Tool that compares your income shows most Australians are out of touch

[Theseventhhamster]

You'll have to sell the Land Rover....

Make me.

 

[greennick]

To get 99% you need to be earning $300k as a single or $450k as a childless couple, FYI.

Being better off than 99% of the population sounds like you'd be a millionaire but 1% of the population is still 230,000 people.

To be fair, if you are earning 300k a year for any extended period of time, you should be a millionaire (ie, $1m+ in net assets). Otherwise, you're obviously very profligate.

 

[Scotland]

To be fair, if you are earning 300k a year for any extended period of time, you should be a millionaire (ie, $1m+ in net assets). Otherwise, you're obviously very profligate.

I'm thinking more in terms of actually earning $1m a year. I know people that are 'millionaires' that have never earned more than the median wage but just happen to own a house bought in the 60s or 70s.

 

[Pessimistic]

The price of joining and maintaining your familly within the middle class generationally, is utter boredom

 

[greennick]

I'm thinking more in terms of actually earning $1m a year. I know people that are 'millionaires' that have never earned more than the median wage but just happen to own a house bought in the 60s or 70s.

Yeah, it isn't the technical definition, but with inflation and primary residence appreciation reducing the meaning of "millionaire", a salary or spending capability of $1m per year is more in line with what people think when they throw out millionaire.

 

[Pessimistic]

Country should be glad of the teflon property bubble given retirement fund adequacy will probably collapse before it recovers enough to cover shortfalls

 

[greennick]

Country should be glad of the teflon property bubble given retirement fund adequacy will probably collapse before it recovers enough to cover shortfalls

I'm not convinced we're in a property bubble. s**t holes in Karratha being worth $800k and Port Headland $1m is a property bubble. Property bubbles correct rapidly, as we're seeing right now in Karratha and Port Headland. Our property in Australia has been at similar income to value levels for the past 10 years. It has had ups and downs across cities as different places become in vogue, however the overall ratio is relatively constant. All other property bubbles (eg, Japan 1986-91, US 2002-06, etc) experienced sharp and continued increases, followed by sharp decreases. We had years of stagnation, followed by significant increases (though less sharp than US and Japan as our incomes rose significantly as well), and then 10 more years of stagnation.

Property in Australia is less comparable to the "average" US property experts from there like to compare us to, but is more comparable to property in NY, Malibu, San Fran, etc, to which our income to values remain more than competitive. About 80% of our population live in a handful of cities that are all hemmed against the coast, it's nothing like the spread of population in the US.

 

[Chief]

Thought the thread would be about this bloke.

The lack of respect for the PM is astounding.

 

[Chief]

This isn't new, however around budget time as everyone feels ripped off by the outcomes, I think it is interesting to reflect on the fact that generally, most of us think we're further towards the mean than we are.

http://www.watoday.com.au/business/...ralians-are-out-of-touch-20150512-ggznib.html

But it only covers income, not assets.

If you're earning $xk but have a paid off million dollar house, you're better off than someone on $xk who is renting.

 

[Chief]

The price of joining and maintaining your familly within the middle class generationally, is utter boredom

The middle class is just the people who manage capital without owning much of it, or are professionals.

But then again, income and station at work are often not used to determine class - more attitudes towards things like assets, culture, academic achievement.

 

[greennick]

But it only covers income, not assets.

If you're earning $xk but have a paid off million dollar house, you're better off than someone on $xk who is renting.

Well, of course, but it's 2 second tool on a newspaper site. It's not supposed to be an exact science.

 

[Chief]

Well, of course, but it's 2 second tool on a newspaper site. It's not supposed to be an exact science.

Yeah, but it is almost less than useless if it gives a false idea of the thing it is trying to demonstrate. Anyway, no skin off my nose.

 

[Pessimistic]

The middle class is just the people who manage capital without owning much of it, or are professionals.

But then again, income and station at work are often not used to determine class - more attitudes towards things like assets, culture, academic achievement.

Yeah, my point is the upper classes can have fun, without worrying too much about security, due to financial backing

The lower classes dont worry about security, its not likely, so they have fun too

 

[Chief]

Yeah, my point is the upper classes can have fun, without worrying too much about security, due to financial backing

The lower classes dont worry about security, its not likely, so they have fun too

Until old age sets in and they are eating cat food.

But anyway, "boredom" is pretty relative. I see some of my brothers work mates, and friends from school, absolutely pissing their lives away on a roller-coaster of attempts to numb themselves with drink and drugs and having what they think is a good time, but which is really just reckless and risky behaviour, which just leads them hurtling into divorces, unwanted kids, car wrecks, poverty, "sick days", no advancement at work, sackings, kids who follow their example and so on. Then they use drugs and "fun" to numb themselves to the wreck they make of their lives and we go around again.

I could have easily gone that way so I am not really judgmental of these guys but it is physically and mentally damaging and they will usually end up in bad housing dying in pain and poverty before their time, but going down convinced they had a great life in their youth (which seems to extend well into their 40's).

 

[skilts]

Well, of course, but it's 2 second tool on a newspaper site. It's not supposed to be an exact science.

One of the (many) blights on my life.

 

[Pessimistic]

Until old age sets in and they are eating cat food.

But anyway, "boredom" is pretty relative. I see some of my brothers work mates, and friends from school, absolutely pissing their lives away on a roller-coaster of attempts to numb themselves with drink and drugs and having what they think is a good time, but which is really just reckless and risky behaviour, which just leads them hurtling into divorces, unwanted kids, car wrecks, poverty, "sick days", no advancement at work, sackings, kids who follow their example and so on. Then they use drugs and "fun" to numb themselves to the wreck they make of their lives and we go around again.

I could have easily gone that way so I am not really judgmental of these guys but it is physically and mentally damaging and they will usually end up in bad housing dying in pain and poverty before their time, but going down convinced they had a great life in their youth (which seems to extend well into their 40's).

For me its having mortgage interest plus education costs for 2 kids. If we want to see shows, grand finals, holidays above that it all comes out of the equity in the home. Im sure im not the only one, thats with two working parents a touch above the average incomes.

Luckily the equity in the home is rising at maybe $100k per year, but in effect if we buy tickets for a show ar 2 to 300 dollars, we effectvely pay twice that in the long run, so have to be very picky with our 'fun'

 

[Scotland]

For me its having mortgage interest plus education costs for 2 kids. If we want to see shows, grand finals, holidays above that it all comes out of the equity in the home. Im sure im not the only one, thats with two working parents a touch above the average incomes.

Luckily the equity in the home is rising at maybe $100k per year, but in effect if we buy tickets for a show ar 2 to 300 dollars, we effectvely pay twice that in the long run, so have to be very picky with our 'fun'

$100k per year? I wouldn't have thought so...

Do you send your kids to private schools?

 

[Pessimistic]

5% of almost 2 milion is about that. Dont knock it, its the bright spot in my cash negative world

We do have some paid education, but even if we didnt wed be stil negative week to week

As I said, i know plenty are much worse off

 

[Scotland]

5% of almost 2 milion is about that. Dont knock it, its the bright spot in my cash negative world

We do have some paid education, but even if we didnt wed be stil negative week to week

As I said, i know plenty are much worse off

If you live in a $2m house and you can't make ends meet then I think it's kinda obvious what the solution is.

That being said, houses don't just go up 5% a year forever because real estate spruikers say they will.

 

[Pessimistic]

If you live in a $2m house and you can't make ends meet then I think it's kinda obvious what the solution is.

That being said, houses don't just go up 5% a year forever because real estate spruikers say they will.

Well i didnt plan to be like this, and the education expenses wont last forever. Interst rates are currently rock bottom and the growth has been at least 5% while ive been there. The loan is relatively miniscule.

What your suggesting is abandoning the move into generational middle class, which goes back to the theme of the thread

Ill continue to dip into the equity. We coulld make ends meet by adopting an ESSO lifestyle

Thats Eat, Sleep, Sh1t, Overtime


You gen y ers could take that one as a lol type acronym. It actually originates in oilfield slang


anyway Ill bet I'm far from alone in this respect. Id suggest its why lots of people don't feel as lucky as their income might suggest

 

[Scotland]

You're not making sense.

By your own admission you have two average incomes, and a home loan that is 'relatively miniscule' on a $2m property - and you're complaining about being cashflow negative.

WTF do 'gen y ers' have to do with anything?

 

[Bollox]

Well i didnt plan to be like this, and the education expenses wont last forever. Interst rates are currently rock bottom and the growth has been at least 5% while ive been there. The loan is relatively miniscule.
What your suggesting is abandoning the move into generational middle class, which goes back to the theme of the thread

Ill continue to dip into the equity. We coulld make ends meet by adopting an ESSO lifestyle

Thats Eat, Sleep, Sh1t, Overtime

You gen y ers could take that one as a lol type acronym. It actually originates in oilfield slang

anyway Ill bet I'm far from alone in this respect. Id suggest its why lots of people don't feel as lucky as their income might suggest

Hmmmm.
This one i havent heard. Even when working for them i never heard it.
But hey...maybe i was just part of that mindless middle class rather than working class. We would look down upon all the contracted unionised labour despite them earning 2or3 times what we did with their awards, danger money, penalty rates etc plus running separate businesses with their 2 week on 2 week off deals.
It was all "just go and do it you moron"..."kneel when addressing me you mindless pleb"...that kinda thing. It was just the done thing back then.
I never saw it as a class thing though...it worked because everyone knew and accepted their station in life
So i will freely admit i was out of touch...it wasnt till later in life i realised THEY were the middle class and i was the one being exploited.

 

[Pessimistic]

You're not making sense.

By your own admission you have two average incomes, and a home loan that is 'relatively miniscule' on a $2m property - and you're complaining about being cashflow negative.

WTF do 'gen y ers' have to do with anything?

Look, Im not looking for advice or runway question troling. Just quoting an example how the pincer movement of rising costs erode away at even conservative life plans.

Its all to do with whether people feel well off on what sound like substantial incomes. Trouble is australia doesnt exploit the so called lower paid jobs as much as some countries do, so your haircut etc is quite a substatial cost. Actually, I should re phrase that. Its actually a good thing.

Like i said before, I realise many people are worse off, im certainly not potting gen y ers just adding some humour. Gen y ers shoudl remember though that when the retire, they will have had a full lifetime of super contributions, so its not all loaded one way.

But the person suggesting in aveiled i fix my problem by selling up and moving to mitcham can keep his advice for his friends. Mitcham houses will be in the millions in a decade or so anyway, and wages will have barely doubled

 

[Taylor]

Look, Im not looking for advice or runway question troling. Just quoting an example how the pincer movement of rising costs erode away at even conservative life plans.

Its all to do with whether people feel well off on what sound like substantial incomes. Trouble is australia doesnt exploit the so called lower paid jobs as much as some countries do, so your haircut etc is quite a substatial cost.

Like i said before, I realise many people are worse off, im certainly not potting gen y ers just adding some humour. Gen y ers shoudl remember though that when the retire, they will have had a full lifetime of super contributions, so its not all loaded one way.

But the person suggesting in aveiled i fix my problem by selling up and moving to mitcham can keep his advice for his friends. Mitcham houses will be in the millions in a decade or so anyway, and wages will have barely doubled

Wouldn't you have an asset valued about the same in that decade or so but still have spent the time between with a cool million in the hand and retired?

Minus the debt you might owe on the $2m place, you might be able to get three places and spend your early retirement managing property.

 

[Pessimistic]

Wouldn't you have an asset valued about the same in that decade or so but still have spent the time between with a cool million in the hand and retired?

Minus the debt you might owe on the $2m place, you might be able to get three places and spend your early retirement managing property.

I could, but I dont want to. We're so busy we neglect the maintenence on our place. You cant be slack with rental property investments. Also have been exposed to tradesmen enough to see any gains could easily be eroded unless you are hot on that stuff. Its not for me. Anyway, if you are so #concerned for me, no point disrupting the kids during vce run up, that would render much of the investment up to now pointless. Will review after that

Could switch investment to more properties at retirement time. If the plan is for low maintenence ie aparments with good rental growth rather than capital growth, a few years of negative gearing wont make much difference, compared to gains on existing blue chip property with no capital gains