the end of the NZ 'training' camp...

If the Queenstown scenario is true it would have required either ...

(A) Trafficking illicit drugs across international borders.

Or

(B) Attempting to procure illicit drugs in a foreign country from a (likely) unknown dealer.

... AFL footballers taking illicit drugs is bad enough, but that would take it to a new level of insanity.

 

[Anzacday]

Pretty clear what the "side by side" option here is, (regardless of the destination).
Both parties, (caught and not) keep their mouth shut.
Just because someone was there doesn't mean they partook.
If they did and they weren't found out, then this is the kick up the arse they need.
If, (when) JT & LK are found guilty they will be booted from the club.
Our players can still be friends with them, but need to be wary of the guilt by association mentality that prevails.
With respect to those that may or may not know more than most, speculation will only make matters worse.
As an example, (on a lighter note) look at all the talk of us wanting Bonts last year - word got out and it was acted upon.

 

[Gone Critical]

nope they are usually very smart, the dumb ones aren't successful in making or selling and get caught. Don't mistake a persons intelligence with their ethical standards. They know what they're selling and they know the market. They don't use the drug they sell, its purely money making and a lot of them are damn good at it. Think about it, they make their own product as cheap as possible, they identify their targets and then sell the drug. Whilst keeping it all hidden from the police/government. Thats not easy, no normal person can do that successfully. They also have a duty to themselves to make sure the drug won't kill the user so that they aren't killing off their own profits.
Of course there may be some dumb ass druggo that tries his hand at dealing and gets caught.

Wow what fantasy island crim show have you been watching. Don't know quite where to start but I did love the bit about their duty to themselves to to keep their clients alive. Obviously very successful with that.

I can walk 100 metres from my front door today to watch some of these Mensa types ply their trade on Victoria St. Dirty, skanky, hollowed out eyes, missing teeth. Yep they look right on top of their game. I understand they are the bottom of the dealing tree but they are part of this wonderfully bright class you paint. I saw one of the dealers ride his pushie the other day to go and punch up one of his "clients" who was washing car windows on Hoodle and Victoria. Didn't realise I was witnessing a genius at work.

I know some kids who went to school with mine in a typical middle class leafy environment who got to see dealing as an easy way to make money. No criminal connections or background. Ended up in jail, out now but F'ed up their whole life and wrecked their families. Next time I see them I will have to remember I am seeing people who can do stuff no normal person would be capable of.

I have had people come to see me at work who were part of the families who get portrayed in out TV as part of the underbelly stuff. If all that is to be believed pretty big players in the pill and drug world. In the main they all seemed dumb as dogs-it. Menacing yes, uncomfortable to deal with yes, super minds no. Yes I am sure their are some smart smart people plying the drug trade but to present them as all this way is fantasy TV stuff.

I would turn around something you said "don't mistake a persons lack of ethical standards for intelligence". Being smart in the criminal world is no doubt an advantage as it is in any industry, it's not a prerequisite for being part of it though. You can thrive being of ordinary intelligence or lower as long as you have the requisite qualities of a being a sociopath, comfortable with violence, no qualms about ripping off friends and acquaintances and an appetite to spend time every now and again in the big houe.

 

[Jasper84]

Yes. More people die from cigarettes and alcohol.

I wish police would spend more time chasing real criminals.

Can you please explain to me what a "real criminal" is? I find this term fascinating.

 

[CFC2010]

Wow what fantasy island crim show have you been watching. Don't know quite where to start but I did love the bit about their duty to themselves to to keep their clients alive. Obviously very successful with that.

I can walk 100 metres from my front door today to watch some of these Mensa types ply their trade on Victoria St. Dirty, skanky, hollowed out eyes, missing teeth. Yep they look right on top of their game. I understand they are the bottom of the dealing tree but they are part of this wonderfully bright class you paint. I saw one of the dealers ride his pushie the other day to go and punch up one of his "clients" who was washing car windows on Hoodle and Victoria. Didn't realise I was witnessing a genius at work.

I know some kids who went to school with mine in a typical middle class leafy environment who got to see dealing as an easy way to make money. No criminal connections or background. Ended up in jail, out now but F'ed up their whole life and wrecked their families. Next time I see them I will have to remember I am seeing people who can do stuff no normal person would be capable of.

I have had people come to see me at work who were part of the families who get portrayed in out TV as part of the underbelly stuff. If all that is to be believed pretty big players in the pill and drug world. In the main they all seemed dumb as dogs-it. Menacing yes, uncomfortable to deal with yes, super minds no. Yes I am sure their are some smart smart people plying the drug trade but to present them as all this way is fantasy TV stuff.

I would turn around something you said "don't mistake a persons lack of ethical standards for intelligence". Being smart in the criminal world is no doubt an advantage as it is in any industry, it's not a prerequisite for being part of it though. You can thrive being of ordinary intelligence or lower as long as you have the requisite qualities of a being a sociopath, comfortable with violence, no qualms about ripping off friends and acquaintances and an appetite to spend time every now and again in the big houe.

Very well said.......

The way some people have described dealers here they seem to be wearing a cape and have an "S" emblazoned on their chest.

AKA Super Dealers

 

[jmac70]

Aren't the players entitled to "side by side" until proven guilty?

If they're guilty, then yeah, tar and feather them. But nobody here knows anything yet.

I wonder if some people are tripping over themselves to be seen to be not like Essendon supporters?

The club has clearly distanced itself from these boys. "Side by side?"

 

[Finnishpie]

You're suggesting 90% of players are taking illicit drugs???

That's insane!

I'd doubt 90% are coffee drinkers, or even beer drinkers!

I'm suggesting 90% do things which are bad for their body. And I count alcohol as a drug, which is also bad for you. So, er, yes.

 

[jmac70]

I want to buy the coke theory I really do but....

A bottle of 100 40mcg pills of clen go for upwards of $200 here, there are 1000000 mcg's in a gram.

Now do the math and tell me it makes sense in a financial way.

Could it be something made for a specific market? Such as body builders who want both products in one. Perhaps Thomas and Keeffe took it without knowing.

 

[jmac70]

Yes. More people die from cigarettes and alcohol.

I wish police would spend more time chasing real criminals.

What has this got to do with the police?

 

[jmac70]

If our boys win the flag this year I'll buy them an 8 ball myself, big difference doing on the eve of a new season.

This is it in a nutshell for me. If so many of our guys were out partying on the eve of the new season, there must be questions asked of the culture that still exists at our club.

 

[Scodog10]

By "side by side" I was referring to fans who have NFI what happened.

But you do raise a moral dilemma.

If the Queenstown scenario is true it would have required either ...

(A) Trafficking illicit drugs across international borders.

Or

(B) Attempting to procure illicit drugs in a foreign country from a (likely) unknown dealer.

... AFL footballers taking illicit drugs is bad enough, but that would take it to a new level of insanity.

This. We aren't talking about uranium here this stuff really isn't that hard to source if you have the cash and desire for it!

These guys are young, have money and think they're invincible under the 3 strikes policy. The AFL created a monster with the weak lettuce leaf approach self reporting to escape strikes was even allowed FFS so unfortunately it's not as insane as we'd hope it seems from the outside.

 

[ppoiter]

Wow what fantasy island crim show have you been watching. Don't know quite where to start but I did love the bit about their duty to themselves to to keep their clients alive. Obviously very successful with that.

I can walk 100 metres from my front door today to watch some of these Mensa types ply their trade on Victoria St. Dirty, skanky, hollowed out eyes, missing teeth. Yep they look right on top of their game. I understand they are the bottom of the dealing tree but they are part of this wonderfully bright class you paint. I saw one of the dealers ride his pushie the other day to go and punch up one of his "clients" who was washing car windows on Hoodle and Victoria. Didn't realise I was witnessing a genius at work.

I know some kids who went to school with mine in a typical middle class leafy environment who got to see dealing as an easy way to make money. No criminal connections or background. Ended up in jail, out now but F'ed up their whole life and wrecked their families. Next time I see them I will have to remember I am seeing people who can do stuff no normal person would be capable of.

I have had people come to see me at work who were part of the families who get portrayed in out TV as part of the underbelly stuff. If all that is to be believed pretty big players in the pill and drug world. In the main they all seemed dumb as dogs-it. Menacing yes, uncomfortable to deal with yes, super minds no. Yes I am sure their are some smart smart people plying the drug trade but to present them as all this way is fantasy TV stuff.

I would turn around something you said "don't mistake a persons lack of ethical standards for intelligence". Being smart in the criminal world is no doubt an advantage as it is in any industry, it's not a prerequisite for being part of it though. You can thrive being of ordinary intelligence or lower as long as you have the requisite qualities of a being a sociopath, comfortable with violence, no qualms about ripping off friends and acquaintances and an appetite to spend time every now and again in the big houe.

Not sure whether he was saying all drug dealers are smart. They might generally be lacking in certain facets of intelligence and decency but I would never underestimate their ability to make the maximum profit out of what they have at their disposal. And from that point of view I'd also find it weird to see cocaine cut with clenbuterol. Not saying I dont think it would happen but it would certainly be an odd move when you can make a lot of money off both on their own

 

[DNine]

Have been thinking of what has been said of this theory on the steak being tainted. Couple of things, it has been said by some so called experts to the theory that one would have to eat a whole cow to have such drugs showing up after being injected into the animal. I would believe that if there were not precedence in the Tour de France guy who ate steak in China, and the Mexican soccer team that all supplied positive results after eating Mexican steak. Did these people eat a whole cow did they

 

[DNine]

Also The Ox said yesterday, if anyone has seen the cows in NZ, they would know that they don't need to cut the fat out of the meat. Firstly, no more than Keeffe and Thomas need to.

Also, there is different grade beef. Top, middle & low grade beef. Obvious to me that top grade would fetch top money and low grade would fetch low amounts on the market.

If a singular farmer was struggling to make ends meet, it is not far fetched to believe that an individual could inject a substance. It would also not be far fetched to believe that if one farmer injected a cow, or some cows in his paddock, the industry boss's would not know about it.

We seen how much the greyhound industry was oblivious to the dealings by individuals within their industry with the live baiting. They don't need to have a rep of the industry living at every farmhouse watching the farmers every move.

I see that people scoff at conspiracy theories, but those that do, I wish that something that seems a little far fetched happens to you one day that society hangs you for it because the actual story seems conspiracy theory like.

Because we all know that people in high places are squeaky clean, and only low class individuals do anything wrong. Give me a break.

 

[jasonwilde]

You want police to chase bartenders?

Yes, those that can't pour a proper beer and serve attractive women before me. Throw them in jail.