Do you worry about the concessions GWS and GC have received?

[popin]

Turn it up, it's your mob that started it.

If you don't want a fire fight, don't light the match.

I feel sorry for the bottom teams these past 5 years who have missed out on a chance to bring in top end talent because of the making the new clubs and will struggle because of it.
This years draft wont help with Swans, Gws having first choice of a few academy kids rated in the top 12 of the draft to choose from. Poor old Demons, Saints, etc who are rebuilding

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Nah that's ok, we don't need to worry about concepts like "trading" with all our 1st round draft picks.... sucker

Well you better start to get to know trading, cause you're not keeping all those first rounders.
Google "salary cap" to get an idea why,
Sucker.

 

[Colonial]

I feel sorry for the bottom teams these past 5 years who have missed out on a chance to bring in top end talent because of the making the new clubs and will struggle because of it.
This years draft wont help with Swans, Gws having first choice of a few academy kids rated in the top 12 of the draft to choose from. Poor old Demons, Saints, etc who are rebuilding

To be fair melbourne had been down the bottom long before we got here

 

[Colonial]

Well you better start to get to know trading, cause you're not keeping all those first rounders.
Google "salary cap" to get an idea why,
Sucker.

I dont know. We seem to be doing alright in the trades we have done so far

 

[TheSunGod]

Well you better start to get to know trading, cause you're not keeping all those first rounders.
Google "salary cap" to get an idea why,
Sucker.

Google "GWS salary cap concessions" and you might find out why they're not too worried.

 

[Scotland]

The mini draft was the dumbest start-up concession by a mile.

 

[plastikman]

I wouldn't be losing sleep over worry about us ..

2011 FREE AGENTS:
Nathan Bock - GONE
Nathan Krakouer - GONE
Michael Rischitelli (playing well)
Campbell Brown - GONE
Jarrod Harbrow (playing ok)
Gary Ablett Jr (star - but will he ever be the same after his shoulder problems)
Josh Fraser - GONE - (but I can see why people were jealous of his signing with us)
Jared Brennan - GONE

2010 Draft Picks:
1 David Swallow (injured - great player - suspect skills)
2 Harley Bennell (lazyiness & alcohol are his vices)
3 Sam Day (not sure he is going to make it)
7 Josh Caddy - GONE
9 Dion Prestia (injured - great player - suspect skills)
10 Daniel Gorringe - (He's yours for a handful of magic beans)
11 Tom Lynch (star)
13 Seb Tape (clock is ticking ..)
39 Jeremy Taylor - GONE
49 Jacob Gilbee - GONE

Pre-season Draft
1 Nathan Ablett - GONE

Rookie Draft
9 Joel Tippett - GONE
82 Jake Crawford - GONE

THE 12 SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD:
Luke Russell - (coming your way at the next trade)
Maverick Weller - GONE
Taylor Hine - GONE
Josh Toy - GONE
Matt Shaw - (ok player)
Piers Flanagan - GONE
Hayden Jolly - GONE
Alex Keath - NEVER WAS
Jack Hutchins - GONE
Tom Nicholls - (exciting player)
Brandon Matera - (Lazy & not fit to polish the great Phill Matera's boot's, let alone Peter's)
Trent McKenzie - (Lazy & sluggish)

 

[TheSunGod]

I wouldn't be losing sleep over worry about us ..

2011 FREE AGENTS:
Nathan Bock - GONE
Nathan Krakouer - GONE
Michael Rischitelli (playing well)
Campbell Brown - GONE
Jarrod Harbrow (playing ok)
Gary Ablett Jr (star - but will he ever be the same after his shoulder problems)
Josh Fraser - GONE - (but I can see why people were jealous of his signing with us)
Jared Brennan - GONE

2010 Draft Picks:
1 David Swallow (injured - great player - suspect skills)
2 Harley Bennell (lazyiness & alcohol are his vices)
3 Sam Day (not sure he is going to make it)
7 Josh Caddy - GONE
9 Dion Prestia (injured - great player - suspect skills)
10 Daniel Gorringe - (He's yours for a handful of magic beans)
11 Tom Lynch (star)
13 Seb Tape (clock is ticking ..)
39 Jeremy Taylor - GONE
49 Jacob Gilbee - GONE

Pre-season Draft
1 Nathan Ablett - GONE

Rookie Draft
9 Joel Tippett - GONE
82 Jake Crawford - GONE

THE 12 SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD:
Luke Russell - (coming your way at the next trade)
Maverick Weller - GONE
Taylor Hine - GONE
Josh Toy - GONE
Matt Shaw - (ok player)
Piers Flanagan - GONE
Hayden Jolly - GONE
Alex Keath - NEVER WAS
Jack Hutchins - GONE
Tom Nicholls - (exciting player)
Brandon Matera - (Lazy & not fit to polish the great Phill Matera's boot's, let alone Peter's)
Trent McKenzie - (Lazy & sluggish)

LOL You forgot Flash...

 

[IanW]

Well you better start to get to know trading, cause you're not keeping all those first rounders.
Google "salary cap" to get an idea why,
Sucker.

You might want a look at the Griffen deal for exactly how you can turn players into salary cap room for their replacement. Just saying.

 

[Scotland]

I wouldn't be losing sleep over worry about us ..

You forgot:

Charlie Dixon - zone selection
Stephen May - zone selection
Jaeger O'Meara - courtesy of mini draft trade
Jack Martin - courtesy of mini draft trade

Couple of handy players there.

 

[Port01]

You forgot:

Jaeger O'Meara - courtesy of mini draft trade
Jack Martin - courtesy of mini draft trade

Couple of handy players there.

Neither of those were concessions unavailable to any other club.

 

[supernova_]

Neither of those were concessions unavailable to any other club.

I think this is important, every club had that opportunity. We just gave up the most for those 2 in particular at that time, so we paid for them accordingly. Not free concessions.

 

[popin]

To be fair Melbourne had been down the bottom long before we got here

So the afl didn't give freo and the Adelaide teams 50 first round draft picks to start up so you have to admit your club has been very very lucky to be able to get all this top end talent to start a club.
If you ask me Gws and the Suns should now have a 2 year ban on the first round draft picks to make it more even for clubs like Melbourne that you beat with a bunch of kids who are a team full of high end draft picks to be able to rebuild with out you taking more top end talent away and also your first round rated academy players as well.

 

[Scotland]

Neither of those were concessions unavailable to any other club.

I think this is important, every club had that opportunity. We just gave up the most for those 2 in particular at that time, so we paid for them accordingly. Not free concessions.

They weren't GC concessions, but they were still expansion concessions that were totally unnecessary.

GWS fans whinge 'you wouldn't trade us any good players so we had to trade them for draft picks' but the mini draft simply wasn't needed in the first place.

Just like GC, GWS had access to 17 year old players pre-draft, and they had a whole heap of early draft picks, and they could sign uncontracted players. They didn't did a special mini draft with picks they couldn't use themselves that were designed to be traded for existing players but didn't have to be. If the mini draft picks could be traded for draft picks it was fairly obvious that the team which finished last and 2nd last would be a good trading partner.

 

[Scotland]

I notice that GC and GWS are able to sign free agents from other teams.

Not bad for teams with expanded salary caps that have been around for half the length of the free agency period...

 

[plastikman]

I notice that GC and GWS are able to sign free agents from other teams.

Not bad for teams with expanded salary caps that have been around for half the length of the free agency period...

Eagles 1st squad was as good as it gets - I remember the lamentation was strong from the Vics - The Gold Coast Suns first squad was infinitely inferior to the following:

Backs Dwayne Lamb Michael Brennan Paul Peos
Half-backs Geoff Miles Ross Glendinning (captain) Mark Zanotti
Centres Phil Narkle Murray Wrensted Peter Davidson
Half-forwards Dean Laidley Laurie Keene Don Holmes
Forwards Steve Malaxos Darren Bennett Andrew Macnish
Ruck Alex Ishchenko John Annear Wally Matera
Interchange Chris Lewis Adrian Barich

 

[TTRRAAVVIISS]

Eagles 1st squad was as good as it gets - I remember the lamentation was strong from the Vics - The Gold Coast Suns first squad was infinitely inferior to the following:

Backs Dwayne Lamb Michael Brennan Paul Peos
Half-backs Geoff Miles Ross Glendinning (captain) Mark Zanotti
Centres Phil Narkle Murray Wrensted Peter Davidson
Half-forwards Dean Laidley Laurie Keene Don Holmes
Forwards Steve Malaxos Darren Bennett Andrew Macnish
Ruck Alex Ishchenko John Annear Wally Matera
Interchange Chris Lewis Adrian Barich

I just dont follow the logic of those saying the concessions were too much. What was the alternative to what the AFL did? Teams are built through the draft and I think its great that the AFL used the draft in that way.

Crows Eagles and Port all had better lists and got to cherry pick from dominant state leagues. Freo to a certain extent did to. Only they traded away picks for duds. Lions got looked after cause of the merger.

Then you have all the teams that got priority picks from 2000 to 2010 or so. No one says hawthorn or pies flags are any less worthy due to priority picks, and if they do they are mugs. Same as teams doing well cause of father son scheme.

Every VFL has had an advantage at some point or another just because their zone had superior youth than their rivals (hence why pies dominated 1900 to 1958 and hawks smashed the 70's to 91).

The way I see it, Vic clubs had from 1986 to 2010 to figure out the best way to exploit the draft. 24 years to build a list and get it right. Most clubs never did. North got Carey and pretty much stayed at the top for 7 years.

These two expansion clubs had one draft to really exploit, picking a team to win a flag in 5 years time (good luck with doing that) or trade off players who wanted to go home for veterans, or players.

Any premiership won by suns or gws is as worthy as any in my view. They still had to mold the team and fend off rival clubs trying to poach the talent like anyone else. Did they really get anymore of an advantage than other expansion clubs or clubs in the VFL with a greater talent pool in their zone than anyone else? Or VFL clubs that raided SANFL and WAFL for better players??? I dont think so

 

[Scotland]

Eagles 1st squad was as good as it gets - I remember the lamentation was strong from the Vics - The Gold Coast Suns first squad was infinitely inferior to the following:

Backs Dwayne Lamb Michael Brennan Paul Peos
Half-backs Geoff Miles Ross Glendinning (captain) Mark Zanotti
Centres Phil Narkle Murray Wrensted Peter Davidson
Half-forwards Dean Laidley Laurie Keene Don Holmes
Forwards Steve Malaxos Darren Bennett Andrew Macnish
Ruck Alex Ishchenko John Annear Wally Matera
Interchange Chris Lewis Adrian Barich

What does this have to do with anything? We entered the comp in 1987, a vastly different landscape to 2011. Only 3 in the above 22 ended up playing in the 1992/4 premiership sides anyway. Our initial list size was limited to 37 when everyone else had 52. Our strong list was also in large part due to the conditions imposed upon the club which were designed to stop us being too strong. Nice one VFL. We had to recruit from the WAFL only, and the Victorian clubs after raiding the WAFL's best talent for years has one last go at recruiting players before we came in. There was a great WA SOO side that beat Victoria in 1986. You know many players from that team joined the Eagles? Four. The end result was that we had to take young players from the WAFL and that ended up turning to gold for us.

The start-up conditions for GWS and GC were mostly fine. The AFL should've staggered their entries so they weren't back to back to limit the effect that pillaging two drafts in a row had on the other clubs, and they should've just left the mini draft idea on some peanut's whiteboard at AFL house. IMO the expansion clubs also should've been kept out of FA until at least the point that their salary caps have been scaled back to standard. I know I'd be miffed if someone like Scott Selwood could just sign for GWS as a FA but any GWS player we wanted we'd need to trade for or hope to get via the ND/PSD.

 

[popin]

At the end of the day the AFL got it wrong with the set up abit, The suns tried to be smart and get all these number one rated kids in the country, Swallow,Bennell, Jaeger, Martin and plus Prestia to put around garry a crazy midfield.
Gws just was smarter again taking it up 2 more levels and stock piled draft picks and i think if they keep all the kids together the afl will be seeing there new favorite pet orange afl team win a flag sooner rather than later to try make afl the number 1 sport in GWS and NSW as it's all about business.

 

[Magma]

should've given us jeremy cameron just cos

 

[TTRRAAVVIISS]

What does this have to do with anything? We entered the comp in 1987, a vastly different landscape to 2011. Only 3 in the above 22 ended up playing in the 1992/4 premiership sides anyway. Our initial list size was limited to 37 when everyone else had 52. Our strong list was also in large part due to the conditions imposed upon the club which were designed to stop us being too strong. Nice one VFL. We had to recruit from the WAFL only, and the Victorian clubs after raiding the WAFL's best talent for years has one last go at recruiting players before we came in. There was a great WA SOO side that beat Victoria in 1986. You know many players from that team joined the Eagles? Four. The end result was that we had to take young players from the WAFL and that ended up turning to gold for us.

The start-up conditions for GWS and GC were mostly fine. The AFL should've staggered their entries so they weren't back to back to limit the effect that pillaging two drafts in a row had on the other clubs, and they should've just left the mini draft idea on some peanut's whiteboard at AFL house. IMO the expansion clubs also should've been kept out of FA until at least the point that their salary caps have been scaled back to standard. I know I'd be miffed if someone like Scott Selwood could just sign for GWS as a FA but any GWS player we wanted we'd need to trade for or hope to get via the ND/PSD.

And yet the eagles still managed 4th in the 2nd year in the comp then made a prelim in 1990 (year 4) and runner up in 91 (year 5). Yep you really got the short end of the stick when it came to talent in WA when you came into the VFL/AFL.

Only thing you can really complain about is not getting home finals.

Crows, Port and Lions were a similar trajectory as WCE as well. Do you think thats a coincidence?

So I'd say the AFL looked at the history and landscape of when Expansion clubs came in and thought "how do we replicate that same early success in 2011 considering SA & WA clubs had a plethora of state league talent to pillage while gws and the suns dont??? Oh i guess we will have to give them draft picks so they can have the same chance to build a premiership list just like crows, eagles, port and lions".

I dont see any difference to the advantages other expansion clubs got than what gws and suns got. All expansion clubs (except for swans and freo) won flags within their first 6 to 9 years (and dont forget teams like port and wce also were dominate teams in the years leading up to the flag).

I dont see how the gws or suns expansion is any different. Neither gws or the suns will win a flag in their 5th year (unlike wce, who could/should have won in 91).

i'm glad both suns and gws are in now. The concessions were fair and the equate to having a strong side in the 6th year, much like other expansion clubs. The draft is uncompromised now (and was last year to i think).

Also I think gws and suns coming in is hugely responsible for the log jam we now see from 2nd to 14th on the ladder, which is a good thing.

The mini draft was a good idea. Melbourne did well out of it with hogan and so to collingwood with elliot. Im sure other clubs did ok to if they bartered fairly.

As for free agency, well i think they should have had the same rights as everybody else to pick up free agents. How else can they build a team with out some seasoned players to help the kids?

I mean lets not forget some of those free agents were luke power, brogan and chad cornes. Hardly at the peak of their powers. No other football club in australia, and I dare say the world, had ever attempted to start from scratch with maybe 35 or more 18 year old kids on the list?? If they weren't able to get an ablett or bock or davis or ward on the list how the hell do you sell the club to their new market by only having a bunch of unknown 18 year olds??

I'm glad the AFL made the right decision and allowed these 2 latest expansion clubs the same chance of early flags as wce, port, crows and lions got.

As for any vic clubs wanting to cry over it you've had from 1986 to figure how to exploit the draft to win a flag. If you didnt do it by 2010, then you weren't likely to figure out how to do it anytime soon. I mean come on tambling over franklin?? Watts over NikNat?? The list goes on.

Stop blaming gws and the suns for the last few compromised drafts and start blaming your teams crap recruiting in the last 10 to 15 years

 

[Colonial]

So the afl didn't give freo and the Adelaide teams 50 first round draft picks to start up so you have to admit your club has been very very lucky to be able to get all this top end talent to start a club.
If you ask me Gws and the Suns should now have a 2 year ban on the first round draft picks to make it more even for clubs like Melbourne that you beat with a bunch of kids who are a team full of high end draft picks to be able to rebuild with out you taking more top end talent away and also your first round rated academy players as well.

 

[grouse mate]

Port Adelaides zone selections for its original squad are on wiki for those that can google. Pretty incredible list of names in there...
Looks like they also had 5 top 10 picks in their first year. How quickly people forget......

Also Freo were the long running joke of the competition with some their early trading blunders. The infamous McLeod one takes the cake. Hiring a recruiting manager who had never seen a game outside WA????, well you get what you deserve.


Seems like the tone of the thread is have a go at SOS for being good at his job whilst other clubs have thrown away what they were given.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

You might want a look at the Griffen deal for exactly how you can turn players into salary cap room for their replacement. Just saying.

Exactly.

My response to someone who said you didn't have to worry about trading with all the first rounders.
I said you did because of a cap.

You have Griffen, because of a
TRADE made with....let's have a drum roll folks...............
A First rounder ( in fact round 1 pick 1 Tom Boyd)

 

[inamedthegiants]

So the afl didn't give freo and the Adelaide teams 50 first round draft picks to start up so you have to admit your club has been very very lucky to be able to get all this top end talent to start a club.
If you ask me Gws and the Suns should now have a 2 year ban on the first round draft picks to make it more even for clubs like Melbourne that you beat with a bunch of kids who are a team full of high end draft picks to be able to rebuild with out you taking more top end talent away and also your first round rated academy players as well.

Hi Eddie.