Research What happened to Australian Football in Qld, NSW and NZ in the early 20th century

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Interesting thread, I knew the early forms of Aussie Rules had a fairly strong following up here in QLD back in the day.
I have heard stories that it was voted in at school level (?) between Rugby and Victorian Rules as to which game will be adopted. Rugby won by 1 vote.
Also didn't help that the game was being labelled Victorian Rules and well as you can imagine that didn't go down well with the northern colonies.
 
SizeMatters said:
Interesting thread, I knew the early forms of Aussie Rules had a fairly strong following up here in QLD back in the day.
I have heard stories that it was voted in at school level (?) between Rugby and Victorian Rules as to which game will be adopted. Rugby won by 1 vote.
Also didn't help that the game was being labelled Victorian Rules and well as you can imagine that didn't go down well with the northern colonies.
Click to expand...

I have heard about the one vote thing, not sure whether it is true though, it always amuses me about the name Victorian Rules, because Rugby is named after a English School.

Lots of reasons why the game did not become the main code in QLD, but essentially MO is that the state has been more strongly tied economically and culturally to NSW and the population shift north from Victoria to work in the late 1800's was not sustained.

WA was a different kettle of fish, the population shift from Victoria was huge and sustained, early WA premiers were born in Ballarat, as an example, the Burley bros (burley footballs) moved from Victoria, many small farming towns in WA can trace there history or large parts of it to Victorians or South Australians moving and settling there, around 35% of men signing up from Kalgoorlie for WW1 stated their birthplace as Victoria or Broken Hill etc.
 
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Bit more about why football failed in NZ.

The mining era coincided not just with the emergence of a football club structure in Victoria but also with a recognisable divergence in England between rugby and association football. It may be easy to exaggerate the significance of the Football Association (FA), soccer’s controlling and loosely structured body. As Collins notes, most clubs in the 1860s still played rugby derivatives and the FA endorsed a set of rules, which allowed the sort of instantaneous reflex ball-handling permitted in Cambridge (rugbyderived) Rules. But by 1863, the main point of the mass emigration from Victoria to the South Island, the Cambridge Rules could be clearly differentiated from the game of football popular in distant Melbourne – largely by the insertion of a version of an offside restriction on players.17 Although these differences were gradually becoming apparent to players, the West Coast mining settlements and those of Central Otago shaped symbolic landscapes and social structures with Melburnian and Victorian origins. The dominance of a Victorian popular culture is most visible in the West Coast goldfields.

Here, as May pointed out:
The West Coast hotels bear the legends Lambing Flat, Ovens, Castlemaine, New Ballarat and Old Bendigo, the goldfield community remembered in place names not the Avons, the Oxfords and the Riccartons of England and Scotland but old Australian haunts...Donnelly’s Creek, Scandinavian Lead. Goldsborough, Lamplough, Rutherglen, Diamond Gully, Napoleon’s, Commissioner’s Flat, Frying Pan, White House Terrace and Sunday Creek were familiar names on both sides of the Tasman.18

The constant movement from Victoria was matched by an economic and demographic interdependence. As May again notes, New Zealand’s population doubled between 1861 and 1863 and the balance of population shifted from the North Island to the South Island as the unsuccessful diggers of Victoria moved in to Dunedin, Invercargill and later to Greymouth and Hokitika.19 Commerce ran from Melbourne to these locales.20 Between 1861 and 1863, around 64,000 Victorian miners arrived in Dunedin alone.

However, the nature of many Otago gold reserves (rich but shallow) left New Zealand miners to wander through the 1860s. Miners who remained in Victoria more likely worked for wages in quartz mines alongside larger townships. Alexander Don was one Ballarat miner who tried his luck first as a teenager in Otago, then travelled inland and back to Melbourne before returning to work along the shoreline and sands at the Taieri Mouth. He eventually quit New Zealand altogether, returning to Warrenheip and a life of smallholding agriculture alongside the old diggings of Ballarat.26 Victorian miners on fixed wages in quartz mines and small farmers such as Don, who dabbled in digging for gold, were more likely to form football clubs than were New Zealand gold-seekers.

 
I think to fully understand the QLD/NSW angle, you need to look further back.

Both NSW and QLD were in fact one single colony until 1859, when QLD separated. Furthermore, both were almost exclusively penal colonies, whereas Victoria had a very small penal demographic and had been available for free settlement years earlier than what became QLD.

There are clear differences between the type of society you will create where the origin is enforced as opposed to elected.

Thus, QLD and NSW were always culturally different and identified as one place until 1859, and I'd imagine there were those "further south" of Ipswich/Moreton Bay area who preferred to identify as still belonging near Botany Bay.

South Australia had no penal colonies at all and was exclusively free settlement.

So, considering that, it is easy to see that your first efforts and opportunity to assert your identity would come through cultural exchanges with neighbours of like genealogy. And the cultural exchanges available in the 1850's onward featured sport, amongst others. You have, culturally at least (and most certainly from an administrative/judicial sense) prisoners versus free men. This is critical in explaining the seemingly natural inclination for the link between QLD and NSW, especially in why they are so dissimilar to VIC....there is a natural inclination for VIC and it was always with SA - another free settlement.

OFF TOPIC COMMENT - NOT TO BE DISCUSSED HERE
And the urge to run with that as a marketing idea in the thread Admin created for me (the "irrelvant" one) is potent :D
 
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fabulousphil said:
IMO moving demographics play a large part...

The Riverina has always had economic and cultural links to Victoria, the area was settled primarily by people pushing Northwards opening up the lands to feed the mining operations of central Victoria.

The British games and their demographics were far stronger in NSW above the Murrambidgee and QLD was ultimately culturally tied to NSW and the status quo has more or less remained the same since.
Click to expand...

I would agree with your statements on demography..but I have been interested in how that can be expressed. Domination by Big City newspapers was probably less relevant in the 1800's which is why I consider rail to be important as it tied regions together more than state borders and political infrastructure.
 
Sausages said:
I think to fully understand the QLD/NSW angle, you need to look further back.

Both NSW and QLD were in fact one single colony until 1859, when QLD separated. Furthermore, both were almost exclusively penal colonies, whereas Victoria had a very small penal demographic and had been available for free settlement years earlier than what became QLD.

There are clear differences between the type of society you will create where the origin is enforced as opposed to elected.

Thus, QLD and NSW were always culturally different and identified as one place until 1859, and I'd imagine there were those "further south" of Ipswich/Moreton Bay area who preferred to identify as still belonging near Botany Bay.

South Australia had no penal colonies at all and was exclusively free settlement.

So, considering that, it is easy to see that your first efforts and opportunity to assert your identity would come through cultural exchanges with neighbours of like genealogy. And the cultural exchanges available in the 1850's onward featured sport, amongst others. You have, culturally at least (and most certainly from an administrative/judicial sense) prisoners versus free men. This is critical in explaining the seemingly natural inclination for the link between QLD and NSW, especially in why they are so dissimilar to VIC....there is a natural inclination for VIC and it was always with SA - another free settlement.

OFF TOPIC COMMENT - NOT TO BE DISCUSSED HERE
And the urge to run with that as a marketing idea in the thread Admin created for me (the "irrelvant" one) is potent :D
Click to expand...

Victoria split form NSW in 1851 ?, so it wasn't much earlier.

I would agree with the bulk of your post, the fact that NSW was initially almost exclusively a penal colony is important IMO, it created a class system copied from England, the goldfields of Victoria were a place where men no matter what their background were considered equals. (in general)

NSW has carried this through to its football codes, RU for the wealthy and aspiring middle classes and RL for blue collar workers, it is a English class system using football codes.

But i don't think there is one clear answer, it is a combination of many.

We could also say that NSW would refuse to take a idea/lead from what it considered it's little brother, it would look to it's mother
land ( England ) for it's recreational pursuits.
 
Michael Riley said:
I would agree with your statements on demography..but I have been interested in how that can be expressed. Domination by Big City newspapers was probably less relevant in the 1800's which is why I consider rail to be important as it tied regions together more than state borders and political infrastructure.
Click to expand...

Follow the money...or more specifically here, gold. I would think the pattern of gold rushes, providing what was essentially a tidal wave of economic prosperity, would likewise create regional identity.
 
Sausages said:
Follow the money...or more specifically here, gold. I would think the pattern of gold rushes, providing what was essentially a tidal wave of economic prosperity, would likewise create regional identity.
Click to expand...

As an aside La X was established in this country in the 1870's by a Canadian who came here with his family to the Victorian Goldfields in the 1850's, guess where the Canadian national team went in 1907, .. Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth, but also Bendigo, Ballarat and Kalgoorlie.

Guess which 3 states provides every player to the national team and has done so for over 100 years, bar a few from Broken Hill, Tassie etc

Follow the mining, follow the gold, follow people moving for work.

The exact same scenario has been repeated in the 1920's to Canberra and more recently to the GC in the 1980's where many people moved North.
 
What i would also be interested in was the South African gold rushes in the 1880's and 90's, the initial Gold rush in South Africa was sparked by an Australian digger who noted the similarities in landform to both California and central Victoria, makes me wonder how many Australian went and if they did, did they take footy with them, i have heard some football related stories about South Africa but possibly they are related to the Boer war which was a little bit after the initial gold rushes.
 

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Interesting proposal from CFC 1892-1948 book.

1915 - ANFC conference with Sydney Rugby League to bring the 2 codes into line.

Rugby League - abolish scrum, ball thrown in from out of bounds, bounce the ball in case of scrimmage, abolish special goal kicker with the man who scores penalty or try to be the kicker.

Aussie rules - bar over goal posts over which goals must be kicked, ball maybe thrown or knocked backwards, allow man with the ball to be tackled between shoulder and hip.
 
We have added South Africa to this topic and hope the Moderators agree.
Our game had been played in South Africa from circa 1900 to 1914?
This is an extract courtesy of the AFL South Africa Website in its history section. Their sources for this info not nominated.
As has been said elsewhere Sherrins were sending their footballs to South Africa in the 1900`s as per Newspaper Ads at the time.
  • Aussie Rules was first played in South Africa in 1899 as a result of Australian Army involvement in the Boer War
  • In 1901, there were over 20 clubs playing competitive football throughout South Africa
  • Between 1906 and 1913 the game was gaining a foothold however at the advent of the 1st World War in 1914, competition ceased
 
fabulousphil said:
Follow the mining, follow the gold, follow people moving for work.

The exact same scenario has been repeated in the 1920's to Canberra and more recently to the GC in the 1980's where many people moved North.
Click to expand...

The migration of people who took football north to the GC and further north to Cairns etc is slightly different to previous generations who moved west, NZ, Newcastle, Broken Hill etc, they all moved primarily to follow work or potential riches, many Southerners moved to the GC for a sea change.
 
TWLS said:
We have added South Africa to this topic and hope the Moderators agree.
Our game had been played in South Africa from circa 1900 to 1914?
This is an extract courtesy of the AFL South Africa Website in its history section. Their sources for this info not nominated.
As has been said elsewhere Sherrins were sending their footballs to South Africa in the 1900`s as per Newspaper Ads at the time.
  • Aussie Rules was first played in South Africa in 1899 as a result of Australian Army involvement in the Boer War
  • In 1901, there were over 20 clubs playing competitive football throughout South Africa
  • Between 1906 and 1913 the game was gaining a foothold however at the advent of the 1st World War in 1914, competition ceased
Click to expand...
For those who have not seen this before - see pic. of
PREMIERS OF THE AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE JOHANNESBURG, S.A., 1905.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/page/11433458?zoomLevel=1[/URL]
 
This is from The Football Record Rd. 4 1974 (page 15). It doesn't seem to have been mentioned in this thread, and I'm sure I've not heard this before:-

Many fans may not be aware of it, but a New Zealand team toured Victorian cities back in the 1880's and a representative team took part in the first ever AFC Carnival — in 1908.
 
35Daicos said:
This is from The Football Record Rd. 4 1974 (page 15). It doesn't seem to have been mentioned in this thread, and I'm sure I've not heard this before:-

Many fans may not be aware of it, but a New Zealand team toured Victorian cities back in the 1880's and a representative team took part in the first ever AFC Carnival — in 1908.
Click to expand...
Yeah fro Gèofreey Blaineys book "A Game to call our own" there was a very early and pretty strong comp in Wellington. Guess you have to remember that NZ was one of 6 south sea colonies at the time. NZ later fell under the slell of tbe "Eaton game" ie Rugby
 
I have often wondered what would have happened if Australian Football had been the dominant code in NSW and Queensland as well, with the clubs making up the NSWRL and QRL playing AFL.

Certainly, the Queensland Football League would have been alongside the WAFL and SANFL, and there would have been two very strong leagues in NSW (NSWFL) and Victoria (VFL), but which of these two do you think would have emerged dominant to form the basis of a national league?
 
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