Analysis Finding the root of our problems

[ReaperX]

That's what I call real effort not half arsed or even 95% effort....

The first 5 mins of the last qtr last night.... Cotch played like a man possessed.... great. Why doesn't Cotch (and everyone) play like men possessed every minute of every game?

Remember the first qtr against Sydney in 2012.... manic pressure. Just about the best I've ever seen from us...

We're capable of doing it, we just don't, and the reason for WHY we don't is the $64,000 question that Hardwick and his team have proven to be incapable of answering, which is why he needs to go.

 

[Mr Magic]

It's mindset. We are over coached imo with structures and playing our roles.

I agree. A lot is not so much coaching but more to do with lists.

How many teams have the lack of big midfielders with quality we have had? Not many and those like Brisbane with a mosquito fleet are at the bottom for a reason.

How many teams have the role players we have?

IMO really comes down to too many bit players and at some stage when other teams adjust some of our players need to be more than just a role player and play outside the role and they are not good enough. How many of our guys can you rely on against any opposition? How many of our players can get caught out with a different matchup at the oppositions discretion?


Whether some lack pace, some lack strength, some lack height, some lack skill it boils down the fact we have too many guys that are good depth players in specific roles and not enough real quality. Part of this was through recycled players to make us more competitive off a low base which is fine short term, but in terms of chasing premierships a few need to be upgraded to players of far more quality and soundness in how they go about their footy

Some of this is about not picking the eyes out of drafts at the top end when we had the chance.

The top 10 picks of Heppel and Conca have not helped us compared to other teams in terms of lack of real quality at this particularly stage.

It is ancient history but if we had Heppel, and a different draft when we got TV, who knows where we would be. So in that respect we need to make up for lost time and do a list re-shuffle IMO.

If you do not have some players to execute certain plans/actions really such arguments down the coaching line are futile IMO!

Our emphasis on role players was highlighted by the success of McIntosh!! McIntosh provided the extra height, reach, run with skill and a bit of size, despite his inexperience, many of our players simply lack in terms of ability!

We have so many role players in our team it is easier to identify who is not a role player!!!

Excluding our youngsters many of whom still need to develop these are the mature types that are not role players IMO. Martin, Cotch, Lids, Griffiths, Rance and that is pretty much it, possibly Mcintosh but I will throw him in the young category. Most of the other mature players have inhibitors that limit them to a role in a certain way whether it is endurance, speed or whatever else. Some are very good. For example JR is very good but he lacks speed and endurance to play in other positions against top opposition.

Someone like Roughead and Hodge are not role players. They win ball in the guts ruck, or anyway else they are depending on the position etc..

 

[WATiger86]

For me it has been rebuilding through compromised drafts which has left us where we are. Don't forget just how bad we were when hardwick took over.

Our list is full of blokes who's ceiling is being a C grader IMO. For the most part our blokes cracked in last night, or at least we won enough ball to win the game. But we could have made it count for more if not for fumbles and basic skill errors. Take out first rounders like lids, conca, vickery etc and it's no wonder we lacked class and polish.

With no injuries we can compete with most sides, but our so called depth is nothing more than battlers and joirneymen

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Has anyone mentioned that Dustin only performs when a contract is up for renewal ?

 

[Tiger Claw]

Having spent time around the club via work for many years it is my opinion there is a hurdle regarding work ethic that just won't go away.

Dimma has backed in his players to step up and from what I've seen they sure have to.

Talk is that players are pressured on a win. For mine they should be pressured to work. IF they work the wins should follow.

As for Dimma - he's backed in the side to lift. Lifting not just in our game plan but defence of it too and we fail in the later

The whole mantra of beating the best on our day is thin.

You don't beat anyone - talent, game plan etc unless you are the best at what you do AND being the best at negating what others will do to you. We fail in the latter and in the former because we don't appreciate or get the right message sent that 'playing the Richmond way' isn't just about going forward.

 

[Neen]

The nine game streak last year reminded me of the 2001 season when the players basically played as a cohesive unit. There was nothing special coming from the coaches box. It was almost like the side took Frawley along for the ride. Ditto the 9 game streak last year. The rabbit out of the hat was sending Martin forward.

Coaches don't have the balls to make hard decisions. Forward coach has absolutely no clue how to structure a forward line. Local under 13s are more structured and have better skills in front of goals.

Last year, Benny Gale disappeared overseas in our darkest hours. That really pissed me off. This year, there's nowhere to hide. We won't even look like we can take out our frustrations on GWS again. On last nights form, they would easily account for our soft brand of football.

The root of our problems is that we are the most loyal supporters to continue putting up with poor performances year after year. We still buy memberships that buy the players their flashy cars and houses. They don't earn it on the back of success. This year, if things keep going, there will be supporters that will simply wait until something is done. In the meantime, they won't attend games. That's the only way the club will wake up to itself. Dimmas presser last night was an absolute joke. We WILL NOT beat anyone on our day. We don't have the cattle (injuries and poor form). That was the worst thing he could have said. Geelong will use that sentence, and they will monster us the same way Melbourne did. I know, Dimma didn't miss three sets shots from 25 meters out, and he didn't miss the "captain's goal" from 40 m out. But he did let Jones run riot and swing the game. He did not adapt to the conditions.

I love the jumper. I love the history. I will never stop supporting the club. I just see another season unfolding where mediocrity is accepted. I don't know the answers, but the arrogance and stupidity of Dimma's presser showed that he has lost this group, or the players simply won't follow the instructions. Something will change at the end of the year. Another wasted year.

 

[Tigerland]

Too many apologists for the club. Too many soft supporters putting up with average results.

Dimma's a good bloke, blah blah blah. Who gives a *. He cannot coach to a level than can take a side to a premiership
Anyone that think he can is a farking idiot! Simples

There are plenty on here than think he can - complete morons.

Let's here it for the twits about to defend him. Idiots. Wake up!

 

[tigs2010]

Has anyone mentioned that Dustin only performs when a contract is up for renewal ?

Not sure that's right. Performed last year when he'd only just signed. But he certainly picks and chooses when to turn up.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Not sure that's right. Performed last year when he'd only just signed. But he certainly picks and chooses when to turn up.

Was working on the contract he's just signed .

 

[sante]

Not sure that's right. Performed last year when he'd only just signed. But he certainly picks and chooses when to turn up.

I thought he was one of the few throwing his body around and barking orders on the ground. He hasn't been the match winner from previous years but it's probably moreso because he's been given a role to play

 

[tunksy]

Funnily enough we have gone backwards since jack left the leadership group imo he should still be in it. He genuinely feels and its always visable.

 

[ron batten]

Funnily enough we have gone backwards since jack left the leadership group imo he should still be in it. He genuinely feels and its always visable.

Looked at the side selected yesterday and went to the Tab and backed Melbourne if you want to make money wait to the side we are playing are over $3 dollars and back them better than than investing in the share market

 

[PetterdHoisted]

It's mindset. We are over coached imo with structures and playing our roles.

Programmed all wrong. Stuck a pencil in my eye Friday night in the last quarter, Someone (Brandon?) got the ball reasonably in the clear after Melb cleared our fifty.
First thing he did...looked backwards for an option!!
Couldn't believe it.
Natural instincts have been trained out of 'em.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Like I mean LITERALLY you have a person watching the game, and for every missed tackle, they note down that $100 is to be taken from that players pay cheque. DOCK. MATCH. PAYMENTS. Starting now.

LOL, AFLPA computer says........no.

If we are not at 100% TPP, perhaps we could introduce performance bonuses, but we're not docking pay!

 

[SBYM]

I tell ya what...it ain't Maric...

Did anyone just see what he said on C7?

He is a fairdinkum legend that bloke...

 

[TigerImposter]

What did he say? It must have been good bc my bull s**t meter hasn't gone off all day

 

[SBYM]

What did he say? It must have been good bc my bull s**t meter hasn't gone off all day

Basil was doing his wrap up of the round thus far and he made some comment about the s**t hitting the fan down at Punt Road. They then showed some footage of some nobody sticking a mic in Ivan's face first thing this morning and asking something like, Do you guys have any belief?

Ivan (with the hair and all that) just looked at the reporter like the deadshit he is and replied, Of course there's belief, we think we can win every game, wouldn't be here if we didn't...typical words of course, but the way he delivered them was brilliant. His eyes drilled through the reporter like lasers, and his face just screamed, you're a campaigner.

I thought it was top notch.

 

[Tigerbob]

I thought he was one of the few throwing his body around and barking orders on the ground. He hasn't been the match winner from previous years but it's probably moreso because he's been given a role to play

Remember his first year before he was Dimmad?

Question is why was he ruined? Moved around everywhere except played in the role that made him an instant star?

Looking at Nat Fyfe, did Lyon play him all over the park for education? No, he's a gun on baller, stay there and learn that role. He's now the star of the league.

What Martin could of been, without Hardwick coaching his natural talent out of him.

Don't get me started on Jack and Cotchin.

 

[Black Saab]

We just need someone smarter as coach . Someone who can get the best out of his players . Someone that can see what is happening or going to happen during the game and can make the appropriate changes to our advantage and most of all someone that has a fierce will and mongrel to succeed not someone that makes excuses before a ball has even been bounced and makes excuses for the players when they are not performing .

Ball Cuppers like Sanderson , Brad Scott and Guy McKenna need not apply .

I wonder what things would have turned out like if Ken Hinkley was coach instead? Maybe no different?

 

[TigerImposter]

Basil was doing his wrap up of the round thus far and he made some comment about the s**t hitting the fan down at Punt Road. They then showed some footage of some nobody sticking a mic in Ivan's face first thing this morning and asking something like, Do you guys have any belief?

Ivan (with the hair and all that) just looked at the reporter like the deadshit he is and replied, Of course there's belief, we think we can win every game, wouldn't be here if we didn't...typical words of course, but the way he delivered them was brilliant. His eyes drilled through the reporter like lasers, and his face just screamed, you're a campaigner.

I thought it was top notch.

Thanks Mate for the information
I must admit Ivaaaaan has the funniest face and eye combo ,add the hairdo and it makes him a total pisser

 

[SdKfz 181]

Dimma is done, we agree on that.

But again, there is no fear of death in these players should they not pressure and chase.

If you literally said to every player that a missed tackle costs them $100, how many tackles would they miss?

Like I mean LITERALLY you have a person watching the game, and for every missed tackle, they note down that $100 is to be taken from that players pay cheque.

And for every time a player corrals an opponent instead of tackling them and running at them, it's another $80. Per time.

And every time a player doesn't get lower than his opponent when going for a ball, another $50 per time.

You might think it sounds silly, but good god I promise we wouldn't lose many games if this system was ACTUALLY implemented somehow, and then enforced.

These players don't care about the club, but they do care about their wallets. So if we can't get them to play for the pride of the guernsey, we must appeal to their greed, and strip them of what is truly important to them. And that goes beyond just threatening to make changes the following week to the team.

DOCK. MATCH. PAYMENTS. Starting now.

And we will play in a Prelim this year, even with Hardwick.

give it up, the afl players association would never allow such a ridiculous proposal..

 

[Blueyboy74]

It's mindset. We are over coached imo with structures and playing our roles.

It is 100% this. Perfectly summed up Sante.

Mindset. Mindset. Mindset.

The question is what causes it and how can it be fixed? Is it simply a character flaw of the players collectively? You would hope not, given that in the last 5 or so years we have made a such bid deal about recruiting 'character'. Hopefully this referenced football character and not whether they spend spare time at children's orphanages, admirable as that may be.

Do the coaches demand enough of the players in terms of effort, attacking the contest, helping out a teammate, gut-running etc? Or are they a bit too clinical with with their planning and reviewing, overloading the minds of the players with tactics & structure to the detriment of the basic fundamentals required to win a game of elite football. ... playing on instinct and as though your life depends upon it.

Different levels of professionalism I know, but I can tell you from having played competitive sport for over 30 years, even at the lower levels your mindset is just so important.

I am still playing competitive cricket and to give an analogy, say I am batting and the bowler is approaching the crease. If my mind is is clear, yet positive, I will usually capitalise on the errant delivery. If I'm in survival mode, however, I am likely to block a full-bunger or half-tracker. I reckon our guys seem just that - to be in survival mode where they look hesitant, unsure, robotic even .. and in that split second the opposition have seized the initiative. No co-incidence that when we played last year as if though there was nothing to lose, we played our best football.

 

[TigerImposter]

It is 100% this. Perfectly summed up Sante.

Mindset. Mindset. Mindset.

The question is what causes it and how can it be fixed? Is it simply a character flaw of the players collectively? You would hope not, given that in the last 5 or so years we have made a such bid deal about recruiting 'character'. Hopefully this referenced football character and not whether they spend spare time at children's orphanages, admirable as that may be.

Do the coaches demand enough of the players in terms of effort, attacking the contest, helping out a teammate, gut-running etc? Or are they a bit too clinical with with their planning and reviewing, overloading the minds of the players with tactics & structure to the detriment of the basic fundamentals required to win a game of elite football. ... playing on instinct and as though your life depends upon it.

Different levels of professionalism I know, but I can tell you from having played competitive sport for over 30 years, even at the lower levels your mindset is just so important.

I am still playing competitive cricket and to give an analogy, say I am batting and the bowler is approaching the crease. If my mind is is clear, yet positive, I will usually capitalise on the errant delivery. If I'm in survival mode, however, I am likely to block a full-bunger or half-tracker. I reckon our guys seem just that - to be in survival mode where they look hesitant, unsure, robotic even .. and in that split second the opposition have seized the initiative. No co-incidence that when we played last year as if though there was nothing to lose, we played our best football.

Great post. This is one of many of our problems caused by the players that DH has selected for his game plan
It has taken away the natural flair even out of our attacking players
Just look at Jack Martin and Cotchin there only a shadow of themselves .its even destroying Ivan Maric as he is doing dainty little mid drift tackles like Hammer
Which is actually increasing his workload due to more close in contested work
The game plan was designed around plodders not for footballers with natural instinct
Edwards has been about the only player to improve out of it bc he has the line breaking speed and class to break tags, but coaches will be onto him and they will put more physical pressure onto him
Our type of football is back to the stage where it's an eyesore and really not worth watching bc most of the time the ball is forced wide and our poor goal kicking
Our talls are under extra pressure to get the ball and score whilst the substandard crumbers we have are basically with no chance
It appears Miles has also been infected by this disease of DH and the above reasons are just a few of many why DH is a poor coach and must look for a career in umpire administration and Wayne Campbell should come back full time with our new coaching panel

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Remember his first year before he was Dimmad?

Question is why was he ruined? Moved around everywhere except played in the role that made him an instant star?

Looking at Nat Fyfe, did Lyon play him all over the park for education? No, he's a gun on baller, stay there and learn that role. He's now the star of the league.

What Martin could of been, without Hardwick coaching his natural talent out of him.

Don't get me started on Jack and Cotchin.

Crap , Martin's issue is it's come to easy . He is a lazy prick and one of the roots of our issues. Picks and chooses .

 

[TigerImposter]

Too many apologists for the club. Too many soft supporters putting up with average results.

Dimma's a good bloke, blah blah blah. Who gives a *. He cannot coach to a level than can take a side to a premiership
Anyone that think he can is a farking idiot! Simples

There are plenty on here than think he can - complete morons.

Let's here it for the twits about to defend him. Idiots. Wake up!

I'm with you brother
Worked him out in his first year. He's an apologist , a big papa with the boys and follower not a creator
It's what the club wanted at the Time to increase its public profile by using their media spin
He's a puppet a bit like how Obama got elected , but bullshit only takes you so far before it all unravels
I admit I've been his harshest critic and the original plan at least had a purpose and got us out of the financial rut , but its dragged on for too long and is now having the opposite effect
One trick pony coach with a team full of one trick ponies who are better known as battlers