Israel, Palestine, and everything related

[blackcat]

lol some "genocide".

The Palestinian population in 1948 was roughly 1.3 million and has now grown to over 5.5 million - the highest it's ever been. So in reality, it is the opposite of what you are saying.

But don't let facts get in the way of your rant. Carry on.

exactly. the media tend to lose this fact too. they do lose multiple pro palestinian perspectives, and they need to show the inhumanity under an IDF yoke, but the population is much greater than it was 100 years ago. They have basically grown in similar rate, but mostly the increase from israel has not been from the sabras, the israeli second, third, fourth, fifth generation israelis.

under one definition, that appellation could be used. because it would be valid. BUT, in terms of the popular understanding, and used as epithet and weapon of criticism, its palpably, manifesting wrong. the other definition refers to something like e.jerusalem, and what happens to bedouin. But, see: Abbott's quote on indigenous here, no difference compared to their policy wrt bedouin.

 

[Lemma]

They don't need to say it, their actions speak loud & clear. Israel does not need nukes to end Palestine, perhaps they subscribe to Keatingisms.. 'I'm gunna do you slowly'?

If they wanted to end Palestine, it would have been done by now.

 

[Number37]

If they wanted to end Palestine, it would have been done by now.

It is not in Israel's interests to end Palestine... notwithstanding that they don't have the gumption to do it once and for all.
It is in Israel's interests to have a perpetual war, there is zero benefit to Israel for ending the conflict.

 

[Lemma]

It is not in Israel's interests to end Palestine... notwithstanding that they don't have the gumption to do it once and for all.
It is in Israel's interests to have a perpetual war, there is zero benefit to Israel for ending the conflict.

To lose soldiers? Have more public perception turn against them? Further fracture relations w the US?
Notwithstanding, that it is not always Israel's choice whether they are at war or not? Are they expected not to defend themselves?

Most Israelis want to live in peace

I'm not arguing just to disagree with you, I actually don't understand your POV

 

[blackcat]

If they wanted to end Palestine, it would have been done by now.

yes and no.

they could have. benny morris said they should have force marched them in 48 out of the entire mandate.

but, remember, they live in the hornets nest, they need to fly over the countries in the hornets nest. best to develop sound relationships with your neighbours. even if the original king hussein of jordan was a treacherous bastard and eyeing off the west bank for himself, and indeed, he took over the soverignty for decades. cnut that guy. so, yeah, those arab and muslem pontentates were always gonna sell out the palestinians too. something that is much lost

 

[Number37]

To lose soldiers? Have more public perception turn against them? Further fracture relations w the US?
Notwithstanding, that it is not always Israel's choice whether they are at war or not? Are they expected not to defend themselves?

Most Israelis want to live in peace

I'm not arguing just to disagree with you, I actually don't understand your POV

Of course the people want to live in peace, on both sides.
Seems utterly ridiculous to claim to want to 'live in peace' then proceed to perpetuate a war, the blame for that lies squarely with the politicians, on both sides. That they don't want Palestine recognised as a state says it is all about politics. International law sets out the criteria for statehood, which Palestine clearly meets. The most important part of the law is the right to self determination, seems to me like the Palestinians have self determined but Israel ( & it's cronies) are denying them that right. The only answer they give is 'the rockets', the real reason would be what happens after Palestine is recognised. I suspect Israel knows it would be much more difficult to periodically march their army into Palestine and do as they please.
For Israel to do as it pleases it is in Israel's interests to perpetuate a war.

 

[blackcat]

Of course the people want to live in peace, on both sides.
Seems utterly ridiculous to claim to want to 'live in peace' then proceed to perpetuate a war, the blame for that lies squarely with the politicians, on both sides.

America and Israel that is. Abu Mazen is a puppet. There is never like equals in negotiation. there has never been negotiation. the UN and their eunuch infuence, are obviously ineffective. But dont say the Pals dont do non-violent resistance. non-violent resistance that never will be covered, ofcourse. no one demands it off fairfax or newslimited. insofar as there is blame, blame yourself, and blame me. but there are other hotspots of more pain and victim. but not the emotive wound as this, which is completely out of proportion. but, the manifest ignorance on this occupation offers a cipher into the publics consumption of the media, and the publics learning thru misinformation, because no one has any grounding. that said, i know not much, and know nothing about ukraine and african conflict zones neither. and i know jack here, but i know propaganda when it repeats the talking points.

 

[CountryRace]

The extremist right-wing Israeli newspaper „Israel National News“ published an opinion piece on Tuesday in which it called for Israel to attack Germany and Iran with nuclear bombs. The article claims that only through the nuclear annihilation of Germany and Iran, with 20 or 30 nuclear bombs, can Israelis prevent destruction of the state.

„If Israel does not follow the way of the Torah, it will be almost completely destroyed by a severe punishment and only a few will survive“ writes Chen Ben-Eliyahu, the author of the piece, in Hebrew.

Israel must respond in kind in order to prevent this. “We must answer an existential threat with an existential threat”; he writes, “not with speeches to the US-Congress. We must make it clear to the Iranians that Israel will wipe out their nuclear program and Teheran and Isfahan as well.

“If an enemy sets out to destroy you, then you must destroy him first. Twenty or thirty nuclear bombs will get the job done”, he explains.

He reminds the Israelis of their near destruction at the hands of the Nazis and calls for revenge on Germany, although the German government is now, next to the US, Israel’s biggest supporter.

Ben-Eliyahu demands a turnaround of the „Final Solution“ and writes „twenty to thirty nuclear bombs on Berlin, Munich, Nuremberg, Cologne, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Dresden, Dortmund and so on will ensure obliteration.” And in allusion to the “Thousand Year Reich” he continues, “afterwards the country will be quiet for a thousand years“.


http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/14/4489

Isreal right wants to nuke ze Germans

 

[Werewolf]

Isreal right wants to nuke ze Germans

Ummmm... since when does a nutbag newspaper represent the government of Israel?

 

[Geelong_Bisons_#36]

lol some "genocide".

The Palestinian population in 1948 was roughly 1.3 million and has now grown to over 5.5 million - the highest it's ever been. So in reality, it is the opposite of what you are saying.

But don't let facts get in the way of your rant. Carry on.

Hey straunchhy, was that you flying the Israeli flag at today's 'Reclaim Australia' rally!!
Bahahahahahahaha.

 

[The Edukator]

Out of interest, Are you a member of the socialist alternative gb36?

 

[strauchnyy]

Hey straunchhy, was that you flying the Israeli flag at today's 'Reclaim Australia' rally!!
Bahahahahahahaha.

Oh GB you crack me up! It was, how you guess?

I was right near you, you were the one with the ISIS flag? Or burning the aus flag?

 

[telsor]

Rabin almost made peace and was killed by a radical terrorist orthodox Jew

The PLO almost made peace and Hamas sprung up...

Both sides have their extremists. The Jews however are a lot more likely to to critcise/arrest theirs. Hamas and their supporters promote and celebrate theirs...

 

[telsor]

If he's saying that the state of Israel makes the lives of the Palestinians better, then clearly yes he is full of s**t.

Palestinians in Israel generally have more rights/better lives than those in neighboring countries.

Not saying life is perfect there for them, but it is (or at least can be) better than the alternatives.

 

[CountryRace]

The PLO almost made peace and Hamas sprung up...

Both sides have their extremists. The Jews however are a lot more likely to to critcise/arrest theirs. Hamas and their supporters promote and celebrate theirs...

really?

sounds like anti-gentile prɒpəˈɡandə to me

 

[strauchnyy]

really?

sounds like anti-gentile prɒpəˈɡandə to me

Yeh, nah.

Of course you do.

 

[CountryRace]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/elisekn...d-african-immigrant-women-with-birth-control/

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Some of the IDF apologism in this thread is disgraceful. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

No fair and reasonable person can justify what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians.

Those of you who are trying to justify it are showing your true colours.

 

[CountryRace]

I'd like to hear what doctor catblack has to say on the matter

 

[CountryRace]

"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

 

[blackcat]

I'd like to hear what doctor catblack has to say on the matter

if you read my complete contribution, you would see I am one of the critics. But to be rigorous, one needs to look at ones own operation/ know thyself.

I usually just leave it with the Thucydides quote on power. time immemorial. humans are cnuts. marines are cnuts. adf are cnuts. the idf also disproportionate headshot kills of palestinian kids who throw stones cos their state and media has "other'ed" <verb'ed> the palestinians and the historical narrative. Its easy to criticise the Israelis, but when you dissect the home(Canberra) operations, it becomes clearer that it is just the cr@p states pull cos they can. oh, there is a sniping(sniper school) training class at a self-defense class in caulfield, that do Krav MAga martial arts. I find that confronting, but I can see the reality where it comes from.

whats your opinion on things tho Country Race cos you are reasonably outspoken.

 

[blackcat]

Some of the IDF apologism in this thread is disgraceful. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

hyperbole SB.

its figbooty. put it in context.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

hyperbole SB.

its figbooty. put it in context.

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[RW]

The issues young Arabs do see as their top concerns–ISIS, terrorism, and unemployment–are all issues on which cooperation with Israel could be beneficial, and in some cases, it’s already taking place. For instance, Israeli-Egyptian cooperation on counterterrorism is closer than it’s been in years–not only against Hamas, but also against the ISIS branch in Sinai, Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis. Israel and Jordan cooperate closely on counterterrorism as well, and it’s a safe bet that quiet cooperation is also occurring with certain other Arab states that officially have no relations with Israel.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/...-agree-israel-isnt-arab-worlds-major-problem/

But... Israel is evil and must be stopped. Right? Right?

 

[medusala]

Shouldn't be surprised I suppose by their barbarity. Imagine if these allegations were against UK or US soldiers, outrage would be immense.

The link has the pdf attachment of the full report.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...ot-innocent-civilians-because-they-were-bored

In a 242-page report titled "This is How We Fought in Gaza 2014" which was accompanied by videotaped confessions that aired on Israeli TV, the organization of active and reserve duty soldiers, called Breaking the Silence, gathered testimonies from more than 60 enlisted men and officers who served in Gaza during Operation Protective Edge.

The soldiers said they were told by commanders to view all Palestinians in the combat zones as a potential threat, whether they brandished weapons or not. Individuals spotted in windows and rooftops — especially if they were speaking on cellphones — were often considered scouts and could be shot.


A first sergeant serving in the Mechanized Infantry in Gaza told the group, “If we don’t see someone waving a white flag, screaming, ‘I give up’ or something — then he’s a threat and there’s authorization to open fire.”