Kyle Hartigan - Contender or pretender?

[Mismatched]

I'd be throwing big money at Alex Rance

Rance, Carlisle, Henderson... Needs to be done. Erred massively not picking up another ready to go key tall or three last trade/draft period. We were already thin on the ground, then lose Rutten to retirement, Otten to injury and Thompson to delistment, whilst knowing Shaws unreliability, and pick up Lever and Cheney. Thank the almighty duck that Noble no longer heads list management, his ability to ensure we have adequate tall cover has been deplorable. We've been lucky Jacobs, Rutten and Talia have been so durable.

We've known about Ruttens retirement for years, yet our efforts to replace him in advance total Hartigan and Siggins. That's it. Then we draft Lever the year Rutten leaves.

Posters keep harping on about getting Hartigan to 50 games, he's 23 FFS, the same age as Talia, he was recruited as a mature ager, he'll be close to 25 by the time he reaches 50 games and that's if he plays every game here on in. Quite frankly I'm not too sure he's got that much improvement left, I think we're pretty close to WYSIWYG. He's certainly not going to get bigger and stronger, he's had heaps of experience as a KPD at state league level playing as such, he was a defender as a junior. He's a depth level KPD, not an AFL starting 18 KPD. Siggins certainly isn't the answer, nor are Otten or Shaw and Lever looks better suited to an offensive 3rd tall role.

Having said this, I do hope Hartigan proves me wrong and I wish him the best in doing so.

/rant

 

[dylan123]

Not a great game today but showed in games lime round 1 where he kept Waite to 0 goals that he can play this level

We need to get 50 games into him and I'm sure we will see the development of a 50 game player

Was that because he was a decent defender that game or because the ball hardly made it inside North's forward 50?


I thought he was pathetic today, not just his kicking skills that often get talked about, it's just the general way he defends in which he appears to be so very poor in my eyes. There was an instance today where someone from the Dogs kicked a long kick from the midfield into the forward 50, Hartigan then looks to see where Stringer is running and starts to run after him to try and catch up. If he was smart, he would have just looked at the ball and ran straight at it. Had he done this, he would have made it to the contest in time and either had the option to contest the mark or throw a fist in to hopefully spoil the ball. Instead he ran backwards after Stringer and then tried to follow him running forwards towards the ball and was 2 steps behind, just poor defending.


I still can't get over the fact we didn't try to find another mature aged KP defender in the off season in case Hartigan wasn't fit for the position because we really don't have a plan B at the moment.

 

[DD#23]

Was that because he was a decent defender that game or because the ball hardly made it inside North's forward 50?

North were only 10 i50's behind us, we actually did a very good job of repelling the ball as well as limiting the quality of entry.

 

[CIDA]

Hartigan was really bad today, but Stringer would have smashed anybody we put on him. Talia was moved to him, and 2 minutes later he was lining up for a shot on goal, which he should have kicked. We just didn't have a match up for him today.

Even so, I still think he's a pretender. The only time he looks remotely good is when our 'team defence/press' holds up. We were exposed today and he was beaten time and time again due to a lack of football nous.

 

[dylan123]

North were only 10 i50's behind us, we actually did a very good job of repelling the ball as well as limiting the quality of entry.

I guess everyone shares a bit of the blame and a bit of the credit. I blamed our forwards a little in another thread for not really adapting to our poor entries so I can't really go too back on that but today we only had 12 less inside 50's yet we didn't look anywhere near as good as the Dogs. The inside 50 stats can be a bit misleading depending on the sort of entry, it seems every time teams actually get to do as they please Hartigan is also beaten. He can't take all the blame for that as sometimes there isn't much he can do, but he just gets beaten too often when it isn't on our terms. Someone like Talia can often keep his man quiet even when we're struggling as a team and we need to see a lot more of this from Hartigan if he's to ever remain as a KP defender for our side in the future years.

 

[40porpoise]

Was pretty happy with his game today.

Provided some humour in an otherwise miserable day. You could see a Hartigan turnover coming from a million miles away, and the mark which landed on his head was amazing

 

[headache1]

Even so, I still think he's a pretender. The only time he looks remotely good is when our 'team defence/press' holds up. We were exposed today and he was beaten time and time again due to a lack of football nous.

He was faced with a forward that was far too agile and fast for him. Footy smarts probably had something to do with it as well, but I think today we learned that with Hartigan, it's either a big forward, or nobody for him. He needs to be played on a true key forward, or not play at all IMO. Unfortunately, we're not exactly flush for options down back at the moment.

I posted this in the Lever thread a little earlier...

A player like Stringer is the Crows backline worst nightmare. He's strong, agile, fast, smart, and very talented. The only player we have who might be able to keep him quiet, is Cheney. As we saw today, he's too quick and agile for Hartigan/Talia, and too strong for anybody else we have in the backline. When the defensive side of our midfield breaks down (or just doesn't show up like today), he and players like him will have us on toast.

Kelly should turn into a player for us that can match up on these types of forwards, but is far too green for someone as good as Stringer at present.

Stringer is quality, and going forward, he is not the kind of match up we want for Hartigan. Hartigan may not make it as an AFL player, but I don't think we should use match ups like today as a measure as to whether or not that is the case, especially when our midfield was providing no resistance through the middle of the ground.

What I was most unimpressed with today, were the mistakes he made while under little to no pressure, but he wasn't alone there.

 

[relapse]

Hartigan will only ever be a 3rd tall, the problem is what do we do in the meantime until Lever is ready to play as the 2nd tall down back ?

Honestly I don't think we have much choice other than to keep throwing Hartigan into the deep end and hope that he learns to swim.

 

[hippyhippy]

I too have lost faith in him. He is not afl standard. It pains me to say it. .. but shoenmakers is a much better player than he is.

 

[FantasticShirt]

I still can't get over the fact we didn't try to find another mature aged KP defender in the off season in case Hartigan wasn't fit for the position because we really don't have a plan B at the moment.

How do you know we didn't? We landed Cheney as a 3rd tall so it's clear we were looking for defenders. Unfortunately there just ain't many around wanting to leave, and seemingly none wanting to come to the Crows.

 

[Sanders]

How do you know we didn't? We landed Cheney as a 3rd tall so it's clear we were looking for defenders. Unfortunately there just ain't many around wanting to leave, and seemingly none wanting to come to the Crows.

Think that's a cop out straight out of the craigy/triggy bromance play book

 

[hippyhippy]

It's so gut wrenching when he has to dispose of it. .. everyone says afl is a game of momentum and it really hurts when you lose your momentum to a turnover or you give the opposition the momentum... happens multiple times every game with Hartigan.

 

[FantasticShirt]

Think that's a cop out straight out of the craigy/triggy bromance play book

Name some defenders we could've snagged in the off season then?

 

[Sanders]

Name some defenders we could've snagged in the off season then?

There you go again Neil

Show me the secret list of everyone who was and wasn't available?

 

[Ravenous Crow]

Hartigan will only ever be a 3rd tall, the problem is what do we do in the meantime until Lever is ready to play as the 2nd tall down back ?

Honestly I don't think we have much choice other than to keep throwing Hartigan into the deep end and hope that he learns to swim.

I disagree. Ideally you want those third tall types to provide some kind of rebound/ability to work off their man. No coach wants their play set up through Hartigan. It's dinosaur stopper KPD or bust for him.

 

[Bicks]

Pretender - are we all convinced now? His saving grace was that he was decent in the contest. He was pantsed by Stringer today and made mistake after mistake.

And I got rubbished for suggesting we should go after Michael Talia at the end of last year who was deadest pissed off with McCartney....Hello to all those numpties, they know who they are!!

Luke Thompson >>>>>>Kyle Hartigan

 

[dylan123]

How do you know we didn't? We landed Cheney as a 3rd tall so it's clear we were looking for defenders. Unfortunately there just ain't many around wanting to leave, and seemingly none wanting to come to the Crows.

I struggle to believe there isn't one KP defender worth having a crack on in the state leagues, even if the player appeared to be as average as Hartigan, it would at least give us someone to switch with if Hartigan was playing poorly or we get an injury to either of Talia and Hartigan because at this very moment, I can't even imagine who would come in to fill a KP spot if Talia/Hartigan were unable to play next week.

 

[hey shorty]

He was diabolical yesterday. I felt sorry for him as his confidence just drained out of him. He wasnt just bad with ball in hand but was smashed defensively.

Stringer was the only real match up and is a very good player. The type of player we recruited Fetta for, not Hartigan. But those who talk of Master Aish being the number 1 priority need only look to yesterday to see a key defender is by far our biggest need, followed by a 2nd tall forward.

Carlisle, Henderson or Rance....... we MUST land one of them.

 

[Skippy231]

Rance, Carlisle, Henderson... Needs to be done. Erred massively not picking up another ready to go key tall or three last trade/draft period. We were already thin on the ground, then lose Rutten to retirement, Otten to injury and Thompson to delistment, whilst knowing Shaws unreliability, and pick up Lever and Cheney. Thank the almighty duck that Noble no longer heads list management, his ability to ensure we have adequate tall cover has been deplorable. We've been lucky Jacobs, Rutten and Talia have been so durable.

We've known about Ruttens retirement for years, yet our efforts to replace him in advance total Hartigan and Siggins. That's it. Then we draft Lever the year Rutten leaves.

Posters keep harping on about getting Hartigan to 50 games, he's 23 FFS, the same age as Talia, he was recruited as a mature ager, he'll be close to 25 by the time he reaches 50 games and that's if he plays every game here on in. Quite frankly I'm not too sure he's got that much improvement left, I think we're pretty close to WYSIWYG. He's certainly not going to get bigger and stronger, he's had heaps of experience as a KPD at state league level playing as such, he was a defender as a junior. He's a depth level KPD, not an AFL starting 18 KPD. Siggins certainly isn't the answer, nor are Otten or Shaw and Lever looks better suited to an offensive 3rd tall role.

Having said this, I do hope Hartigan proves me wrong and I wish him the best in doing so.

/rant

I recon Noble would have loved to draft a few more KPPs but there was this issue of a lack of draft picks.

 

[footy4ever]

He's played 14 games. His game yesterday was as bad as most of his team mates. Made some bad mistakes. Had one ripping goal-save. Interesting to note he had 3 clangers - one less than Tex and Brodie Smith, and the same number as R Sloane, R Douglas, M Jeansch, R. Laird, D MacKay. He also had 7 one %ers, second only to D Talia. Not a good game from Hartigan but is still learning and doesn't warrant assassination…yet.

 

[DJ75]

There you go again Neil

Show me the secret list of everyone who was and wasn't available?

That Phil Davis guy would have been handy.

Do you know that we didn't speak to his management at all before he re-signed. Not at all. No offer, no contact. Surely it wouldn't have hurt to have had a go?

 

[mulz]

Its gonna be very painful if we have to wait for hartigan to get to 50 afl games.

We really are feeling the affects of the loss of draft picks now. Other teams talent is starting to shine thru

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

He was diabolical yesterday. I felt sorry for him as his confidence just drained out of him. He wasnt just bad with ball in hand but was smashed defensively.

Stringer was the only real match up and is a very good player. The type of player we recruited Fetta for, not Hartigan. But those who talk of Master Aish being the number 1 priority need only look to yesterday to see a key defender is by far our biggest need, followed by a 2nd tall forward.

Carlisle, Henderson or Rance....... we MUST land one of them.

Their midfield also ran rings around us in terms of pace and skill which meant our defence was under the pump and our forwards were starved of quality opportunity. They've used their early picks recently on midfielders/forwards and it appears to be paying dividends.

 

[creme_fraiche]

Horrible game but still must be persisted with.

My great fear is that if he keeps getting completely mauled his confidence will be shot at this level. Needs to be carefully managed mentally.

Has the tools if he can pull it all together.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

We need to get 50 games into Lever as soon as possible...