Play Nice Adam Goodes

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Xtreme said:
You were busting your gut to mention those players, and no I only have a shrine to Jason Dunstall in one of my bedroom's :thumbsu:

I used to respect Goodes, I have not respected him for several years now and I'll never cheer him him again.



For someone that is being held up on a pedestal by so many, it's quite amusing that flipping the bird doesn't phase many people. The middle finger is just as offensive as someone uttering a racial slur. Adam Goodes should have known better than to flip off football fans, regardless of the fact they were the opposition.

It may not be a reason to boo him as you put it, but it adds fuel to the fire of the burning hatred towards him.
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"burning hatred" - jesus I'd better let you go before he supersedes Hitler!
 
Crankyhawk said:
Did you not read the earlier part of my post? And the hard done by is not getting the other side suspended (because you don't play them the next week) oh wait - no Sydney did that to Buddy...

Show me where one of your players got suspended for "attempting to strike"
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WTF has Buddy got anything to do with anyone punching anyone else in the nuts?? Happy to continue this tomorrow when you sober up if you like.

And yeah...don't attempt to strike with any serious intent and you won't be done for attempting to strike. It's not rocket science.
 

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Nankervis brothers said:
Good article here on the residual racism and class politics that may drive Hawthorns fans (in particular) to boo Goodes:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-29/alomes-why-hawthorn-supporters-boo-adam-goodes/6507282
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Biggest load of shite I've read in a long time. Is this bloke serious?

Let's bring two unmentionables into footy: class and politics. Hawthorn's supporter base has many fans from the upper middle classes, good boys and girls from private schools and with good bank accounts. Sometimes, with class goes conservatism. They may not like Goodes' political radicalism on Indigenous issues and they may feel fortified by the idea that politics should be kept out of football.

In other words, the racism is political and perhaps class-based as well.​
 
Lester Burnham said:
Biggest load of shite I've read in a long time. Is this bloke serious?

Let's bring two unmentionables into footy: class and politics. Hawthorn's supporter base has many fans from the upper middle classes, good boys and girls from private schools and with good bank accounts. Sometimes, with class goes conservatism. They may not like Goodes' political radicalism on Indigenous issues and they may feel fortified by the idea that politics should be kept out of football.

In other words, the racism is political and perhaps class-based as well.​
Click to expand...
Yes, that's his argument. Kudos.

EDIT: Mmm, to give a very brief summary of the article...
The booing started after Goodes had the ‘bad taste’ to call out a teen for calling him an ape. It then intensified after he wrote a ‘divisive’ article (while Australian of the year, no less!) about the racism at the base of Australian colonial history. The author argues that the hatred Hawthorn fans have for Goodes is connected to these things, as it comes into being with these incidents. He thus claims it's not to do with staging, etc, as that would mean many players would be booed in the same way. Yet they are not. And he wonders if it’s a political/class prejudice, due to Goodes politics being at odds with the Hawthorn supporter base, which is historically right/conservative leaning. So yeah, that is his argument. What’s good about the article is seeing someone actually thinking about sporting events and our reaction to them as a political entity, rather pretending these things exist in a separate bubble. Good for him.
 
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it's disgusting that eddie mcguire still has something to do with the afl. he has made multiple racist comments and yet the afl administration are okay with it. he has to go, what he has said in the past and most recently is absolutely disgusting and damaging the afl brand. the afl administration and his best mate gillon mclachlan need to get rid of him from the afl and educate him so he understands the indigenous culture or has enough knowledge to respect it. he is a very lucky person to still be a head of an afl club and it is disgusting the mentality that he has and anyone that supports him. shame on u eddie mcgurie. if he was in charge of an american sporting team then he would have next to no chance of having any association with that sport anymore. the afl can make a stance here and if they don't then we truly know what their mentality is like.
 
Nankervis brothers said:
Yes, that's his argument. Kudos.

EDIT: Mmm, to give a very brief summary of the article...
The booing started after Goodes had the ‘bad taste’ to call out a teen for calling him an ape. It then intensified after he wrote a ‘divisive’ article (while Australian of the year, no less!) about the racism at the base of Australian colonial history. The author argues that the hatred Hawthorn fans have for Goodes is connected to these things, as it comes into being with these incidents. He thus claims it's not to do with staging, etc, as that would mean many players would be booed in the same way. Yet they are not. And he wonders if it’s a political/class prejudice, due to Goodes politics being at odds with the Hawthorn supporter base, which is historically right/conservative leaning. So yeah, that is his argument. What’s good about the article is seeing someone actually thinking about sporting events and our reaction to them as a political entity, rather pretending these things exist in a separate bubble. Good for him.
Click to expand...

Wow..that was a very brief summation. It will save me reading the whole article.
Tell me then, the Author must also have mentioned the vitriol that Melbourne supporters spew forth at Goodes given their similar political leanings and class standing??. That would've substantiated his claim.
 
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Lurkalot said:
Wow..that was a very brief summation. It will save me reading the whole article.
Tell me then, the Author must also have mentioned the vitriol that Melbourne supporters spew forth at Goodes given their similar political leanings and class standing??. That would've substantiated his claim.
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Yes, like I said, a brief summation, and the article is linked above if you feel like reading it. And no, don't believe he mentions Melbourne, though also not sure the anger of the Melbourne supporter base toward Goode's has reached such dizzying proportions.
 
Shiv said:
it's disgusting that eddie mcguire still has something to do with the afl. he has made multiple racist comments and yet the afl administration are okay with it. he has to go, what he has said in the past and most recently is absolutely disgusting and damaging the afl brand. the afl administration and his best mate gillon mclachlan need to get rid of him from the afl and educate him so he understands the indigenous culture or has enough knowledge to respect it. he is a very lucky person to still be a head of an afl club and it is disgusting the mentality that he has and anyone that supports him. shame on u eddie mcgurie. if he was in charge of an american sporting team then he would have next to no chance of having any association with that sport anymore. the afl can make a stance here and if they don't then we truly know what their mentality is like.
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what did Eddie say that warrants his dismissall from the game??
 

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Eddie Betts : kicks GOTY contender against undefeated Freo in tight contest. Could do an emotionally charged indigenous themed celebration. Chooses to celebrate simply, arms out to the crowd. "Love me, Adelaideans! I do this for you!"

Adam Goodes : kicks a straight forward set shot goal, to go even further in front against a rabble outfit. Chooses to celebrate as if he'd kicked GOTY during a tight contest against an undefeated powerhouse. "I am Adam! I do this for me!"

One is a joy to watch. The other is an act of floggery.
 
The aura of self-righteousness that emanates directly from Goodes' behind is more overwhelming than any possible stench that arises from the same origin after the heftiest of late night kebabs. Personally, I think he is a drop kick of the highest order.

His incessant whining is only detrimental to his cause, as is the case for most ridiculously outspoken individuals on a given issue. Any time someone complains about every single minor detail, we become desensitised to their moaning, until it reaches the extent whereby they could be raising a point of genuine concern, but the majority will brush it off as more typical bleating. Quality, not quantity, Adam.
 
On the topic of whether or not the "boos" and criticism are racist:

Is the incited anger entirely a racial issue? No, of course not.
Is race partly to blame? No doubt.

In entirely unscientific terms, I will direct you to the "Floginess Threshold"; the degree of which an individual must act like a flog before being condemned for said actions. I will assert that this "Floginess Threshold" is lower for particular people than others, with race being one such example. It could be broken down like this:
  • Floginess Threshold for typical "Anglo" player: 70 out of 100
  • Floginess Threshold for typical Indigenous player*: 60 out of 100
*if the individual making this judgement is subject to racial prejudices

So, let us look at someone like Crowley, who could be rated around a 65 in the eyes of most people. He has generally not passed the threshold, so is only considered a flog by a few outliers.
Conversely, let us also say that Goodes is rated a 65 in the eyes of most people. Whilst he is rated the same as Crowley on raw numbers, because he is judged on a different scale, a greater proportion of people will condemn him for being a flog than they do for Crowley, despite having the same raw value.

The point is, that no one is certainly racist for speaking out against Goodes, as he certainly has enough of a track record in the way he carries himself on and off the field, such that being subjected to such vilification is warranted. However, there will certainly be some (not all) people who will criticise Goodes, yet fail to equally discredit another player, despite being equally (or perhaps even more) worthy of it than Adam. These individuals will have been affected by racial undertones, which is, more or less, a basic and well understood function of human psychology.

Ramblings of a madman.
 
Strahany said:
On the topic of whether or not the "boos" and criticism are racist:

Is the incited anger entirely a racial issue? No, of course not.
Is race partly to blame? No doubt.

In entirely unscientific terms, I will direct you to the "Floginess Threshold"; the degree of which an individual must act like a flog before being condemned for said actions. I will assert that this "Floginess Threshold" is lower for particular people than others, with race being one such example. It could be broken down like this:
  • Floginess Threshold for typical "Anglo" player: 70 out of 100
  • Floginess Threshold for typical Indigenous player*: 60 out of 100
*if the individual making this judgement is subject to racial prejudices

So, let us look at someone like Crowley, who could be rated around a 65 in the eyes of most people. He has generally not passed the threshold, so is only considered a flog by a few outliers.
Conversely, let us also say that Goodes is rated a 65 in the eyes of most people. Whilst he is rated the same as Crowley on raw numbers, because he is judged on a different scale, a greater proportion of people will condemn him for being a flog than they do for Crowley, despite having the same raw value.

The point is, that no one is certainly racist for speaking out against Goodes, as he certainly has enough of a track record in the way he carries himself on and off the field, such that being subjected to such vilification is warranted. However, there will certainly be some (not all) people who will criticise Goodes, yet fail to equally discredit another player, despite being equally (or perhaps even more) worthy of it than Adam. These individuals will have been affected by racial undertones, which is, more or less, a basic and well understood function of human psychology.

Ramblings of a madman.
Click to expand...
 
Its late. I'm bored. I figure this thread can't get any more feral so i'm going to post something controversial I've been wondering:

Imagine its an alternate universe and Adam Goodes was raised by his german father instead of his aboriginal mother. In a single parent household the odds are what? 50/50 that might of been the case? Not improbable.

Imagine his german father was fiercely patriotic. Now imagine imaginary Adam Goodes goes out to play the week after indigenous round, one in which an indigenous player has acted out a war dance at the opposition crowd and its deemed agreeable. His dad is ill with cancer and dying. He kicks a goal and runs to the boundary where he's noted there is a group opposition supporters, some of them are Jewish- maybe he noticed maybe he didn't.

He goes right up to them, lifts his shirt revealing a swasti.. no, too much.. a tattoo of the German flag over his heart and thumps it aggressively. The crowd goes wild, twitter explodes, its the worst thing since the holoc.. nope, since whatever. After the match he's asked what was going on and he responds "Oh, you know, just representing my culture, my father is a proud german man and he's ill. I know it would really mean something to him to see me do that'' Boundary rider presses "But wasn't it offensive to those supporters or jewish people you aimed it at?" "Well, i'm disappointed in them for feeling that way. It really wasn't about them, its between me and my father. It would of been pretty silly if I stuck it up my own supporters wouldn't it. People really just need to take a chill pill, whats the big deal?"

And that my friends is what I like to call "Goodes-winning" an argument. Well, almost, since I'm not about to mention Hitl.. you know who. Maybe its a false equivalency to compare cultures outside of supposed context but so far as false equivalencies go its as convincing as most of the arguments i've seen on here in the last 24 hours.

What is the AFL supposed to do from here? If they say Adam shouldn't of directed his dance at the Carlton supporters they'll be accused of censoring Indigenous culture and they'll be labelled racist, or intolerant. If they allow every player in the AFL to choose to stick it up the crowd as self-expression games are going to start resembling European soccer riots in short order. If they say they support Adam 100% but the non-indiginous players will still be fined for flipping birds or yelling back at rowdy supporters then we have 2 sets of rules and thats not equitable. I'm fascinated to see how it plays out, to me its a check mate move from Goodsey almost perfectly contrived to create division. And as long as we're all being all disappointed in each other, I'm pretty disappointed in him for not using his position just a little more wisely. Do we want to argue for the rest of eternity about who needs to respect who or can we just show each other a bit of mutual respect and move on?
 
Strahany said:
On the topic of whether or not the "boos" and criticism are racist:

Is the incited anger entirely a racial issue? No, of course not.
Is race partly to blame? No doubt.

In entirely unscientific terms, I will direct you to the "Floginess Threshold"; the degree of which an individual must act like a flog before being condemned for said actions. I will assert that this "Floginess Threshold" is lower for particular people than others, with race being one such example. It could be broken down like this:
  • Floginess Threshold for typical "Anglo" player: 70 out of 100
  • Floginess Threshold for typical Indigenous player*: 60 out of 100
*if the individual making this judgement is subject to racial prejudices

So, let us look at someone like Crowley, who could be rated around a 65 in the eyes of most people. He has generally not passed the threshold, so is only considered a flog by a few outliers.
Conversely, let us also say that Goodes is rated a 65 in the eyes of most people. Whilst he is rated the same as Crowley on raw numbers, because he is judged on a different scale, a greater proportion of people will condemn him for being a flog than they do for Crowley, despite having the same raw value.

The point is, that no one is certainly racist for speaking out against Goodes, as he certainly has enough of a track record in the way he carries himself on and off the field, such that being subjected to such vilification is warranted. However, there will certainly be some (not all) people who will criticise Goodes, yet fail to equally discredit another player, despite being equally (or perhaps even more) worthy of it than Adam. These individuals will have been affected by racial undertones, which is, more or less, a basic and well understood function of human psychology.

Ramblings of a racist.
Click to expand...
corrected
 
There is a question that I would like to ask Goodes' defenders and/or apologists. Forgive me if it has been asked and answered somewhere in this lengthy thread and I have somehow missed it. How do you reconcile Goodes contradiction and lie in his post-game interviews? He clearly stated at first that his "war dance" was NOT directed towards Carlton supporters at all. That it was just an expression of his indigenous heritage and NOT at all intended to stick it towards Carlton supporters, with whom, he would be disappointed if they were so insensitive as to take it as such. He then later stated that the "war dance" would have made no sense to do it towards Sydney's cheer section because after all it is a "war dance" that would/should be directed towards the opposition and their fans and that he had a separate dance/celebration PLANNED for Sydney supporters. Hmmmm. Please reconcile that for me. I am an American and unfortunately have never been to Australia and, as far as I know, have never met anyone of Australian indigenous heritage. I would also like to know if by even bringing this up, if I am one of those redneck racists that have been mentioned so often in this thread because of my dislike for Goodes. I haven't known this about myself in my almost fifty years of life, that I could be so vehemently racist against a group of people that I have never interacted with. If that is the case then maybe my racism extends towards all Aussies because I dislike Stevie J even more than Goodes, although to Adam's credit, he has at least drawn even with Stevie in the last week or so.
 
Xtreme said:
People are obviously fed up with him, why don't you go outside the ground and conduct a poll and ask people why, if you are so concerned.
I have disliked Goodes since the late 2000's (08 would be the turning point - like I said earlier today I loved him and seeing Sydney win the flag in 2005 and the battle with WCE in 2006). I grew tired of the sniping and staging for free kicks, becoming an umpires pet in that time as well.

Also as noted people boo players to put them off their game. Clearly it's working with Goodes as he's all riled up about the hate.

I am certainly not going to cheer for a player that doesn't play the game in the spirit it should be played.
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You must've missed the times where Goodes has said the booing doesn't effect his game , but is off putting for his family and friends.
 
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