Opinion Butcher

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Schulzenfest said:
You know I'm usually on your side when it comes to Butch, but if you watched that game the 'vultures circling' is understandable. He was awful. I could've kicked the two goals that he got, one was from a free 10 metres out straight in front and one was a Joe the Goose. Did nothing other than that.
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I have no doubt that he was.

I'd just like people to give him a few weeks before they decide that he's a certainty to be delisted 2 weeks into the season.
 
El_Scorcho said:
.... he's unarguably our best KPF outside of the AFL side right now .....
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Unarguably? For heaven's sake, you just invite attacks on him.
He's failed at AFL level. The only +ve for him is that Hocking/Hinkley are still offering him the KPF role with the Maggies, but he's failing even at SANFL level and Ken's patience can't be infinite. This week will be interesting, he score 1 point in last year's SANFL GF. Will he have any response at all?
 
Powerstufff said:
Unarguably? For heaven's sake, you just invite attacks on him.
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Who's better? Shaw and Howard are injured, Mitch Harvey has 1 goal from 2 games compared to Butcher's 6.

Powerstufff said:
He's failed at AFL level. The only +ve for him is that Hocking/Hinkley are still offering him the KPF role with the Maggies, but he's failing even at SANFL level and Ken's patience can't be infinite.
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Fifth in the SANFL goalkicking. Third in the SANFL goalkicking out of the players who haven't played an extra game. Has double the amount of goals of any other Magpie. I will never understand why supposed Port Adelaide supporters intentionally make blatantly wrong statements talking down Port Adelaide players. It's baffling.

And even if what you were saying was accurate, which it's not, it's Round 2. Butcher still has 18 rounds to impress the coaches. Why would you rule that out as a possibility? I honestly don't understand the mentality. It's like you want our players to fail.
 

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Powerstufff said:
Unarguably? For heaven's sake, you just invite attacks on him.
He's failed at AFL level. The only +ve for him is that Hocking/Hinkley are still offering him the KPF role with the Maggies, but he's failing even at SANFL level and Ken's patience can't be infinite. This week will be interesting, he score 1 point in last year's SANFL GF. Will he have any response at all?
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You're embarrassing yourself.

He's equal 3rd in the SANFL goalkicking despite the bye, averaging 3 goals a game. He was 2nd best on ground a week earlier.

He is clearly and comfortably the best KPF in our SANFL side, it's not even debatable. He is clearly and comfortably the best tall forward on our list outside of the 22 we played on the weekend. It's not even debatable.
 
El_Scorcho said:
You're embarrassing yourself.

He's equal 3rd in the SANFL goalkicking despite the bye, averaging 3 goals a game. He was 2nd best on ground a week earlier.

He is clearly and comfortably the best KPF in our SANFL side, it's not even debatable. He is clearly and comfortably the best tall forward on our list outside of the 22 we played on the weekend. It's not even debatable.
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just out of interest how many magpies games do you watch or do you just look at the stats?
ill be happy when butch can go back and consistantly kick them from outside 30 metres. ill be happy when he lines up for goal 40 out and doesnt miss by 20. ill be happy when he marks 40 out in front he goes back and slots it, not look for a pass. im also happy for him to have time in the maggies to get it right but after watching him the last 4-5 years nothing has changed and there can be zero confidence that things will change in the future.
 
El_Scorcho said:
And he was 2nd best on ground a week ago. Thanks for waiting.
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so what, he was the key forward in a game we had 60 inside 50s to 23, he played well as he has at times in the past but it was nothing special. he kicked 4 all simple shots, straight in front 20-30 out, sprayed a couple longer out but marked and competed well.
 
Well something has changed, because he was our best performed KPF in the preseason and was named 2nd best on ground last week, after not getting in the bests at all last year.
 
Our key forward depth chart basically goes like this

Shultz , butcher ,

Shaw , Harvey ( both young , promising yet to establish themselves)

I'm a big fan of westhoff , but he isn't a key forwards butthole. He has height and mobility , and if you let him run and jump at a pack is one of the best at that game. Play him one on one with a defender and he gets beaten too often.


Ryder is a good 2nd ruck 2nd key forward.


Worst case scenario butcher gives us a stop gap while we develop shaw/Harvey or unearth another prospect.

The idea that if we got rid of butcher that freed up list spot would instantly be filled by a ready made key forward better than butcher is ridiculous.
 
Hong-Kong Phooey said:
didnt he start the same way last year? i know he didnt ahve a big preseason last year, but he was in the round 1 team.
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Yeah basically. He was leading the Ken Farmer medal after 10-12 rounds of SANFL football.

He hadn't been named 2nd best on ground in any of those games though, and i'm pretty sure he didn't take 9 marks in any of them.

He also wasn't the best performed KPF on our list during the preseason.

The improvement is happening.
 
Butch was poor against North but hopefully he can redeem himself and kick a bag against Norwood.

Shaw(who might be back this week), Harvey and Butcher in the fwd line for the first time this season (With Redden in the ruck) May be good for everyone.
 

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It appears that even with Redden available Harvey is going to be used ostensibly as a ruckman/forward for the Maggies, he took numerous centre bouncedowns against the chooks, and if Reddo is promoted or injured, Harvs will have to be the main man again.

When Shaw is fit Harvs and Reddo will possibly spend even less time up forward, and may even have to rotate off the bench, as a forward line of Butch, Shaw, Harvey/Reddo could be a little top heavy, particularly when the grounds get damp in June / July.

If all four suit up this weekend I'm assuming Butch will start in the goal square, with Shaw in the pocket, but if the conditions are bad it won't surprise me if Shaw is held back for another week, but when he does play that should give Butch a lot more opportunity to get one out against his opponent.

It will be interesting to see how Reddo handles the bulk of the deadleg's ruckman Flintstone, you could see last week he still hasn't got full confidence in his knee just yet..
 
When your home crowd cheers a kick out on the full you've achieved cult hero status. Once upon a time when football was still a game we embraced these guys and accepted them warts and all. And often they repaid us in their own unco entertaining way.

Yeah Butch flies from impossible angles, his kicks are a magical mystery tour, he runs like Virgil Tracy, his leads are a search party for Lasseter's Reef, he disappears and reappears, he plays on and snaps when you're checking the bottom of the chip packet for scraps. But he still scares the crap out of opposition coaches.

The times they have a changed.
 
Thinking about Butch... does he not understand how to play the no.2 tall forward role?

In the magpies he plays well (not outstanding) when he's no.1. Then we bring him into the Power and he struggles.

Is this because he is avoiding getting in the way of Schulz etc? Thus he isn't playing his own game and not getting into the contest?
 
badbeats said:
Thinking about Butch... does he not understand how to play the no.2 tall forward role?

In the magpies he plays well (not outstanding) when he's no.1. Then we bring him into the Power and he struggles.

Is this because he is avoiding getting in the way of Schulz etc? Thus he isn't playing his own game and not getting into the contest?
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It's definitely getting used to AFL level. There is a huge step up in workrate and tactics between the SANFL and the AFL.

He just needs to play as often as we can get him out there. If he plays, he'll learn his role and he'll improve. We've seen some really good games from him where he's worked well with both Schulz and Westhoff playing. Like every player who isn't Ollie Wines, he will settle in as he approaches 50 games.
 
El_Scorcho said:
It's definitely getting used to AFL level. There is a huge step up in workrate and tactics between the SANFL and the AFL.

He just needs to play as often as we can get him out there. If he plays, he'll learn his role and he'll improve. We've seen some really good games from him where he's worked well with both Schulz and Westhoff playing. Like every player who isn't Ollie Wines, he will settle in as he approaches 50 games.
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When?
 
badbeats said:
Thinking about Butch... does he not understand how to play the no.2 tall forward role?

In the magpies he plays well (not outstanding) when he's no.1. Then we bring him into the Power and he struggles.

Is this because he is avoiding getting in the way of Schulz etc? Thus he isn't playing his own game and not getting into the contest?
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I do feel for Butch because he is such a nice guy..I don't think he is a key position player and I think he doesn't know how to play the role..His mobility, speed and tackling is probably his best asset.Marking and kicking are inconsistent and will not improve..i nearly see him as a better crumbing player than Neade..If he were to play the flank his assets would come into play and the pressure to mark etc would diminish..He would have the chance to mark and kick as the opportunities present themselves, which may be enough at AFL level...Hard flanker to stand
 
Powerstufff said:
Unarguably? For heaven's sake, you just invite attacks on him.
He's failed at AFL level. The only +ve for him is that Hocking/Hinkley are still offering him the KPF role with the Maggies, but he's failing even at SANFL level and Ken's patience can't be infinite. This week will be interesting, he score 1 point in last year's SANFL GF. Will he have any response at all?
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He's also succeeded at afl level.

I'm in the boat of keeping him - at least until we have others go past him.
 
port always said:
I do feel for Butch because he is such a nice guy..I don't think he is a key position player and I think he doesn't know how to play the role..His mobility, speed and tackling is probably his best asset.Marking and kicking are inconsistent and will not improve..i nearly see him as a better crumbing player than Neade..If he were to play the flank his assets would come into play and the pressure to mark etc would diminish..He would have the chance to mark and kick as the opportunities present themselves, which may be enough at AFL level...Hard flanker to stand
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He certainly knew how to play it as a junior, when he was backed in by his coaches, was settled into his role and he and his teammates knew each other's games inside-out.

A 5+ game run in the ones.

That's all I want. Give me a 5+ game run in the ones and I'll shut up.
 
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