AFLCA update... Rioli rocketing up the charts from eq 123rd to eq 73rd... Edwards eq 15th...
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AFL coaches think Shane Edwards is a better footballer than Cyril Rioli
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Strapping Young Lad
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Good to know he hit is quota of 1 good game a year
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Good to know he hit is quota of 1 good game a year
Unlike all previous 7 seasons in which he finished above Edwards you mean?
No but seriously, it's nice to see young 'titch' finally hitting his straps....While Sizzle was turning the 08 Grand Final, he was still trying to master kicking & hand balling techniques....Sizzle is younger by the way!
Just one last question though?....Who do we think would win in a 1/1 contest?....Nuff said!
But based on the "lets judge which player is best based on what is happening right this minute instead of over their career", Rioli judged to be TWICE as good as Edwards by the ALCA. TWICE! Who cares what they did last week, last month, or the last 7 years, live in the now! Edwards half the player Rioli is says the AFLCA votes this week. Pfft. Terrible thread.
Good to know he hit is quota of 1 good game a year
Edwards seems to have a quota of one good season a career (or to be fair, one half season), and is now a better player than anyone ranked beneath him in the AFLCA votes?
Strapping Young Lad
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No, the first 30 pages are you trying to convince the world that Edwards is a better player than Rioli.
My post was in regards to that particular poster saying how Rioli's game on Friday night was nothing comparable to the best player on the ground, which clearly, the two coaches disagreed with.
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Different types.............Shane is playing really well for the tigs and Cyril is and always was a star. We need a Cyril in our forward line.
- Dec 5, 2012
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Wait a few years and we will have a Rioli.
Mourice's son.
But the votes! They don't lie. Edwards has steamed past Cyril this year.
Bojan KantKick
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As much as i don't particularly like Cyril (Bruce's fault more than anything), he gets the job done when it matters and hence i'd take him ahead of Edwards who is a very good player.
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Thread just reeks of an institutionalised inferiority complex.
Edwards is having a good year - I'm happy for him.
Edwards is having a good year - I'm happy for him.
vmasco
Team Captain
2015 Stats for Season 2015
Rioli Edwards
12 Games 11
9.8 Kicks Per Game 10.8
4.8 Handballs Per Game 10.0
14.6 Disposals Per Game 20.8
4.1 Marks Per Game 3.1
1.6 Goals Per Game 0.8
1.1 Behinds Per Game 0.6
4.1 Tackles Per Game 3.9
0.4 Hitouts Per Game 0
3.3 Inside 50s Per Game 3.4
1.1 Goal Assists Per Game 0.9
1.2 Frees For Per Game 0.8
0.7 Frees Against Per Game 0.7
7.7 Contested Possessions Per Game 10.9
7.7 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 10.2
10.2 Effective Disposals Per Game 14.2
69.9% Effective Disposals % Per Game 68.3%
1.3 Clangers Per Game 2.9
0.5 Contested Marks Per Game 0.6
1.4 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.7
1.8 Clearances Per Game 4.0
0.2 Rebound 50s Per Game 1.1
1.9 One Percenters Per Game 1.1
1.1 Bounces Per Game 0.6
75.7 Time On Ground % Per Game 82.6
$401,000 AFL Fantasy Price $421,000
77.8 AFL Fantasy Score Per Game 81.6
$453,800 Supercoach Price $449,100
92.4 Supercoach Score Per Game 97.6
Each does amazing things for their team. Stats reflect their playing positions so as has been repeated throughout the thread a bit difficult to compare.
Yes Sheds has more coaches votes this year, but over their career Rioli probably better of the two. Note though Rioli first rounder #12, Edwards second rounder #26 so kind of expected. If I was a selector would come down to price and what positions need to be filled.
Rioli Edwards
12 Games 11
9.8 Kicks Per Game 10.8
4.8 Handballs Per Game 10.0
14.6 Disposals Per Game 20.8
4.1 Marks Per Game 3.1
1.6 Goals Per Game 0.8
1.1 Behinds Per Game 0.6
4.1 Tackles Per Game 3.9
0.4 Hitouts Per Game 0
3.3 Inside 50s Per Game 3.4
1.1 Goal Assists Per Game 0.9
1.2 Frees For Per Game 0.8
0.7 Frees Against Per Game 0.7
7.7 Contested Possessions Per Game 10.9
7.7 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 10.2
10.2 Effective Disposals Per Game 14.2
69.9% Effective Disposals % Per Game 68.3%
1.3 Clangers Per Game 2.9
0.5 Contested Marks Per Game 0.6
1.4 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.7
1.8 Clearances Per Game 4.0
0.2 Rebound 50s Per Game 1.1
1.9 One Percenters Per Game 1.1
1.1 Bounces Per Game 0.6
75.7 Time On Ground % Per Game 82.6
$401,000 AFL Fantasy Price $421,000
77.8 AFL Fantasy Score Per Game 81.6
$453,800 Supercoach Price $449,100
92.4 Supercoach Score Per Game 97.6
Each does amazing things for their team. Stats reflect their playing positions so as has been repeated throughout the thread a bit difficult to compare.
Yes Sheds has more coaches votes this year, but over their career Rioli probably better of the two. Note though Rioli first rounder #12, Edwards second rounder #26 so kind of expected. If I was a selector would come down to price and what positions need to be filled.
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LOL....You're such a pot stirrer....Those 3 Premierships must be a mirage then.
Do you mean Maurice?....Interesting to see if young Daniel gets drafted this year.
telsor
Hall of Famer
Yeah, you'd think Hawthorn supporters would have gotten over it after being at the top for so long, but they're still likes kids wanting to be at the grown up table...."we're big 4", "our players are the bestest ever".... Did you miss out on nap nap time?
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Quality vs Quantity/ Impact Vs Accumulation/ X-factor vs Utility
Recovery Session: Cyril Rioli puts statistics to the sword
Date
July 6, 2015 - 7:48PM
Michael Gleeson
Sports Writer for The Age
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Bradley Hill and Cyril Rioli of the Hawks rejoice after a goal. Photo: Michael Willson/AFL Media
Nathan Buckley thought it was the best game he had seen him play. He nodded to the numbers. He had 38 touches, 20 of them were with people hanging off him. He got the ball out of packs 10 times, then he brought down 10 opponents in tackles. Six times he gave the ball to forwards inside the arc near goal and five times that led to scores for his team.
It was about as complete a game as you can get, even by the standards of a man who is regarded as a complete footballer. But Scott Pendlebury might not have been as influential as a man who did less than half of all of that.
Cyril Rioli touched the ball sporadically yet he was a presence throughout. Rioli had a game of less is more. His game was no better or worse than Pendlebury's yet he had a quarter of the touches.
It is why he will forever be a point of conjecture. In one match he illustrated his beauty and frustration because everything he does is so compelling he leaves you wanting more. In an era of high possessions where a team amasses 400 touches, a player having only 10 and being best on ground appears silly.
Rioli only needed 10 touches to shape the match but that effort still teased you. If he can do that with 10 what would happen the day he got 20 or 30 touches?
Statistics are the economist's way of appreciating a game of football. They speak an accountant's language of efficiency and economy that leaves no place for art or creativity.
The economists have dominated football's conversation, but Cyril and Pendlebury dominated the MCG.
Every one of Cyril's possessions was, for the accountant, efficient. They hit their mark and by that definition were worthy. Every one of Cyril's possessions for the aesthete was beautiful. Yet some more so than others.
He kicked five goals. One was from a serendipitous mark after a soccered flick from Jordan Lewis looped long enough for him to slide beneath it, but he was in the front position in the first place and so earned his good fortune. Another goal was from a free kick for an arm about his head when he wriggled down and into a tackle which on another day might have seen him called for ducking his head.
But his finest moment was his last. It was the touch the accountants might have marked down for its efficiency or effect because his handball went to a shin. It was the ball he recovered when he dived under Marley Williams and left him wondering where the ball went, like a man checking for his wallet in a crowd. That ball sallied forward for a goal that let Hawthorn regain the lead and so that touch redirected the course and result of the game.
Pendlebury had a large number of possessions and it is wrong to assume that these were a workmanlike counterpoint to Rioli's artfulness. But Pendlebury's game was more typically appreciated because he was in the match the entire time and amassed a commanding amount of the ball. Pendlebury too provided art from his eye for creativity, for the time and space he found for himself and others, but he also provided efficiency through work.
"There are guys who can have 30 touches [and you don't notice them] and guys like Cyril can have 10 and be best on ground."
Lloyd said it was not just flamboyant players with minimal possessions for major impact that should be recognised.
"Alex Rance only had 15 disposals at the weekend but six of those saved his team goals and won them the game."
Recovery Session: Cyril Rioli puts statistics to the sword
Date
July 6, 2015 - 7:48PM
Michael Gleeson
Sports Writer for The Age
View more articles from Michael Gleeson
Follow Michael on Twitter Email Michael
Bradley Hill and Cyril Rioli of the Hawks rejoice after a goal. Photo: Michael Willson/AFL Media
Nathan Buckley thought it was the best game he had seen him play. He nodded to the numbers. He had 38 touches, 20 of them were with people hanging off him. He got the ball out of packs 10 times, then he brought down 10 opponents in tackles. Six times he gave the ball to forwards inside the arc near goal and five times that led to scores for his team.
It was about as complete a game as you can get, even by the standards of a man who is regarded as a complete footballer. But Scott Pendlebury might not have been as influential as a man who did less than half of all of that.
Cyril Rioli touched the ball sporadically yet he was a presence throughout. Rioli had a game of less is more. His game was no better or worse than Pendlebury's yet he had a quarter of the touches.
It is why he will forever be a point of conjecture. In one match he illustrated his beauty and frustration because everything he does is so compelling he leaves you wanting more. In an era of high possessions where a team amasses 400 touches, a player having only 10 and being best on ground appears silly.
Rioli only needed 10 touches to shape the match but that effort still teased you. If he can do that with 10 what would happen the day he got 20 or 30 touches?
Statistics are the economist's way of appreciating a game of football. They speak an accountant's language of efficiency and economy that leaves no place for art or creativity.
The economists have dominated football's conversation, but Cyril and Pendlebury dominated the MCG.
Every one of Cyril's possessions was, for the accountant, efficient. They hit their mark and by that definition were worthy. Every one of Cyril's possessions for the aesthete was beautiful. Yet some more so than others.
He kicked five goals. One was from a serendipitous mark after a soccered flick from Jordan Lewis looped long enough for him to slide beneath it, but he was in the front position in the first place and so earned his good fortune. Another goal was from a free kick for an arm about his head when he wriggled down and into a tackle which on another day might have seen him called for ducking his head.
But his finest moment was his last. It was the touch the accountants might have marked down for its efficiency or effect because his handball went to a shin. It was the ball he recovered when he dived under Marley Williams and left him wondering where the ball went, like a man checking for his wallet in a crowd. That ball sallied forward for a goal that let Hawthorn regain the lead and so that touch redirected the course and result of the game.
Pendlebury had a large number of possessions and it is wrong to assume that these were a workmanlike counterpoint to Rioli's artfulness. But Pendlebury's game was more typically appreciated because he was in the match the entire time and amassed a commanding amount of the ball. Pendlebury too provided art from his eye for creativity, for the time and space he found for himself and others, but he also provided efficiency through work.
"There are guys who can have 30 touches [and you don't notice them] and guys like Cyril can have 10 and be best on ground."
Lloyd said it was not just flamboyant players with minimal possessions for major impact that should be recognised.
"Alex Rance only had 15 disposals at the weekend but six of those saved his team goals and won them the game."
LOL....You're such a pot stirrer....Those 3 Premierships must be a mirage then.
No more than you.
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Sounds like you're quite worked up.
dunno why we are comparing the both when the play very, very different roles.
Was at a lot of games over the weekend and both were excellent. imo any team would love to have either player. I know the tigers could do with their own cyril in our forward line. stats aren't everything.
Was at a lot of games over the weekend and both were excellent. imo any team would love to have either player. I know the tigers could do with their own cyril in our forward line. stats aren't everything.
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He was great last season and in 2012, with pretty much the rest of his seasons being good and the worst. So dont know what youre going on about. I guess you only listen to the media, probably didnt even know who he was to this season.
Strapping Young Lad
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Nothing screams desperation like Richmond supporters who want to talk about how they're a part of an imaginary group that is supposed to be envied, especially when they bring it up to a club's supporters who've seen more Premierships in their lifetimes than any other group of posters on this entire forum.
You can have your "big 4".
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If the Official AFL player rankings count for anything, Shane Edwards is ranked 39th in the league, Cyril 65th. So for those holier than thou Hawthorn supporters who think this conversation shouldn't even be taking place, according to the official AFL player rankings, Cyril is ranked behind Edwards 26 spots down.
For the record, I think Edwards is having a better year whilst Cyril has had a better career.
For the record, I think Edwards is having a better year whilst Cyril has had a better career.
No, I don't only listen to the media. I find if I want opinions on a player, their club board on big footy is a good place to get well informed dialog on their pros and cons as a footballer, given those folk see their game every week. It is via Richmond fan posts on the Richmond board that I learnt that Shane Edwards is a spud that should be playing in the VFL. That was a commonly held opinion as recently as the start of last season. Forum rules don't allow linking to all those opinions, but try to find Hawthorn fans calling Rioli a spud on the Hawthorn boards. Will not happen.
I understand the psychological forces that lead supporters of a team that hasn't had meaningful finals exposure for 30+ years to think every half decent player on their list is the bee's knees, but please give it a rest.
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