The Off-Season Thread (Luke Ridnour destination watch)

[Hipster Doofus]

The Spurs turned Splitter and Baynes into Aldridge and West.

So. *******. Envious.

 

[stewie griffen]

Discussion point.

The league blocked the CP3 trade to the Lakers a few years back. Primarily based on this.

Amid a stream of reports that angry owners were demanding the trade be vetoed, on the same day those owners had gathered in New York to ratify a new labor pact purportedly designed to foster competitive balance and prevent small-market teams from being raided for their stars, league officials tried to dispute claims of a revolt by insisting that the decision was Stern's.

Should/Could the league be doing more in terms of equalisation amongst teams? Big market teams will always be big market teams but how can things be equal when in Texas for example there are no income tax laws? The only way for small and mid market teams is to land a stud in the draft, which will surely lead to more tanking?

End thought for the day

The tax concern is not quite as big as you think

All other income states states have a jock tax which may or may not include duty days as well as game day.

So yeah LMA gets the advantage of lets say 50 games in Texas, but Portland were the team that could offer him a 5 year deal with 7.5% raises as they hold his Bird rights, and he took a 4 year in Texas, probably with 4.5%. So the money he leaves on the table to sign there... is that as valuable as the tax he doesnt pay? But then he might reduce his travel costs as his kids are in Texas.

To quoteth the Coon

78. Are teams really competing on a level playing field? Since the tax rate is different in the different states and Canada, don't the teams in a more "tax friendly" state have an advantage over the other teams?
Yes they do. For example, an offer from Orlando will provide a higher net income than the same offer from Los Angeles, because the player will play at least half his games in a state with no state income tax. But the advantage is not quite as large as you might expect, because most jurisdictions with NBA teams require visiting athletes to pay state income taxes (often called a "jock tax") for each "duty day" they spend there. There is not a universal definition for a duty day, but it is generally considered to be any day the player spends in a particular jurisdiction, including for preseason, regular season and postseason games. For example, if there are 170 duty days in a season and a player plays five of those duty days in a state with a jock tax, then the player will pay state income taxes in that state based on 5/170 of his income.1

Currently:

• Florida (Heat and Magic), Tennessee (Grizzlies) and Texas (Mavericks, Rockets and Spurs) have no state income tax.
• Florida (Heat and Magic), Ontario (Raptors), Tennessee (Grizzlies), Texas (Mavericks, Rockets and Spurs) and Washington D.C. (Wizards) do not make visiting athletes pay a jock tax.
• Illinois (Bulls) does not make visiting athletes pay a jock tax if they come from jurisdictions without a jock tax. However, Illinois does not credit its residents for jock taxes paid out of state, so Bulls players can be double-taxed for some road games.

The league also has regulations to help neutralize the tax disadvantage of Canadian teams, and there is language in the CBA to help protect players' benefits from any adverse effects caused by changes in Canadian legislation or tax laws.

Incidentally, players are always paid in U.S. dollars, even if their team is located in Canada.

1 Tax laws are nuanced and complicated, and vary considerably from state to state. For this reason it is very difficult to determine a player's net income based on his salary and the state in which his team plays. For example, California does not exempt players from taxes on income earned while playing in other states. Instead it nets jock taxes paid in other states against California taxes, so a player based in California may owe taxes to two states for the same road games.

 

[Westy Bogan]

Poor Lebron is gonna have to try go through the Spurs again

 

[stewie griffen]

Poor Lebron is gonna have to try go through the Spurs again

And Utah

 

[Westy Bogan]

The Spurs turned Splitter and Baynes into Aldridge and West.

So. *******. Envious.

Unbelievable really... Pop is the master...

Talk about a stacked team.

 

[stewie griffen]

Unbelievable really... Pop is the master...

Talk about a stacked team.

#boughtnotbuilt

 

[Westy Bogan]

Thought all the free agents would be flocking to play with Kobe?

 

[Westy Bogan]

Think we need an offseason ladder fellas

Let me start:

1. Spurs

30. Clippers

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

The tax concern is not quite as big as you think

All other income states states have a jock tax which may or may not include duty days as well as game day.

So yeah LMA gets the advantage of lets say 50 games in Texas, but Portland were the team that could offer him a 5 year deal with 7.5% raises as they hold his Bird rights, and he took a 4 year in Texas, probably with 4.5%. So the money he leaves on the table to sign there... is that as valuable as the tax he doesnt pay? But then he might reduce his travel costs as his kids are in Texas.

To quoteth the Coon

78. Are teams really competing on a level playing field? Since the tax rate is different in the different states and Canada, don't the teams in a more "tax friendly" state have an advantage over the other teams?
Yes they do. For example, an offer from Orlando will provide a higher net income than the same offer from Los Angeles, because the player will play at least half his games in a state with no state income tax. But the advantage is not quite as large as you might expect, because most jurisdictions with NBA teams require visiting athletes to pay state income taxes (often called a "jock tax") for each "duty day" they spend there. There is not a universal definition for a duty day, but it is generally considered to be any day the player spends in a particular jurisdiction, including for preseason, regular season and postseason games. For example, if there are 170 duty days in a season and a player plays five of those duty days in a state with a jock tax, then the player will pay state income taxes in that state based on 5/170 of his income.1

Currently:

• Florida (Heat and Magic), Tennessee (Grizzlies) and Texas (Mavericks, Rockets and Spurs) have no state income tax.
• Florida (Heat and Magic), Ontario (Raptors), Tennessee (Grizzlies), Texas (Mavericks, Rockets and Spurs) and Washington D.C. (Wizards) do not make visiting athletes pay a jock tax.
• Illinois (Bulls) does not make visiting athletes pay a jock tax if they come from jurisdictions without a jock tax. However, Illinois does not credit its residents for jock taxes paid out of state, so Bulls players can be double-taxed for some road games.

The league also has regulations to help neutralize the tax disadvantage of Canadian teams, and there is language in the CBA to help protect players' benefits from any adverse effects caused by changes in Canadian legislation or tax laws.

Incidentally, players are always paid in U.S. dollars, even if their team is located in Canada.

1 Tax laws are nuanced and complicated, and vary considerably from state to state. For this reason it is very difficult to determine a player's net income based on his salary and the state in which his team plays. For example, California does not exempt players from taxes on income earned while playing in other states. Instead it nets jock taxes paid in other states against California taxes, so a player based in California may owe taxes to two states for the same road games.

It's still a factor when deciding between teams that don't hold your bird rights though. Say as an example between Spurs and Suns for LMA.

If the Cavs stay healthy, they win the East by a street.

West more competitive but outside the Dubs, Spurs and maybe OKC, no one else can win it.

Not sure what else you can do though. No sour grapes here, just trying to promote some discussion.

 

[silverscope]

Thought all the free agents would be flocking to play with Kobe?

Free agents will flock to Lakers when Kobe retires.

 

[Atlanta_Cats]

Joe ingles returning to Utah with a two year deal

 

[stewie griffen]

It's still a factor when deciding between teams that don't hold your bird rights though. Say as an example between Spurs and Suns for LMA.

If the Cavs stay healthy, they win the East by a street.

West more competitive but outside the Dubs, Spurs and maybe OKC, no one else can win it.

Not sure what else you can do though. No sour grapes here, just trying to promote some discussion.

It is and it isn't.

LMA goes to the Spurs as he is from Texas and they are closer to a chip, plus they have Pop and a great GM.

Lebron left the Cavs who had his Bird rights to team up with the Super Friends and they all took less money.

Meanwhile Melo stayed in New York to count his money.

Dwight took less to go to Texas, but over 4 years and with no state tax... yeah it works out pretty similar, but he was obviously gone.

Big free agents aren't going to smaller markets unless they are contenders, the money is a secondary consideration in that aspect.

Ask yourself.... If a guy is coming to you for money and money only... do you really want him in the first place?

 

[Special Agent Utah]

RC is truly remarkable...

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Ask yourself.... If a guy is coming to you for money and money only... do you really want him in the first place?

That's what the coach says. The owner says yes because even if we don't win it all it puts bums on seats and fills arenas which is critical in the mid to small teams.

I also think leaving 10 - 20 million on the table is pretty easy to do when you've already accrued 10 times that via salary, endorsements, investments, etc.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

RC is truly remarkable...

He certainly is, but how fortunate are the Spurs to have landed Duncan! Magnificent production for so long and a queue as long as the eyes can see for guys wanting to play with him. You can only be envious.

 

[peternorth]

Discussion point.

The league blocked the CP3 trade to the Lakers a few years back. Primarily based on this.

Amid a stream of reports that angry owners were demanding the trade be vetoed, on the same day those owners had gathered in New York to ratify a new labor pact purportedly designed to foster competitive balance and prevent small-market teams from being raided for their stars, league officials tried to dispute claims of a revolt by insisting that the decision was Stern's.

Should/Could the league be doing more in terms of equalisation amongst teams? Big market teams will always be big market teams but how can things be equal when in Texas for example there are no income tax laws? The only way for small and mid market teams is to land a stud in the draft, which will surely lead to more tanking?

End thought for the day

develop the player for 5 years, or until FA, then player bolts for spurs

 

[peternorth]

The tax concern is not quite as big as you think

All other income states states have a jock tax which may or may not include duty days as well as game day.

So yeah LMA gets the advantage of lets say 50 games in Texas, but Portland were the team that could offer him a 5 year deal with 7.5% raises as they hold his Bird rights, and he took a 4 year in Texas, probably with 4.5%. So the money he leaves on the table to sign there... is that as valuable as the tax he doesnt pay? But then he might reduce his travel costs as his kids are in Texas.

To quoteth the Coon

78. Are teams really competing on a level playing field? Since the tax rate is different in the different states and Canada, don't the teams in a more "tax friendly" state have an advantage over the other teams?
Yes they do. For example, an offer from Orlando will provide a higher net income than the same offer from Los Angeles, because the player will play at least half his games in a state with no state income tax. But the advantage is not quite as large as you might expect, because most jurisdictions with NBA teams require visiting athletes to pay state income taxes (often called a "jock tax") for each "duty day" they spend there. There is not a universal definition for a duty day, but it is generally considered to be any day the player spends in a particular jurisdiction, including for preseason, regular season and postseason games. For example, if there are 170 duty days in a season and a player plays five of those duty days in a state with a jock tax, then the player will pay state income taxes in that state based on 5/170 of his income.1

Currently:

• Florida (Heat and Magic), Tennessee (Grizzlies) and Texas (Mavericks, Rockets and Spurs) have no state income tax.
• Florida (Heat and Magic), Ontario (Raptors), Tennessee (Grizzlies), Texas (Mavericks, Rockets and Spurs) and Washington D.C. (Wizards) do not make visiting athletes pay a jock tax.
• Illinois (Bulls) does not make visiting athletes pay a jock tax if they come from jurisdictions without a jock tax. However, Illinois does not credit its residents for jock taxes paid out of state, so Bulls players can be double-taxed for some road games.

The league also has regulations to help neutralize the tax disadvantage of Canadian teams, and there is language in the CBA to help protect players' benefits from any adverse effects caused by changes in Canadian legislation or tax laws.

Incidentally, players are always paid in U.S. dollars, even if their team is located in Canada.

1 Tax laws are nuanced and complicated, and vary considerably from state to state. For this reason it is very difficult to determine a player's net income based on his salary and the state in which his team plays. For example, California does not exempt players from taxes on income earned while playing in other states. Instead it nets jock taxes paid in other states against California taxes, so a player based in California may owe taxes to two states for the same road games.

your use of different fonts, bullet points and formats is first class

 

[stewie griffen]

That's what the coach says. The owner says yes because even if we don't win it all it puts bums on seats and fills arenas which is critical in the mid to small teams.

I also think leaving 10 - 20 million on the table is pretty easy to do when you've already accrued 10 times that via salary, endorsements, investments, etc.

Indeed

Its easy if you are Lebron or Durant, a global brand who makes that much on the side it doesnt matter.

The same with Lillard and Rose, hell even Wade has his Chinese shoe deal, Curry has Under Armour and the like.

But if you are Chandler Parsons on a minimum 2nd round salary who can get 3/50, stay in a tax free state and party with Cuban?

On a side not, I'm trying to remember where it was but there was an article discussing the disparity between the top echelon tennis players and the rest. Some guys travelling economy and staying air bnb or sleeping on floors whilst Andy Murray takes a private chopper to games, well worth a read if you can find it

 

[peternorth]

Think we need an offseason ladder fellas

Let me start:

1. Spurs

30. Clippers

31. kings

(even though there's only 30 teams)

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Panthro is back.

 

[stewie griffen]

Panthro is back.

 

[AxelFoley]

The Return: MK II

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

This is still my favourite sentence ever constructed.

I couldn't get Bron to pick up my calls for a week after 'The Decision,' so finally I just sent him a text, I just said, Lion-O would never leave Panthro out in the cold. Two days later I get a text back that says I'm a basketball player and a businessman, not a Thundercat.

 

[BEEG]

This is still my favourite sentence ever constructed.

Funniest things I have ever read

 

[Dez!]

I ******* hate the Spurs so much, ****.

Oh and Boozer is in talks with them hahaha

He'll end up in New York PP don't worry.