Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Thread X

[Eleven 38]

Footballers have been booed for over a hundred years, it happens, and it'll happen for the next hundred years, and Adam Goodies will not be the last indigenous player to get booed.

 

[BrewSmackerVeiny]

Yeah, he sooks. But Jack Riewoldt, who has turned whingeing into an artform, doesn't get booed as soon as he touches the ball. Lindsay Thomas, who has just been cast in the next friggin' Dardennes brothers film on merit of his acting talent, doesn't get booed off the cuff.

And he's Indigenous, people just don't like Goodes, nothing more to it.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

And he's Indigenous, people just don't like Goodes, nothing more to it.

And Thomas didn't call out the Collingwood girl.

 

[Beerfish]

And Thomas didn't call out the Collingwood girl.

So what?

 

[tesla1962]

This is amusing from Dale Thomas. He must have been asleep during 2013 and 2014 and missed seeing how the media treated Hird.

DALE Thomas says the media had been "almost calling for some form of blood to be spilled" in the weeks leading up to Mick Malthouse's sacking at Carlton.

Thomas, whose close relationship with Malthouse stems back to their days at Collingwood, claimed the media was "all out in attack" to have Malthouse sacked.

The veteran coach was dismissed by Carlton on Tuesday after an inflammatory radio interview led to president Mark LoGiudice describing a loss of trust between Malthouse and the Blues.

Thomas told Nova FM radio on Wednesday that he owed his career to Malthouse and regretted that the 61-year-old wouldn't coach out the season.

He also said he respected the way Malthouse had carried himself as the scrutiny increased.

"Probably the biggest one was the media in the end, with how there's never been (so much) scrutiny on an individual, I don't believe, to almost calling for some form of blood to be spilled in the sense they wanted him gone," Thomas said.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-27/dale-thomas-says-the-media-wanted-blood-in-the-malthouse-saga

 

[Andronicus]

It's an unfortunate cocktail that will keep being exploited until Goodes retires,

Being that i grew up near subi, I'll boo him if i see him in the street if I have to.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

So what?

Well, this all seems to have emerged since that. I just find it rather extraordinary and genuinely unusual - I don't subscribe to the idea that it's all racist but I've had people tell me, po-faced that Goodes was a weak prick for singling out the girl and it fuels a lot of bile.

 

[Beerfish]

Well, this all seems to have emerged since that. I just find it rather extraordinary and genuinely unusual - I don't subscribe to the idea that it's all racist but I've had people tell me, po-faced that Goodes was a weak prick for singling out the girl and it fuels a lot of bile.

Buddy singled out someone making a racist comment in the crowd and so did Cyril if memory serves me correctly and I'm pretty sure there are a couple of others I'm forgetting (Lumumba?). They don't get booed off the cuff. Anyone seriously suggesting that the supporters of 17 other clubs have rallied to boo this man forever more in support of a Collingwood supporting racist because she was a girl really is incredibly naive and exactly the kind of malleable punter the media and AFL love.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

As I said, I don't subscribe to that at all. I think the answer lies in something of a perfect storm of all these elements.

 

[Doss]

As is always the case, the middle ground holds the truth.

I understand why people who genuinely have no racist intent, nor any problem with racism being called out when it's genuinely there, take umbrage when it's implied it's predominantly racism at its base, as Phone seemed to be doing. Some people just genuinely don't like the guy (onfield; how the * can anyone who doesn't know him make a judgement on his off field personality, as an aside?) and that has nothing to do with him being Aboriginal. Hell, I'm in that category myself- I genuinely don't like the way he plays and his sooking and staging on the field. It is what it is and it has zero ulterior, darker (no pun intended) motive behind it.

I also cannot understand how people can claim that none of it has any racist intent, however, given that it started off in earnest after an event that involved racism rather heavily. Some people might have disliked Goodes before that incident, but it spread like wildfire afterwards when, for all intents and purposes, he did a good thing by reminding everyone that ingrained racism is still a little more present in between the cracks than what we might like to believe.

I'll put it this way, the number of 'ape' comments I come across in any Sydney gameday thread on this site these days is pretty damn disappointing. And just to emphasise- that doesn't mean I think any of you are by extension racist. But there are some elsewhere around the traps who blatantly are and the fact this exploded after an incident centering around racism is very unfortunate, and for some perhaps, revealing.

As Lord Nicholson said, it's a perfect storm.

 

[Beerfish]

As I said, I don't subscribe to that at all. I think the answer lies in something of a perfect storm of all these elements.

I didn't say you were subscribing to that. Some seem to be though.

 

[threeleggedgoat]

I just want to live in a world where I can call someone a monkey purely because of their uncanny f*****g resemblance to a monkey and not be hissed and spat at due to the presumption that it's coming from a place of racism, when it's not.

Is that really too much to ask for?

Go on then, pelt your metaphorical rotting fruit and vegetables at me.

 

[vast]

I just want to live in a world where I can call someone a monkey purely because of their uncanny f*****g resemblance to a monkey and not be hissed and spat at due to the presumption that it's coming from a place of racism, when it's not.

Is that really too much to ask for?

Go on then, pelt your metaphorical rotting fruit and vegetables at me.

Lol yes ur the victim in that scenario.

 

[threeleggedgoat]

I'm glad someone agrees with me, maybe there is some sanity in the world after all!

 

[Doss]

It's all about historical context, though. It was used as a demeaning, discriminating term against dark-skinned people, often with the added implication of being a lesser being; "you're not even human, you look more like a monkey".

I know I'm not reinventing any wheel in pointing that out, but historical precedent and context has importance.

 

[ant555]

Two things on current topics.
Adam Goodes, lot of talk on why he gets booed . Personally i respect he is a great player but he loses some of my respect
because he plays for free kicks and whinges to the umpires when he does not get them and he is prone to be a bit of a sniper at times.
Anyone booing him over his views and events surround racism are simply showing they do not get it.
The Thirteen year old girls or Eddies comments
needed to be highlighted for what they where and used as an example of what is not acceptable. They may be water off a ducks back for us white folk
but they are offensive to others who have had to live their lives being seen as second class people by a percentage of the population.
We have not had to live with being treated this way because of race or skin colour.
If you do not get it then you need a rethink.
I suspect the reason is a mixture of both the above mentioned issues.

Now Carlton. Will not matter who they appoint as their list is shot. Most likely scenario, someone appointed then sacked in 3 years as they still are not much chop !!!!! The best time to coach them will be in 4 to 5 years time if they concentrate on building through the draft and get it right.

 

[ant555]

I'm glad someone agrees with me, maybe there is some sanity in the world after all!

I agree, i hate having to think about using a light harted or even serious insult for that matter. It would be great if we all viewed each other like
as equal people so that we can call the tossers what ever we wanted.
Sadly history and a percentage of the current population has taken that right away from us. Having a couple of family members married to Aboriginal folk
has given me an insight into how they feel and how it makes them angry and hurt as they feel like second class people when it comes up.

Would be a great world if all races where seen as equal and you could call someone something because they where simply a dickhead.

 

[efcboy]

I agree, i hate having to think about using a light harted or even serious insult for that matter. It would be great if we all viewed each other like
as equal people so that we can call the tossers what ever we wanted.
Sadly history and a percentage of the current population has taken that right away from us. Having a couple of family members married to Aboriginal folk
has given me an insight into how they feel and how it makes them angry and hurt as they feel like second class people when it comes up.

Would be a great world if all races where seen as equal and you could call someone something because they where simply a dickhead.

Spot on. I have friends of many cultures and you actually know when you're a real friend when you can hang s**t on them without worrying that it will come across as something else.

I don't like Goodes because of his drugs comments and his staging. I don't like Malthouse either because he is a stubborn rude prick. I'm glad Malthouse is gone. Despite not liking Goodes I was however pleased to see him return to form to prove his doubters who were saying he was gone wrong. I respect Goodes ability and it's a shame in his latter years he has ruined his reputation with regular staging. I think there is still time for him to right his wrongs. If he went through the rest of the season without doing it fans would move on.

 

[Phone]

Adam Goodes is like a boy that cries wolf. It's not his Color, its not his indigenous background its his persona, it's his body language, it's his sooking, it's his staging, it's him trying to use his heritage to maintain his presence in the media. He should stick to playing footy and stop thinking that the world is against him, every player has been booed at some stage, even Juddy, never heard him cry about it. He should have a teaspoon of concrete and harden up.

I haven't heard Goodes cry about it either.

 

[Phone]

Meanwhile, this talk about about the media gagging for the downfall of Malthouse continues to be bemusing. Carlton had gone backwards during his tenure and were putting in pathetic performances, and he was out of contract. He was not going to be resigned, and the media had nothing to do with that. And he got himself sacked because he himself forced their hand through his own comments made willingly via the media, and he literally got sacked a couple of hours after the media performance that sealed his fate, faster than the media had an opportunity to release the hounds. The modern landscape means you can complain about the AFL media over any issue you want and get away with it, and obviously Thomas is going to blame the media and not his fans/board, but honestly, there'll be far greater media campaigns in this season. On a whole, the media seemed hesitant to say he should be sacked, until he forced their hands like he forced Carlton's hands. "Keep him until the end of the season" and what not.

 

[efcboy]

Yeah Malthouse got off lightly. His coaching and recruiting was pathetic and fans/media would have been calling for the sacking of a lesser coach far earlier and louder. Malthouse basically forced the board to sack him so that he got his money from not quitting.

 

[BrunoV]

Yeah Malthouse got off lightly. His coaching and recruiting was pathetic and fans/media would have been calling for the sacking of a lesser coach far earlier and louder. Malthouse basically forced the board to sack him so that he got his money from not quitting.

Why should Malthouse walk away? Why not make the board who are white anting and undermining you less than 2 years after they hired you (remember it's not like it has just started) sack you?

The hierarchy at Carlton had to call Gibbs and Murphy in to discuss comments the President made about the tradeability of everyone on their list and the announcement of a rebuild following a bad loss in round 2 against West Coast (who also messed up GWS and basically everyone else they have played at Subi). There was a huge overreaction to the loss the perceptions following which would have been a lot different if their better and younger players were available to play.

The players have been asked on numerous occasions whether the position taken by the club has affected them. They always say 'no' but they have to because the alternative is essentially surrender. Gibbs did not have to tell anyone about that meeting he and Murphy had and he did not sound as though he was particularly happy about the situation when talking about it. That he has volunteered the acknowledgement by those at Carlton that they went too far (why else do you call in the two guys you can least afford to lose, and what about the others that weren't there?) says much more than scripted answers to questions they can never truthfully answer.

It is naive in the extreme to think that you can undermine a coaches authority and the players' confidence, by feeding constant speculation about the coach and announcing a rebuild 2 weeks into the season and expect that it will not rip the heart out of your team. Think about what the club is really saying 'we don't think the players are much good so we are going to play some kids and trade our way into the draft as much as possible in order to replace the players we have that we don't rate'.

As for the trading, the point about Betts was not that Adelaide had signed him 18 months before his contact ended or, even, that there was anything untoward (though we can rest assured that the AFL will find that there was no breach of the rules, rules which relate to the signing of contracts). It was simply that Adelaide had already approached Betts about the transfer and that they had planned accordingly (there would be hundreds of similar inquiries made by clubs of player managers a year). Clubs lose players, it happens, Thomas is a very good player who busted his shoulder in round 1 this year.

The rest of the mature aged players brought in have either been good and/or they are still young and not really any different to the 18 year olds that everyone would prefer that they are playing at this stage (except insofar as they as a somewhat known quantity they are generally less interesting than the unknown).

There is some understanding of how bad Carlton's list is but I don't think the extent of it is fully appreciated. They turned over half of the list in the space of 12 months (October/November 2013 to 2014). You can't replace that with 18 year olds in the ordinary course of things (look how long it took GC and GWS to come good with a lists of first round quality 18 year olds).

The reality is that Malthouse was cooked last year when whichever back room power broker decided that he needed to be removed. Carlton should have just had the balls to sack him last year and start this year fresh, giving them some chance of having a meaningful season (even it was just a rebuild). What were they going to find out during the course of the year? That Malthouse suddenly had dementia and could no longer coach? A smart administration would never have let it come to this and would have been self-aware enough to start the rebuild mid last year and either re-signed the coach to do it or terminated the relationship at the end of last year.

The only credit I would give Carlton is that the strategy to undermine Malthouse to force the issue on the departure was reasonably well orchestrated though they probably wish that they did not ruin a whole season in doing it. For Carlton's administration 1/2 ain't that bad.

 

[Pweter]

On 360 last night they had Michael Long and Martin Flannagan who authored Long's book The Short Long Book.

Flannagan said it best I reckon where he said that not everyone that is booing Goodes is racist, it's a ridiculous notion, but it provides a cover for those that are racist and gives them that outlet during a game when so many other people are booing.

 

[BrunoV]

On 360 last night they had Michael Long and Martin Flannagan who authored Long's book The Short Long Book.

Flannagan said it best I reckon where he said that not everyone that is booing Goodes is racist, it's a ridiculous notion, but it provides a cover for those that are racist and gives them that outlet during a game when so many other people are booing.

So why would you be part of it?

 

[Pweter]

So why would you be part of it?

As in me? I've never been to a Sydney game, let alone booed a single player at any game I've been to. If I've taken exception with an opposition player I tend to call them weak, a coward, an actor, a sniper etc (that counts at local level too). I've never bagged a player simply because they are skillful and tearing us a new one.

If your question is generic as in "why would people boo anyone?", I agree entirely.