Research Victorian Football Leagues Over Time - Version 1

[Michael Riley]

I have been building an Excel document on the history of football Leagues over time. It is a much bigger project than I thought, so I thought I might share and see if anyone is interested in building it as a project. But it has raised some interesting points. (I have done a lot of copying and pasting from wikipedia, et al)

With this data, we could begin to answer:

• When did football transition from ad-hoc organisation, to trophy competitions and Leagues. This appears to me to be the 1890's and 1900s. I actually believe that the late 1890's were a difficult time for Football with flagging interest. Does the data support this?

• Was there a flow on affect? When one league formed and locked clubs in, did that force surrounding clubs to do the same and form their own leagues

• Many changes occurred in the 1890's, 1930's and early 1990's. Is it a coincidence that these were economic major depressions?

• How many Leagues shut down due to WW1 and WW2. It appears that it is a wide majority that did so. If the big majority did shut down, why did the others keep playing? (Transport issues, lack of players affected all Leagues)

• Many Leagues name changed from 'Association' to 'League'. Was this to indicate their change of allegience from VFA to VFL?

• The Country football League formed in the late 1920's and appears to have had a big impact on reoganizing leagues. Many leagues date from this period. It is facinating that so many teams only provide their history as part of their current League allegience and not their history in prior Leagues. This is at all levels.

• Very few Leagues indcate when they becan incorporating netball into their league names, but they do track many other small name variations. Seems odd. Why is this so?

• Was the structure of Leagues dependant on transport. And was transport the real determinant of the 'barassi line' divining rugby from Aussie Rules. Pre 1960's Leagues appear to be built around rail infrastructure. In fact I believe that rail determines the structure of the Leagues. More recently that changed as motor transport allowed clubs to be more flexible in their allegiance.

 

[SJ]

Great stuff Michael Riley.

I probably can't help you too much but I find these sort of questions fascinating too.

A small thing, but a quick look at your spreadsheet and I notice you have "1996" down under VFL/AFL breakaway from VFA.

 

[Michael Riley]

Yeah - I am sure there are many typos - I originally started the sheet to see if there was a pattern. It looks like there is but there is a need for further information.

 

[killer]

Can you tell me what are VFL and VFA subdistricts?
I'm reading Up where Cazaly page 108 hes got these 1930s era
subdistricts sitting between seconds and amateur leagues

 

[Michael Riley]

I dont have much on the Sub districts -
I believe that the VFA sub districts started in 1928. I tracked most Melbourne leagues through the 1920s and I dont have anything before then.


Association Sub District Association
1928
Stanley
St Judes
South Yarra
Preston Amateurs
Port United
South Elsternwick
North Williamstown
South United
Tooronga
Burnley
East Preston
Victoria Park

B Grade
Thornbury
Clifton Hill Districts
Alphington
Yarrasiders
Milsun?
Port Melbourne Rramblers
Armadale
St Andrews

 

[Michael Riley]

I have a list of clubs in the League Sub Districts through the 1920s. Kew and Sunshine played in this League through the 1930s

I would agree that it is a tier down from the Seconds. I wish I could add more

 

[royals1922]

Just a query. Was there a real or even theoretical difference between a league and association.

 

[killer]

VJFA seems to contract over 1900-1930 until it turned into the vfa seconds
maybe the subdistrict teams were displaced from there (?)




http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/155556593

 

[Michael Riley]

Just a query. Was there a real or even theoretical difference between a league and association.

I suppose only in terms of who controlled permits.

The VJFA goes back further than 1900..I think I added it to the spreadsheet.... The point is valid though , I probably need to read a bit more on it.

 

[australianfootball]

Many changes occurred in the 1890's, 1930's and early 1990's. Is it a coincidence that these were economic major depressions?

Hi Michael, well done with those excels. One point I'd like to take up is the economic cycle one, ie., major changes in the 1890s, 1930s, and 1990s. The first point is that it's really the 1970s (rather than the 90s) that is at the core of all the major changes to footy in our lifetime, ie., national comp, full-time professionalism, transition to footy from a sport to a business, etc. The late 80s and into the 90s was really the culmination of forces that had a genesis in the late 1970s.

The 1970s was a time of great economic and social flux, as were the 1890s and 1930s. It also fits into a 40-year economic cycle of boom (the previous decade) followed by bust. Whenever there is a bust, radical change is forced upon people and organisations, and footy is no different.

Is there a portent here for the 2010s?

 

[Michael Riley]

Whenever there is a bust, radical change is forced upon people and organisations, and footy is no different.

Yes I have no issue with the point that the 1970's brought a new way of thinking and that the repercussions are what happened in the 1990's. I would say the 1920's and 1930's changes were also a culmination of earlier plans.


In Echuca, the local league collapsed in the 1890's and again in the 1990's, the local intercity team collapsed in the 1930's. Part of the aim of the spreadsheet was to see if this was a local phenomenon or whether there was a pattern across Victoria.


And the future...Clubs worried about mergers should definately read Naomi Klein's book 'Shock Doctrine'...which basically argues that organisations plan for unpopular changes (Such as mergers) and then wait for a crisis and then while people are 'shocked' by the crisis they roll out the changes.

 

[pazza]

Before Werribee joined the VFA in 1964, football down this way consisted of the Werribee and Braybrook Football League.

The clubs in the League were centred around Werribee itself, the farms of Werribee South and the Board Of Works Farm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werribee_Football_Club

In fact the Werribee football club is the combination of four old sides...Werribee South, Irish National Foresters, Services and Metro Farm.

Now a suburb, Truganina won the Werribee Football Association premiership in 1929:

http://www.wyndhamhistory.net.au/items/show/1205

 

[Gibbsy]

Bump. Good thread and would be interested to see if you pursued this Michael Riley

 

[Michael Riley]

I am in Point cook so the information on Werribee is interesting.

Ross McCulloch has done some very interesting work on the other side of town (full articles and lots of photos and stats)
Federal League - http://sfnl.com.au/history/federal/
South East Suburban - http://sfnl.com.au/history/south-east-suburban-football-league/

I have been working on the VFA for the last year, mainly on player data. I have not had a chance to go back and review some of those big questions that I stated above. I am still interested especially on the organisational shift from the 1890's through to the 1930's