Do you worry about the concessions GWS and GC have received?

[Kram]

Yeah they should have been given bugger all and just set up to get flogged every week, that would have worked.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Welcome to the club BACCS. Just a shame you didn't join earlier, now they can just dismiss you as a sook.

GWS have received roughly 30 first round picks in 3 years. For comparison, Carlton had 12 since 2004 and Melbourne have had ~15 since 2007 (but that includes picks they traded in too).

Claims like "Melbourne and Carlton had draft picks but it didn't guarantee success" are ridiculous. The never received anything like what GWS and the Gold Coast have received.

 

[TheSunGod]

I've thought this for a while, but I really fear for the equity of this competition with the ridiculous concessions both of these sides have been given by fat Andy. GC will be a force once the injuries subside.

Our loss to GWS yesterday was not surprising at all, in fact, I'm surprised it took so long for it to happen. From my count, they had well over 12 first round picks out there yesterday (I think it might be 15 exactly), and that's with a few on the sidelines and a few traded for established senior players.

I just find it hard to accept the media gushing over GWS this year, like they have gone from a bunch of spuds to superstars overnight.

There is no other side in the comp (besides GC) that could lose guys like Bruce, Boyd, Hombsch etc and not even bat an eyelid.

Agree with everything you've aid except the bolded bit so I've edited it for you for accuracy purposes...

There is no other side in the comp that could lose guys like Bruce, Boyd, Hombsch etc and not even bat an eyelid.

We have nowhere near the depth of talent GWS have amassed to cover losing gun young players, even if we had a clear injury list (check out the NEAFL results of the respective reserves teams if you don't believe me) and I bet Rocket would give his left nut for guys like Bruce, Boyd and Hombsch right now.

 

[100action]

Gold coast concessions were excessive but bearable, GWS on other hand:

GCS

Underage signings: Taylor Hine, Jack Hutchins, Hayden Jolly, Brandon Matera (early 2nd round), Trent McKenzie (early 2nd round), Tom Nicholls (early 2nd round), Luke Russell, Matt Shaw, Josh Toy (top 5 pick), Maverick Weller.

Year 1: Picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 26, 43

GWS

Underage signings: Bugg (2nd round), Cameron (top 5 pick), Hombsch (2nd round), Shiel (pick 2), Trealor (pick 1), and Wilson

Year 1: Picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 22, 24, 26 Minidraft picks 1, 2

Year 2: Minidraft picks 1, 2

Note: (brackets) = what said player was worth at the time


The difference between the two:

GCS

Picks 11, 13, 15, 43

One top 5 pick and five 2nd rounders in underage recruits

GWS

Picks 22, 24

Three top 5 picks and 2nd rounders in underage recruits

Mini draft picks 1 and 2 in first year

Mini draft picks 1 and 2 in second year


When 3 elite players at the time were signed by GWS as underage recruits (Cameron, Shiel, Treloar) did it not occur in the ******* idiot's head that created the concessions that it would be wise to remove the minidraft selections for at least one year in retrospect?

We live in a free country but democratic processes should be suspended from time to time and ******* idiots like the concession developer should be castrated without trial.

 

[Kram]

Welcome to the club BACCS. Just a shame you didn't join earlier, now they can just dismiss you as a sook.

GWS have received roughly 30 first round picks in 3 years. For comparison, Carlton had 12 since 2004 and Melbourne have had ~15 since 2007 (but that includes picks they traded in too).

Claims like "Melbourne and Carlton had draft picks but it didn't guarantee success" are ridiculous. The never received anything like what GWS and the Gold Coast have received.

How can you compare established AFL teams and what they are given and teams starting up from complete scratch? Stupid comparison.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Nope. Draft picks are hit and miss, look at any years draft and see how any failures there are.

They'll build a strong team of they do it right but they won't be unbeatable or anything.

Some of the draft concessions established clubs have received have been pretty big.

Draft picks are "hit and miss". But when you have 20-30 of them in the top 15, there's gonna be a lot of hits, even if you recruit poorly.

The AFL gave them enough picks to guarantee a flag.

 

[Kummerspeck]

None, but why did they need any when they could simply trade out one of their many first round picks for an established player? Surely you didn't miss that?

Probably because other teams offered trash. I'd say they (West Sydney in particular) did the right thing in taking the kids they wanted and turning the list over as some wanted to leave.

It will take a generation for the rest of the comp to claw back the advantages that have been offered GWS.

No it won't. The Suns and Giants had to build entire clubs, cultures, lists, everything from scratch. That puts them so far behind the other teams it isn't funny.

 

[Tulip]

Picks aren't everything. I'm not worried. I like watching GWS. Play like a proper football club, which is more than can be said for many established teams.

 

[Matt Stevic]

This thread relies on the naive assumption that first round picks always translate to success. Melbourne, Carlton and Richmond would beg to differ.

 

[IronMike]

The whole thing is a joke. Shoving a team in an area that couldn't even give a s**t about AFL. Then they give them the best players of this upcoming generation thinking that the people of west Sydney will have to fall in love with AFL if we give their team the best young players in the country and basically make a joke of any concept of 'equality' that the league had.

I feel sorry most for the Bulldogs and St.Kilda right now who have spent years somehow trying to build a competent young list through years of basically getting fed the scraps of a draft ravaged by the AFLs lovechildren, and we all know that just as they somehow make a list capable of getting a sniff of winning their first ever premiership that the GWS and GC will both roll over them with their Rolls Royce team made up of first round draft picks infront of a crowd of a couple thousand fans with no idea what their watching who were given free tickets and had nothing better to do.

 

[Matt Stevic]

Macrae, Bontempelli, Hrovat, Stringer are scraps? Even those who the 'only first rounders are good' brigade would consider to be scraps, like Johannisen, Jong and Prudden, have been great.

 

[1970crow]

In six years time?

And they'll get first round compo to replace them?

Plus everything they receive every time a player chooses to leave now - you still have to trade for them.

It will take a generation for the rest of the comp to claw back the advantages that have been offered GWS.

It'll take about 3 years. They will get raped by bottom teams offering massive overs and receiving eff all for some players. Their depth will depart this year and next for next to zippo. They may have gotten too much at start-up, but unless players accept unders to stay together, it will even out reasonably quickly.

 

[1970crow]

And what exactly have they created?

A team that just be his team after a few years of pastings.

 

[Kram]

The whole thing is a joke. Shoving a team in an area that couldn't even give a s**t about AFL. Then they give them the best players of this upcoming generation thinking that the people of west Sydney will have to fall in love with AFL if we give their team the best young players in the country and basically make a joke of any concept of 'equality' that the league had.

I feel sorry most for the Bulldogs and St.Kilda right now who have spent years somehow trying to build a competent young list through years of basically getting fed the scraps of a draft ravaged by the AFLs lovechildren, and we all know that just as they somehow make a list capable of getting a sniff of winning their first ever premiership that the GWS and GC will both roll over them with their Rolls Royce team made up of first round draft picks infront of a crowd of a couple thousand fans with no idea what their watching who were given free tickets and had nothing better to do.

Geelong only won flags because of that ridiculous father son rule.

 

[Matt Stevic]

Unless a team deliberately and systematically cheats to win a premiership (see Essendon 93), we can't put any asterisks next to any premiership wins.

GWS will not fall in this category.

 

[Boxhead_31]

None, but why did they need any when they could simply trade out one of their many first round picks for an established player? Surely you didn't miss that?

Would your club ever have the luxury of trading out the number one pick from the year prior?

Maybe that is why they got that many picks because the AFL foresaw many of the young players wanting to leave?
How would the Giants be if they lost the No1 draft pick from the year before for nada? It would take 30 years for them to get a toe hold ala Sydney.

For the overall good of the game I have no issue with them being given what they got when they started up

 

[Balance]

It all depends on who's coaching. If they have a s**t coach like Eade, the quality of players don't matter as much.

 

[nerRADIAN]

The question has to be asked, did GWS tank last year to get better picks? The improvement gap seems a little too big.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

This thread relies on the naive assumption that first round picks always translate to success. Melbourne, Carlton and Richmond would beg to differ.

No it doesn't. When you have 30 first round draft picks, odds are you're gonna get a good team. Even if you * up the majority of your picks, you'll still have ~10 high quality players.

 

[dazbroncos]

Geelong only won flags because of that ridiculous father son rule.

Really?

cool concept. Hawkins, Scarlett and Ablett.

Those 3 won the flags by themselves huh.

And funny, don't remember anyone giving a s**t when we took Scarlett and Ablett. No one else wanted them..

Revisionist history 101…

Go Catters

 

[kaiserchief13]

That's why the salary cap exists. Once these players start to deserve 300k+ per year they won't be able to fit them all in. Maybe they will win a flag or two in a few years but eventually they will be in the same situation as many clubs

 

[Milux]

The question has to be asked, did GWS tank last year to get better picks? The improvement gap seems a little too big.

Nah they were pritty ordinary last year and showed signs if improvement. Its amazing what one preseason can do. Port where the same how quick they turned things around.

 

[The King!]

No i dont

If you want expansion you cant just plonk teams out there with nothing they have to be built somehow.

 

[Cmarsh]

"Do you worry about the concessions GWS and GC have received?"

Funnily enough, no.

 

[Kram]

Really?

cool concept. Hawkins, Scarlett and Ablett.

Those 3 won the flags by themselves huh.

And funny, don't remember anyone giving a s**t when we took Scarlett and Ablett. No one else wanted them..

Revisionist history 101…

Go Catters

It was just a silly response to the ridiculous hyperbole of his post.

But also don't make me laugh in that nobody else would have wanted to draft the son of one of the best players in the history of the game.