Oppo Camp Non Eagles Discussion Thread

[HoneyBadger35]

Well this certainly counts as non Eagles discussion, I'll give everybody that.

 

[MIKE85]

So one guy backs up you're view and he's 100% correct? A heap of prominent indigenous people in the community loudly disagree with Noel Pearson. Are they 100% wrong? Have you studied the issue in depth, or do you just read newspaper opinion pieces?

Did I say "this bloke is 100% correct"?? Pretty sure I didn't. Not sure why others would "loudly disagree" with his views though, are they 100% wrong??

 

[BITW]

Unless you've been through the troubles and tribulations that Goodes has, please shut up about his feelings on racism.

White males 18-49 are the biggest privileged race in the world, we don't have to deal with half of what Goodes and others have.

 

[ZergMinion]

Did I say "this bloke is 100% correct"?? Pretty sure I didn't. Not sure why others would "loudly disagree" with his views though, are they 100% wrong??

I believe the term you used was "telling it like it is".

 

[MIKE85]

Is it completely their own fault though?

Who's fault is it??

 

[MIKE85]

I believe the term you used was "telling it like it is".

Are those things he talks about, not currently happening?

 

[The Dodger]

Was he booed prior to the Hawthorn game?

 

[ZergMinion]

Are those things he talks about, not currently happening?

Can't tell. Article is paywalled.

You seem happy to make a lot of noise about these issues, but you want Adam Goodes to pipe down when he's much closer to the issues than you are. Why is that do you think?

 

[swingdog]

 

[MIKE85]

Can't tell. Article is paywalled.

You seem happy to make a lot of noise about these issues, but you want Adam Goodes to pipe down when he's much closer to the issues than you are. Why is that do you think?

I can't see how I'm making a lot of noise. All I originally said was Goodes & some others like to talk about all these sorts of issues, that people have differeing views on, obviously, and some people are sick of hearing from him.

I also like how you are obvioulsy implying some sort of racism on my part because 1, I don't agree with your POV, and 2 because I might not agree with everything Goodes has to say, and Agree with what Noel Pearson said.

 

[truman]

Who's fault is it??

That's a difficult question but to blame it entirely on indigenous populations is the most ridiculous statement/thought and it's downright racist, ignorance is no excuse. Look at the way European settlers dealt with our Aboriginal population. They effectively wiped them out. True that this happened a long time ago, 100+ but remember it took until 1993 for us as a country to acknowledge that indigenous people lived on this continent before settlers!!! Remember too at the the time the Redfern speech wasn't received warmly at the time. So reconciliation efforts really only had any sort of merit after that point but Howard's government set us back greatly but that's another issue.

This is not unique to Australia, when indigenous populations are effectively wiped out and then treated as second class citizens for the next 100 plus years the damage can result in what we see here, high prison rates, poor health outcomes etc. This is evident in the USA and Canada as well. Whose fault is it? European settlers undoubtedly, the generations of the population who didn't acknowledge the atrocities that were inflicted upon indigenous populations, indigenous populations for not being able to find a new way of life in this modern world and people like you telling them too just get over the slaughter of their people and way of life.

Look at NZ, there is not nearly the same amount of conflict because rather than slaughtering the native populations the settlers made treaties with Maori people giving them the rights they deserve right from the bat, rather than here where it took us more than a 100 years to acknowledge Indigenous people as the original people of this land.

 

[MIKE85]

That's a difficult question but to blame it entirely on indigenous populations is the most ridiculous statement/thought and it's downright racist, ignorance is no excuse. Look at the way European settlers dealt with our Aboriginal population. They effectively wiped them out. True that this happened a long time ago, 100+ but remember it took until 1993 for us as a country to acknowledge that indigenous people lived on this continent before settlers!!! Remember too at the the time the Redfern speech wasn't received warmly at the time. So reconciliation efforts really only had any sort of merit after that point but Howard's government set us back greatly but that's another issue.

This is not unique to Australia, when indigenous populations are effectively wiped out and then treated as second class citizens for the next 100 plus years the damage can result in what we see here, high prison rates, poor health outcomes etc. This is evident in the USA and Canada as well. Whose fault is it? European settlers undoubtedly, the generations of the population who didn't acknowledge the atrocities that were inflicted upon indigenous populations, indigenous populations for not being able to find a new way of life in this modern world and people like you telling them too just get over the slaughter of their people and way of life.

Look at NZ, there is not nearly the same amount of conflict because rather than slaughtering the native populations the settlers made treaties with Maori people giving them the rights they deserve right from the bat, rather than here where it took us more than a 100 years to acknowledge Indigenous people as the original people of this land.

Ah I never said they are entirely to blame, but need to take some responsibility. Also I never said they need to "get over it" I said move on, moving on is entirely different, it means acknowledging the past, but still moving forward. I never said they should all forget about it, just stop using it as an excuse for the current situation.

 

[jakethebear]

Look at NZ, there is not nearly the same amount of conflict because rather than slaughtering the native populations the settlers made treaties with Maori people giving them the rights they deserve right from the bat, rather than here where it took us more than a 100 years to acknowledge Indigenous people as the original people of this land.

Not disagreeing with the rest of your comments but the reason the settlers and the Maori's can and could coexist so well is because Maori's also moved there. Maori's also migrated. Not to be racist to aboriginal australians in any way, but there in New Zealand is no them and us mentality, no we deserve more because we were here first.

 

[truman]

Ah I never said they are entirely to blame, but need to take some responsibility. Also I never said they need to "get over it" I said move on, moving on is entirely different, it means acknowledging the past, but still moving forward. I never said they should all forget about it, just stop using it as an excuse for the current situation.

Yep that's much better, kill a way of life but that's ok because they should just move on. The problem is what happened is not something that can be just 'moved on' from, based on various populations in various settings.

The failure to acknowledge that is the reason the situation is what it is.

 

[truman]

Not disagreeing with the rest of your comments but the reason the settlers and the Maori's can and could coexist so well is because Maori's also moved there. Maori's also migrated. Not to be racist to aboriginal australians in any way, but there in New Zealand is no them and us mentality, no we deserve more because we were here first.

Haven't lived in NZ so can't comment on the the deserve more statement. It's true that indigenous people tend to feel a sense of entitlement but I strongly feel that if settlement had been handled better, followed by generations after continuing to reach out this sense of entitlement wouldn't exist.

Also it's true the Maori people moved there from polynesian countries but that was a good 400 years before European settlers arrived.

 

[MIKE85]

Yep that's much better, kill a way of life but that's ok because they should just move on. The problem is what happened is not something that can be just 'moved on' from, based on various populations in various settings.

The failure to acknowledge that is the reason the situation is what it is.

Really?? So young children are being abused by Drunken/drug effected adults in aboriginal communities because of what Settlers did to their people over 200 years ago? Why hasn't that defense worked for the close to 50% of the WA prision population?

If I'm ever in trouble for doing something, that I did, nobody else, I might just blame it on the Abuse my Grandfather received once moving to Australia to escape the war, both physical and racial. Is that not the same reasoning? But I guess unless it's a white person talking about indigenous people, it's not really racism is it.

Ever been called a white c**t? Plenty of racism goes the other way, but we don't hear much about it do we.

 

[jakethebear]

Haven't lived in NZ so can't comment on the the deserve more statement. It's true that indigenous people tend to feel a sense of entitlement but I strongly feel that if settlement had been handled better, followed by generations after continuing to reach out this sense of entitlement wouldn't exist.

Also it's true the Maori people moved there from polynesian countries but that was a good 400 years before European settlers arrived.

I have been to New Zealand. Beautiful country and beautiful people. We did talk about it (the difference in dynamics) with some New Zealanders and they said the theory is we're both here, lets share it, move on. Although there are Maori groups and cultural places, the feel is more "this is new zealand, this is new zealand's culture" vs "this is australia, this is aboriginal culture". I'm not all that educated on it, but that is my experience.

 

[boondy]

Unless you've been through the troubles and tribulations that Goodes has, please shut up about his feelings on racism.

White males 18-49 are the biggest privileged race in the world, we don't have to deal with half of what Goodes and others have.

if u walked a mile in my shoes u would be a mile away

 

[ZergMinion]

if u walked a mile in my shoes u would be a mile away

And I'd have your shoes.

 

[boondy]

And I'd have your shoes.

Damn forgot about that win some lose some

 

[LordHaart]

Really?? So young children are being abused by Drunken/drug effected adults in aboriginal communities because of what Settlers did to their people over 200 years ago? Why hasn't that defense worked for the close to 50% of the WA prision population?

There's a difference between excusing behavior, and making an attempt to understand it so that it can be prevented.

Not sure where you got the bolded from but the Stolen Generations ran up to 1969 (actually, beyond that in some places) so there are plenty of people who had their children taken still alive today.

Also, knowing people who have been actual trauma/PTSD, being told to "move on" is about the most pretentious, patronizing thing someone can say. Please don't fall prey to the trap of thinking that's anything but a euphemism for "I don't really care".

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Well, there's my trade for Rocky in DT

Well I went from ablett to wines to Lewis in SC ! So consider yourself lucky

 

[94_Eagles]

Well I went from ablett to wines to Lewis in SC ! So consider yourself lucky

B'oh

 

[Woobla Stainz]

Plenty of players get booed.

Goodes is a sniping, sooking, umpire looking, front running knob jockey

Deserves every boo he gets

this is the reason for me couldn't care about the off field stuff!!!

 

[Keys]

Well I went from ablett to wines to Lewis in SC ! So consider yourself lucky

If you put a west coast player in your SC I'll run you down in the street