Why do people really hate Hird?

[tesla1962]

Corcoran was my high school Phys Ed teacher. The man couldn't organise a piss up in a pub.

His comments on my year 9 report read: Your kid is good at runnin and jumpin.

Mum enrolled me in a private school the following year.

Did that enable you to improve your readin and writin?

 

[Chameleon75]

the op raises a legitimate question, and indeed there are some that do hate him, but there is also a flip side to that coin. why are some so concerned when others don't hold him in the same esteem that they do?

 

[Proper Gander]

He's the Toorak mansion-owning, BMW-driving golden child who used to regularly rip teams new assholes as a player. He's a man that most would want to be like. Some deem his greatness as a player and pursuit of perfection as a coach as arrogance, and no doubt he cops hate because of that. Some truthers also want to believe that Hird set out to implement a doping program where his players would be knowingly injected with banned and dangerous drugs, and no matter how ridiculous this notion is, they continue to believe it - therefore, Hird refusing to "take responsibility" for this doping program provides another reason for people to hate him. Hird made mistakes, even the most supportive fan of his could admit this - he let the wrong people assume too much control. He copped a suspension and paid for those mistakes.

Really, the Hird fanaticism goes both ways... sure, if it was anyone else other than Hird as coach he probably wouldn't have the support from the Essendon faithful that Hird does, but conversely, if it was (say) Brendan McCartney who was coach during this saga, he wouldn't have received the hate nor media attention that Hird does.

I get what you are saying. Particularly about "he is the man that most would want to be like".

There is almost certainly a 'tall poppy syndrome' element to Hird bashing. For my part, I loved the guy - I'm not EFC but I'm from Canberra so I was proud of him for the sake of what is generally regarded as a daggy city. And I loved him on the couch - favourite AFL commentator ever. And his football is still heart-in-mouth breathtaking.

I got the shits big time when this story erupted. You feel betrayed by the guy on the pedestal - once he is knocked off you want to jump up and down on the pieces. So I spent some time and energy doing that - just for me. Sorry Bombers, that's the way it happened.

I don't really know where I am with Hird now. But I am someone who works in a hierarchical structure. Certain people are senior - with or without a Bruce Francis matrix, one thing I do know is James Hird has been payed a fair old wad for his role. In my world, I've seen endless examples of senior managers paid a mint to be 'decision makers', but as soon as anything goes pear-shaped, they look around for someone else to sacrifice. They are always untouched, but they will happily sacrifice others to whatever preserves their job, reputation and pay. So when a guy claims that the buck stops with him, then later claims that it doesn't, I get prickly.

I know I'm going back and forth. I just don't know where I sit with Hird. I accept that my instincts may be just projecting a bunch of stuff from my own experience that in reality is nothing like what went on with Hird. And I may have totally wronged him. If so, Lance Uppercut will demand apologies and if needed I will do it. I think for now I will wait for a bit. I hope you don't mind me saying my Hird reservations, because I quite like you. You seem balanced, but also love football, and you are funny.

One thing though - someone a few weeks back from camp EFC posted some Hird Highlights. Duckworth maybe? I'm sorry - it was when you were sharing the same avatar so I may have credited the wrong Bomber. Anyway, it is stunning football. I hope nobody ever crosses that part of J Hird out.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Obviously does deserve a significant portion of blame but the attacks on him have been very personal. Robson, Reid, Corcoran etc have gotten off very lightly in comparison. The reason people despise him is the same reason people dislike guys like chris judd and nick reiwoldt - jealousy.

Really? What in particular did Hird do in the supplement scandal that warrants a significant portion of blame?

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Corcoran was my high school Phys Ed teacher. The man couldn't organise a piss up in a pub.

His comments on my year 9 report read: Your kid is good at runnin and jumpin.

Mum enrolled me in a private school the following year.

Genuinely lol'd at that. If you've still got it you should definitely scan it and post it (with your name blacked out of course).

 

[RegHickeyStand]

So why are we jealous of Hird but not Simon Black, Vossy or Mark Ricciuto? Why are they extremely popular despite having as much or more success than Hird?

It's not jealousy, it's the fact that he ran a drug program and then lied about it.

OK. You're jealous that he ran a drug program and then lied about it. You have always wanted to do that yourself.

 

[justbetter]

middle aged man injects s**t for a fake tan. FLOG

 

[Robroy22]

Hate? no....
Have no respect for because he lied and put his own sense of success and vanity before the welfare of his players? YEP
His mighty football legacy turned to slime because he couldn't OWN UP for his own shortcomings.

Sorry Teflon.....you stink.

 

[Proper Gander]

...and became a pedant telling half truths and probably lies...

Jenny ... Tops post apart from this bit. Are pedants those that tell half truths and lies? Write it out 100 times. I'll check in tomorrow

 

[Moshie The Mook]

Genuinely lol'd at that. If you've still got it you should definitely scan it and post it (with your name blacked out of course).

I will have a quick look see next time I'm in the attic. I remember one day he came into the gym wearing lime green shorts. Poor bugger had sat on a chewing gum, but he was so ill tempered none of us kids said anything.

He said "Righto Moshie; why don't you tell us why ya reckon soccer isn't on the curriculum."

I said "No idea Sir, but I think it has something to do with soccer not being skillful like footy."

He said "Yeah, proper man sport footy. You're not as dumb as you look son. Now stop moving around for a minute and tell us what position I would be in if I was standing over here *points to the wing on the footy oval he scribbled on the board*

I said "Dunno sir, but I'm sure from there you'd be able to hear the bad person over the fence who yells out 'chewie on your arse ya *en NTTAWWT"

Good bloke. Didn't suffer fools. No idea what he was on about at any stage.

 

[beechy12345]

So why are we jealous of Hird but not Simon Black, Vossy or Mark Ricciuto? Why are they extremely popular despite having as much or more success than Hird?

It's not jealousy, it's the fact that he ran a drug program and then lied about it.

I dunno. Why do people boo nick reiwoldt? Why do people hate Luke hodge? Why is Adam Goodes one of the most universally hated players in the competition?

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I'm probably like many others - thought he was an unbelievable footballer - courageous, skilful, great in big matches and so in my top 3 footballers I have seen.

Hate is too strong a word but my dislike for him started to foster during his latters year. Firstly he really was seen in the media as the 'golden boy' which started to grate on me (as a Blues supporter) but then felt he started to really manipulate the media himself. For me it culminated on the night of his last game when he took his kid out for a kick of the footy on the MCG. Of course it made the front page , you know James ' Father of the Year' Hird taking his kid for a kick. James said he didn't realise their would be any cameras on him (... oh please ) and only wanted to do it because it might be the last chance he got to take his kid on the MCG. It was so contrived.

Even Kevin Sheedy saw through the bullshit and said as if Hird turned up anytime to the 'G as if they wouldn't let him in !!

So from then on, I just felt we were always just seeing or hearing from Hird a very manipulated view of him. I guess for me then the bullshit detector just seemed to go off pretty regularly with him.

As others have now said - with this drugs scandal I've felt I've just had more of the same. Personally I have no doubt he was at the heart of it - they'd lost the Elimination final and he said to Dank we need to build up quickly and that Dank said he thought he had a legal loophole where he could mimic HGH using a combination of different chemicals. I think there might also be more to be played out in relation to using the players as test subjects for possible financial gain.

PS: He was also rude to my nephew years ago when he asked for an autograph but I kinda forgive him for that as my nephew is a little prick.

 

[AtomicBlonde]

I don't hate him, "hate" is a very strong word and an even stronger emotion - you truly cannot hate anyone that you do not know personally and have not had dealings with in some capacity.

Hird is an arrogant, selfish, narcissist IMO going by the way he has portrayed himself to the public and darted back and forward on the issue of accountability, although he was no doubt under legal counsel and would have been acting in accordance with such counsel. You don't pay them the big bucks to ignore and disregard their advice, unless of course you are ASADA.

Having said that it is undeniable that the players love him and play for him and a quick check of his record over thus far will tell you that it ain't that bad. I'd have preferred it if he had gone his own way but I have a feeling he will be there for some time and it is my job as a life-long supporter/member to carry on supporting the club/team regardless of who is in the coach's chair.

 

[AtomicBlonde]

btw, in a previous job I dealt with several AFL identities (as well as celebs and other athletes) and by far the rudest and most arrogant of the lot was Bucks. I like him as a coach and he performs well in the media but he was an absolute campaigner to deal with and seemed to be a real prick of a bloke.

Hird was always polite but very guarded and impatient in the few times that I dealt with him personally. Derm was by far the best (of the footballers), very affable and polite and never knocked back a photo or autograph - that I was aware of at least.

 

[tesla1962]

I don't hate him, "hate" is a very strong word and an even stronger emotion - you truly cannot hate anyone that you do not know personally and have not had dealings with in some capacity.

Hird is an arrogant, selfish, narcissist IMO going by the way he has portrayed himself to the public and darted back and forward on the issue of accountability, although he was no doubt under legal counsel and would have been acting in accordance with such counsel. You don't pay them the big bucks to ignore and disregard their advice, unless of course you are ASADA.

Having said that it is undeniable that the players love him and play for him and a quick check of his record over thus far will tell you that it ain't that bad. I'd have preferred it if he had gone his own way but I have a feeling he will be there for some time and it is my job as a life-long supporter/member to carry on supporting the club/team regardless of who is in the coach's chair.

Genuine question here, not trolling.

It's obvious to you that he is a narcissist, arrogant and selfish from what you see from a distance. Why is it that the players, the ex players and Bomber Thompson don't see this? They were with him pretty much every day for three years and how does a selfish narcissistic arrogant guy garner such love and respect. Odd. Furthermore, I have listened to a fair few ex players and sheedy as well, before the saga, and I got none of this. Solomon and ramanaskus talk about his one on one ability to challenge and even teach. Solomon chose to partner him in a pre season and it turned his game around. Something is not making sense here. Having said all that I was pretty unhappy with the scott mclaren incident.

PS Country race might know. He is writing a series of papers that will no doubt become citation classics on the peculiar psychology of all things EFC. They are likely to be published in the journal of irreproducible results. Teehee, just trolling now.

 

[Proper Gander]

I dunno. Why do people boo nick reiwoldt? Why do people hate Luke hodge? Why is Adam Goodes one of the most universally hated players in the competition?

No idea. I think you might have hit on it. Some people attract strong emotions. It's DNA. Or some biology-type thing (early school leaver - missed some detail obviously?)

I used to hate Goddard, now suddenly I stuck up for him in a pub argument - since which time in my head we are now besties. No freaking idea what is going on there

 

[Grey Smith Bar]

I don't get the hate.

I think a lot of people out there are just very angry people and they project those feelings onto the heels/baddies of whichever drama they are emotionally invested in. AFL is amongst the biggest dramas on Australian TV today and the AFL scriptwriters were happy to cast Hird as the arch-villain once an unrelated drugs investigation accidentally led to EFC popping up on the wrong radars.

Many Australian TV drama fans are used to seeing the villain eventually vanquished, a story arc complete. They were built up to believe that would happen again and Hird would be done for. He didn't stick the script given to him, the audience didn't get their closure.

Again, those who invest large amounts of emotion into following AFL are the most affected. It ought to serve as a cautionary tale.

Great synopsis of the foamer phenomenon, add in the keyboard warrior effect that makes angry people angrier, and then of course the modern predilection for outrage. Ivory high horses and all that.

 

[AtomicBlonde]

Genuine question here, not trolling.

It's obvious to you that he is a narcissist, arrogant and selfish from what you see from a distance. Why is it that the players, the ex players and Bomber Thompson don't see this? They were with him pretty much every day for three years and how does a selfish narcissistic arrogant guy garner such love and respect. Odd. Furthermore, I have listened to a fair few ex players and sheedy as well, before the saga, and I got none of this. Solomon and ramanaskus talk about his one on one ability to challenge and even teach. Solomon chose to partner him in a pre season and it turned his game around. Something is not making sense here. Having said all that I was pretty unhappy with the scott mclaren incident.

Fair points but there is an unspoken rule in the AFL that you don't talk ill of your team mates, coaches and even opponents unless you absolutely have to. Let's be honest here - it rarely happens.

Just because one is a narcissist, does not mean he is a bad person - its a character trait and I'd say Hird's vanity goes and genuine lack of humility (in the public at least) would be a fair indication of such a trait. Whether you like him or not he did indeed stand by and watch others (that he counted among his best mates) get smashed to the point of submission and then refused again to accept some of the blame for their fates. It could be argued that he put himself before the club too and these points would lead me to think he was a rather selfish bloke. Arrogance or extreme confidence in as much as I don't get a feeling that he is genuinely remorseful of all that went down and all of the heads that rolled.

I could be way off but like I said, all I can go by is from watching a guy over the last few years and how he has acted and reacted in the public eye.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

I dunno. Why do people boo nick reiwoldt? Why do people hate Luke hodge? Why is Adam Goodes one of the most universally hated players in the competition?

For various unlikable attributes (diving, playing for frees, being self-righteous, etc), not because of their success.

Can you please explain to me why we're apparently extremely jealous of some successful players yet love some other successful players? Why am I jealous of James Hird's accomplishments yet have no ill-feeling towards Gary Ablett jnr? Logic suggests that if I get jealous of success then surely I'd be jealous of Gaz as well. He's got Hirdy covered in just about every way:

2 Brownlows to Hird's 1
5 MVP's to Hird's 0
8 All-Australian's to Hird's 5
5 B&F's each
2 premierships each
Gaz gets paid more and pulls a higher quality of chick, so he's got him covered off field too.

The only thing Hird has over Ablett is a Norm Smith.

So please explain to me why I'm so insanely jealous of James Hird yet show no jealousy towards a far more successful player?



People don't hate James because he's successful. They hate him because he's a *******.

 

[Percel]

No idea. I think you might have hit on it. Some people attract strong emotions. It's DNA. Or some biology-type thing (early school leaver - missed some detail obviously?

I used to hate Goddard, now suddenly I stuck up for him in a pub argument - since which time in my head we are now besties. No freaking idea what is going on there

Im not sure Hird ever had the Hodge, Goodes, Goddard hate.....

I may be wrong but i had always though that most "other" supporters were fans of the golden pubed wang behemoth. Please correct I have Petried this belief.

I think people are gutted by what they perceive is a man who has "got away " with it.

Rightly or wrongly, I cant say.

 

[PieBeast]

I don't hate him, "hate" is a very strong word and an even stronger emotion - you truly cannot hate anyone that you do not know personally and have not had dealings with in some capacity.

Hird is an arrogant, selfish, narcissist IMO going by the way he has portrayed himself to the public and darted back and forward on the issue of accountability, although he was no doubt under legal counsel and would have been acting in accordance with such counsel. You don't pay them the big bucks to ignore and disregard their advice, unless of course you are ASADA.

Having said that it is undeniable that the players love him and play for him and a quick check of his record over thus far will tell you that it ain't that bad. I'd have preferred it if he had gone his own way but I have a feeling he will be there for some time and it is my job as a life-long supporter/member to carry on supporting the club/team regardless of who is in the coach's chair.

btw, in a previous job I dealt with several AFL identities (as well as celebs and other athletes) and by far the rudest and most arrogant of the lot was Bucks. I like him as a coach and he performs well in the media but he was an absolute campaigner to deal with and seemed to be a real prick of a bloke.

Hird was always polite but very guarded and impatient in the few times that I dealt with him personally. Derm was by far the best (of the footballers), very affable and polite and never knocked back a photo or autograph - that I was aware of at least.

my mind is full of ...

 

[AtomicBlonde]

my mind is full of ...

What's your point?

 

[tesla1962]

Fair points but there is an unspoken rule in the AFL that you don't talk ill of your team mates, coaches and even opponents unless you absolutely have to. Let's be honest here - it rarely happens.

Just because one is a narcissist, does not mean he is a bad person - its a character trait and I'd say Hird's vanity goes and genuine lack of humility (in the public at least) would be a fair indication of such a trait. Whether you like him or not he did indeed stand by and watch others (that he counted among his best mates) get smashed to the point of submission and then refused again to accept some of the blame for their fates. It could be argued that he put himself before the club too and these points would lead me to think he was a rather selfish bloke. Arrogance or extreme confidence in as much as I don't get a feeling that he is genuinely remorseful of all that went down and all of the heads that rolled.

I could be way off but like I said, all I can go by is from watching a guy over the last few years and how he has acted and reacted in the public eye.

Hmmmmm, I am not sure who you are referring to in the 'best mates being smashed into submission'. He apologised to the players behind closed doors for his part in the saga as I understand. Are these the mates you talk of or is it David Evans et al.

 

[PieBeast]

What's your point?

You have completely contradicted yourself.

 

[AtomicBlonde]

Hmmmmm, I am not sure who you are referring to in the 'best mates being smashed into submission'. He apologised to the players behind closed doors for his part in the saga as I understand. Are these the mates you talk of or is it David Evans et al.

One of them yes, the two were like brothers from all reports and as once stated by Evans himself.