Picking over the Carlton carcass

[TJTIGER]

Since when has Kruezer been an efficient fwd? Its because he hasn't proven that at all. Really ruck/follower but hasn't as a fwd.

Agree flea. I'd suggest he's played a few cameos in the forward line but I think calling him a proven forward might be overstating it a bit, but I think the potential is there as with TV.....

 

[Mr Magic]

Since when has Kruezer been an efficient fwd? Its because he hasn't proven that at all. Really ruck/follower but hasn't as a fwd.

He has taken some good marks and has a good lead on him, good speed. He has not set the world on fire, I agree, but that is why at FA you would expect good value.

Like I said can't see any club including CFC throwing 500K at him given body issues and uncertainty over on field effectiveness as you have suggested.

All I am saying is the scope is there if the body gets right. He has better scope and suitability at RFC than TV IMO atm

 

[TJTIGER]

provide an argument or look foolish IMO

Did you provide one MM ?

 

[Mr Magic]

can't read your reply

 

[Mr Magic]

Did you provide one MM ?

see above Yarran has done nothing.

Someone please call me on that?

Kicking the odd goal or showing a bit of speed is bling without the substance.

When has Yarran proven himself?

 

[theflea]

provide an argument or look foolish IMO

Ok, the fact that you cant see that Yarran has elite traits(speed,skill,fwdline retention etc) shows how misguided your op is. Having 2 good kicks and speedsters off half back means teams cant tag just 1 and then our game doesn't have that rebound you need. Not only that he can play wing, and fwdline so can play in multiple positions when required. Your ideas of drafting/trading/FA is complete folly and imo you base it on supercoach and have no feel for players, their feelings or camaraderie within the locker room. You would create a really bad culture of mix/matching and would be detrimental to overall club culture.

Hows that for a argument?

 

[TheProwler]

Carlton will want to much for their players.
They need high draft picks.
We are better off targeting them when they come out of contract as FA.
The only Blues players that I think that would actually improve our side would be Yarren, Gibbs, Henderson.
No way the blues will let Henderson go. Gibbs re-signed last year so we need to target Yarren.

So what would you give up for Yarran out of interest?

 

[TJTIGER]

So what would you give up for Yarran out of interest?

I think a first rounder would be overs....

 

[Hounddd]

I think a first rounder would be overs....

lol, well and truly.....

 

[TJTIGER]

lol, well and truly.....

Late 3rd rounder maybe? Possibly later ? I don't mind Yarren's skill set but there's still risk with him in some respects. Overall though I'd like to think he'd get better at RFC....

 

[Mr Magic]

Ok, the fact that you cant see that Yarran has elite traits(speed,skill,fwdline retention etc) shows how misguided your op is. Having 2 good kicks and speedsters off half back means teams cant tag just 1 and then our game doesn't have that rebound you need. Not only that he can play wing, and fwdline so can play in multiple positions when required. Your ideas of drafting/trading/FA is complete folly and imo you base it on supercoach and have no feel for players, their feelings or camaraderie within the locker room. You would create a really bad culture of mix/matching and would be detrimental to overall club culture.

Hows that for a argument?

Pretty s... for an argument!!!


Try this for size!

You talk about elite traits. We are talking about an AFL footy player, a used car, not a draftee. Someone with exposed form.

So when you talk about the pros of an AFL player you go into the abstract and talk about traits. Wow, seriously how about talking about specific performances and whether the guy can actually play football? It is very worrying when you avoid specific performances on field and go into traits. Reminds me a lot of TV. All the talk is hype but the trouble is the scope again does not wash when you are talking about guys with plenty of years in the system and opportunity to realise such scope but failed regularly!

You talk about good kick and speed. Tell me something. Is he a footballer? I say no. Does not tackle effectively, lacks agility, lacks reading the play. Has not held down one position at all at AFL level.

Yarran IMO has never played proficiently in any position yet at AFL level, whether it be Half back, wing or forward.

You mention culture, another abstract BS term with no support for anything. The fact is Yarran is an unproven footballer and if you got him the locker room would say, okay, the coach wants bling, not wins lets show boat now!!!

 

[Mr Magic]

Late 3rd rounder maybe? Possibly later ? I don't mind Yarren's skill set but there's still risk with him in some respects. Overall though I'd like to think he'd get better at RFC....

A late 3rd rounder. Ha ha, if you can get Yarran for a late 3rd rounder fine.

But the Carlton supporters are talking first round.


I wouldn't waste my and RFC's time and money but if push comes to shove 3rd rounder.

But if Yarran was available for 3rd rounder. I would rather Tuohy for a 4th round or even a 5th round since people IMO are getting so unrealistic!

 

[theflea]

Pretty s... for an argument!!!


Try this for size!

You talk about elite traits. We are talking about an AFL footy, a used car, not a draftee.

So when you talk about the pros of an AFL player you go into the abstract and talk about traits. Wow, seriously how about talking about specific performances and whether the guy can actually play football?

You talk about good kick and speed. Tell me something. Is he a footballer? I say no. Does not tackle effectively, lacks agility, lacks reading the play. Has not held down one position at all at AFL level.

Yarran IMO has never played proficiently in any position yet at AFL level, whether it be Half back, wing or forward.

You mention culture, another abstract BS term with no support for anything. The fact is Yarran is an unproven footballer and if you got him the locker room would say, okay, the coach wants bling, not wins lets show boat now!!!

Lacks agility, or reading the play? Spare me. You call this argument shite, just because you don't understand it. Yarran splits the play, makes players run, creates holes in the field, makes the oppo run in circles, and with a good team would be murder. His retention rate of kicks into fwd 50 is elite.

MM your looking for the absolutes in players and frankly they are very very rare.

 

[TheProwler]

Ok, the fact that you cant see that Yarran has elite traits(speed,skill,fwdline retention etc) shows how misguided your op is. Having 2 good kicks and speedsters off half back means teams cant tag just 1 and then our game doesn't have that rebound you need. Not only that he can play wing, and fwdline so can play in multiple positions when required. Your ideas of drafting/trading/FA is complete folly and imo you base it on supercoach and have no feel for players, their feelings or camaraderie within the locker room. You would create a really bad culture of mix/matching and would be detrimental to overall club culture.

Hows that for a argument?

Elite traits, yeah many players have that but very few deliver. Yarran hasn't yet either and would not come cheap (trade & coin). I just took a look at his stats as I thought I was also misguided but last year (his fifth in the AFL) he managed an average of 16 posssesions and 2 tackles a game playing off half back. Thus far this year he is about the same with 14 & 2 respectively. It's all well and good to have speed, skill etc but if you aren't getting it enough then what good is that?

Now consider someone like Shiel, similar height & weight to Yarran, 22 years old and averaging 24 possessions and 4 tackles a game last year. Would cost about the same as Yarran but you get a more complete player, younger and wanting to come home apparently. I have heard we have strong links to him via Chocco also. I know which of the two I would be willing to give away a draft pick and salary cap space for........

 

[Mr Magic]

Elite traits, yeah many players have that but very few deliver. Yarran hasn't yet either and would not come cheap (trade & coin). I just took a look at his stats as I thought I was also misguided but last year (his fifth in the AFL) he managed an average of 16 posssesions and 2 tackles a game playing off half back. Thus far this year he is about the same with 14 & 2 respectively. It's all well and good to have speed, skill etc but if you aren't getting it enough then what good is that?

Now consider someone like Shiel, similar height & weight to Yarran, 22 years old and averaging 24 possessions and 4 tackles a game last year. Would cost about the same as Yarran but you get a more complete player, younger and wanting to come home apparently. I have heard we have strong links to him via Chocco also. I know which of the two I would be willing to give away a draft pick and salary cap space for........

Right behind you on that one

 

[TJTIGER]

A late 3rd rounder. Ha ha, if you can get Yarran for a late 3rd rounder fine.

But the Carlton supporters are talking first round.


I wouldn't waste my and RFC's time and money but if push comes to shove 3rd rounder.

But if Yarran was available for 3rd rounder. I would rather Tuohy for a 4th round or even a 5th round since people IMO are getting so unrealistic!

"Tell em their dreamin" first rounder......

 

[captain cotch 9]

So what would you give up for Yarran out of interest?

2nd rounder?

 

[theflea]

Elite traits, yeah many players have that but very few deliver. Yarran hasn't yet either and would not come cheap (trade & coin). I just took a look at his stats as I thought I was also misguided but last year (his fifth in the AFL) he managed an average of 16 posssesions and 2 tackles a game playing off half back. Thus far this year he is about the same with 14 & 2 respectively. It's all well and good to have speed, skill etc but if you aren't getting it enough then what good is that?

Now consider someone like Shiel, similar height & weight to Yarran, 22 years old and averaging 24 possessions and 4 tackles a game last year. Would cost about the same as Yarran but you get a more complete player, younger and wanting to come home apparently. I have heard we have strong links to him via Chocco also. I know which of the two I would be willing to give away a draft pick and salary cap space for........

I agree, I never said I would take Yarran over Shiel, and I totally want a good inside mids with speed. All I was saying, is he would be good for us and isn't a dud. This is a carlton carcus thread, not a gws thread!!

 

[Infamy]

It would be worth going after Murphy just as long as he converts Jessie Habermann to the Tiges also

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

When I think Kruezer I think Chris Knights .
Players with luck like theirs rarely if ever come good .
Pass for me.
Yarran could be anything but I reckon we are done with coulds.
The cupboard is frightfully bare at Carlton for mine and not worth picking at .
The only player worth seeking would be Docherty but as he is fast becoming their best player he'd be overs.

 

[TheProwler]

2nd rounder?

But you said they would want high draft picks for him. A second rounder won't get it done.

Not having a go at you pal but there are so many in this thread that seem to want Yarran but aren't prepared (or realistic) to pay the price that will be required to get the deal done. Carlton will want a top 10 pick for him which is a price way to high to pay for what you get.

 

[TheProwler]

I agree, I never said I would take Yarran over Shiel, and I totally want a good inside mids with speed. All I was saying, is he would be good for us and isn't a dud. This is a carlton carcus thread, not a gws thread!!

The cost to get Yarran needs to be put into perspective.

Carlton haven't folded (yet) so they will only be offloading players in order to get early picks. People need to consider this before they declare they would take him.

 

[wegetpumped]

But you said they would want high draft picks for him. A second rounder won't get it done.

Not having a go at you pal but there are so many in this thread that seem to want Yarran but aren't prepared (or realistic) to pay the price that will be required to get the deal done. Carlton will want a top 10 pick for him which is a price way to high to pay for what you get.

They can want all they like there is no way anyone would give top 10 for him 2nd round for sure.

 

[telsor]

Naturally he would be , so would you and I , is he worth the money we'd have to pay to get him I don't think so .
I expect murphy would be on $600-$700k meaning we would have to pay $700k-$850k to get him out of there . No way do I think he is worth that .

That's the big issue with any trading.

Really, almost any best 22 player from any club would be good to have, if only for depth, so the real question is are they worth the slice of the salary cap it'd take to land them?

The only truly good players we'd get for a reasonable price would need to be convinced that coming to us means a good chance of landing success (which is how Hawthorn keeps bringing in talent) and I'm not sure we've got a strong enough reputation yet to convince anyone they'd be the 'final piece of the puzzle'.

List wise, our forward line doesn't work too well, but really I'd be looking for a top forward coach there rather than players (although maybe said coach would tell us we need a player/type to make it it all fit together), backline we're good, apart from the questions about Rance (although Astbury would slot in there well enough...not AS good, but he'll do the job) and apart from that just add more quality in the midfield. Cotchin destroyed Brisbane because they didn't tag him, and the more top players we have, the more we'll have not wearing a tag.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

This is one of the worst threads I think I have ever seen come up so often on this board .
The thought of us lurking around that s**t fight awaiting what falls out , disgusts me .