How can North possibly contest a flag with no superstar players?

[Jcpdragonx]

This. Sydney's 2012 team proves the OP's theory wrong.

Josh Kennedy disagrees. Number 1 in the AFL for contested possessions and clearances. I was wrong on the Jack argument, got 2013 mixed up with 2012.

 

[Rod Stroker]

This isn't groundbreaking stuff here but teams with no superstar players do not win flags. North have none. I am sure the same goes for the NBA/NFL. Here are the past 10 premiers superstar players off the top of my head (if you don't think some of them should be listed, then check their stats for that year). I am sure I missed a few.

2006: Cox + midfield trio

One could argue Goldstein is playing like a superstar, however ruckmen cannot carry games when the players you supply to can't handle pressure.

So ruckmen cannot carry games but you named Cox.

OK.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Naitanui is considered a superstar by some, Ryder too, I would consider Goldstein on their level as a ruckman at least, so perhaps they do have their own superstar?

Goldstein IMO is the third best ruckman right now, Sandilands/Naitanui better, But Goldstein has been fantastic so far

 

[blitzer]

I'm not sure i agree with the premise of the OP. I think you can win a flag with lots of very good players (which North have) even if you are missing those absolute superstars. You just need the team to work together and share the load.
Plus Goldstein is probably the best in his position right now - that's certainly got to be close to a superstar.

I'm not sure if North in particular will win a flag with their current list (they certainly won't have a long duration to challenge for given their age demographic) but i wouldn't say its impossible. If they can finish top 3 (basically all premierships in recent times have come from top 3) in the home and away season then i would say they have a decent shot.

I think the bigger issues/risk factors for them are: Injuries and some of their aging very good players slipping into the average category.

 

[Liam Boy]

Once Ben Cunnington develops a bit more consistency I think he'll be rated among the competition's best midfielders.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

So ruckmen cannot carry games but you named Cox.

OK.

Playing as a team is the first priority, but having 1-3 superstars who can be relied on is essential, as well as other players with first 3 of the next 4 qualities (e.g. Sewell, O'Keefe). Superstar players need leadership (by example if not a natural leader), composure under pressure, an elite game sense, whilst having an elite ability to the point where you are considered a superstar.

I can't fit it all into the title.

 

[dickballsack]

This isn't groundbreaking stuff here but teams with no superstar players do not win flags. North have none. I am sure the same goes for the NBA/NFL. Here are the past 10 premiers superstar players off the top of my head (if you don't think some of them should be listed, then check their stats for that year). I am sure I missed a few.

2014: Mitchell, Roughy, Lewis, etc
2013: Mitchell, Roughy, etc
2012: JPK, Jack
2011: Bartel, Enright, Scarlett
2010: Swan, Pendlebury
2009: Ablett, Bartel, Scarlett etc
2008: Buddy, Hodge
2007: Ablett, Bartel, etc
2006: Cox + midfield trio
2005: Hall, Goodes

Take Hall out of 05, Swans lose. Judd out of 06, they lose. Hodge out of 08, probably lose. Take 2 of a teams best players and they lose (bar 2007 and maybe 2014)

Playing as a team is the first priority, but having 1-3 superstars who can be relied on is essential, as well as other players with first 3 of the next 4 qualities (e.g. Sewell, O'Keefe). Superstar players need leadership (by example if not a natural leader), composure under pressure, an elite game sense, whilst having an elite ability to the point where you are considered a superstar. Dal Santo is the only one that comes close to these attributes on North's list but no longer has the latter.

One could argue Goldstein is playing like a superstar, however ruckmen cannot carry games when the players you supply to can't handle pressure.

Last finals series, North played Essendon (mid to average team, especially towards end of seasons) and Geelong (old and gone, their leadership and experience got them top 4 more so than their ability). As soon as they played a real contender, Sydney wiped the floor with them on the big stage.

Tonight was a close game, but North lost a game they shouldn't drop if they want to contend. The following players stats flat lined in the last 10 minutes: Boomer, Swallow, Gibson, Higgins, Cunnington, Petrie, Waite. Now look at Robbie Gray's stats in the last 10 minutes. (click the mini graph next to the players name). This is a serious issue and they need guidance, however none of these players have a high enough potential ceiling (except waite... okay i kid).

So... what is the solution? I don't think they have one. They need to recruit Gary Ablett (if fit) if they think they can contest a flag in the very near future, which they clearly think they can judging by how active they are in FA. Otherwise throw everything in the bin and rebuild, but I cannot see them doing that.

Basically I am just reassuring this: North Melbourne Kangaroos in its current state have zero chance at winning a flag. Zero.

Why was tonight a game they shouldn't drop if they want to contend? The Hawks lost to the bombers last week, does the same rule apply? And to reference stats from 10 minutes of footy and call it a 'serious issue' is ludicrous.

 

[Nallad]

Wouldn't he really just be a better version of what they already have in the middle - hard nut contested ball players with iffy disposal?

Would be better served at throwing the same money at Alex Rance. Would fill a need much more IMO.

If Rance leaves he will go to Fremantle, not North lol

 

[chaelsonnen]

Josh Kennedy disagrees. Number 1 in the AFL for contested possessions and clearances. I was wrong on the Jack argument, got 2013 mixed up with 2012.

So they had 1...and he wouldn't of even really been considered in the top echelon of superstars at the time (with the likes of Ablett, Swan, Mitchell, Franklin, Selwood etc.) he would've been borderline. In 2015 he is, but not 2012. He was considered borderline superstar at the time, but not in the discussion of the very best players of the AFL. So yeah, your theory is wrong.

 

[Rod Stroker]

Goldstein IMO is the third best ruckman right now, Sandilands/Naitanui better, But Goldstein has been fantastic so far

NicNat career averages per game:
4.4 kicks
1.94 marks
20 hit outs

But yeah, he's awesome.

Goldy has him covered in all areas.

 

[shoebox]

This. Sydney's 2012 team proves the OP's theory wrong.

Adam Goodes, dual Brownlow medallist says whaaasuuuupdaaawg

 

[Benno_900]

Goldstein IMO is the third best ruckman right now, Sandilands/Naitanui better, But Goldstein has been fantastic so far

LOL @ Naitanui better than Goldstein

 

[shoebox]

So ruckmen cannot carry games but you named Cox.

OK.

Goldstein and cox don't belong in the same paragraph. Novel even.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Also Sydney's 2012 team. I would say lacked stars. Kieran Jack is a good player, not a superstar, certainly not at that time anyway.

Goodes was there for starters, dual Brownlow Medalist he ain't bad

 

[Rod Stroker]

Goldstein and cox don't belong in the same paragraph. Novel even.

Never said Goldy is the equal of Cox.
OP says ruckmen can't be superstars because they can't carry games. Yet he names Cox as a super star.

 

[Shupe]

NicNat career averages per game:
4.4 kicks
1.94 marks
20 hit outs

But yeah, he's awesome.

Goldy has him covered in all areas.

LOL @ Naitanui better than Goldstein

Umad?

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Never said Goldy is the equal of Cox.
OP says ruckmen can't be superstars because they can't carry games. Yet he names Cox as a super star.

Can you read the thread or leave please?

 

[Donakebab]

Never said Goldy is the equal of Cox.
OP says ruckmen can't be superstars because they can't carry games. Yet he names Cox as a super star.

No he didn't, he said they can't carry a team. He also mentioned Judd, Cousins and Kerr.

 

[shoebox]

Never said Goldy is the equal of Cox.
OP says ruckmen can't be superstars because they can't carry games. Yet he names Cox as a super star.

Cox was a superstar. Goldstein is not. Op is correct re North.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

this thread seems disjointed, if Gazza was fully fit flying and they could afford him without squeezing out youth. of course they should nab him.
but gazzas old and injury prone and isn't worth his the money for the every reason the OP brings up. North's lack of "superstars".

what would be the point of hiring Gary when its going to push out other midfielders. you're supposed to Build a team up you recruit to cover weaknesses.
North need a key forward who can lead well and at least one more key defender. last i checked Ablett doesn't play either role.

 

[Rod Stroker]

No he didn't, he said they can't carry a team.

One could argue Goldstein is playing like a superstar, however ruckmen cannot carry games

Fail

 

[Upgrayedd]

Umad?

Was at the game, It sucked.

 

[Donakebab]

Fail

I meant no he didn't as in he never said they can't be superstars, just that they can't carry a team which is pretty spot on. When you need a player to grab a game by the scruff of the neck and drag a team over the line a ruckman is one of the least likely.

 

[shoebox]

Fail

Selective quoting. Stay honest. Name the genuine superstar on norths list right now. And don't embarass yourself and say goldy (who I rate)

 

[ZEV]

Who is a " superstar" at a club is generally determined by the marketing department.... To bad north put all their eggs in the majak basket