Universal Love Not Boo-ing Goodes

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SpeciousArgument

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See my post about how people have been booing him for an array of reasons but now it is being interpreted by the aboriginal community (and others) as being a symbol of racism (either rightly or wrongly - it now doesn't matter). If you want to associate with such symbols then please, go ahead. If so, please refer to my other post and select which option you are A, B, C or D.
Then it needs to be explained to the Aboriginal community (perhaps you could volunteer, since you seem to speak for them) that he is being booed for a variety of reasons by a variety of people and was booed before being named Australian of the year.

Its a dangerous precedent to set that we should modify non racially motivated behaviour to appease people who might consider it racially motivated.
 

VSTone

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You just don't get it, do you? This is no longer just about booing Goodes. It has taken on a broader meaning.

If he happens to do something dirty during the game then I would expect people to yell out or boo. But this is happening from the first bounce and the booing is being viewed by the aboriginal community (and others) as having a racial motivation.

If you can't understand that then there's no helping you.

maybe i don't get it... but i will tune in to this on the weekend...
will the booing be obvious on tv? i haven't actually seen it yet - i don't watch much of the beer and circuses stuff...other than the Crows and the Strikers.

why has it taken on broader meaning? what started it? how did it progress?
 

Tex Support

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Just curious if any "booers" will stop now, regardless of reasoning, because the footy community (AFL, players, coaches, media etc.) are condemning it, and are asking for it to stop?
 
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We don't forget…in fact, the country has apologised for it! Oh, and good on them going for constitutional recognition btw, no problems.

But do not straw man me by comparing to child abuse hearings, how ridiculous. Oh, and if individual crimes against any child at any time are uncovered I hope that those people are brought to justice…to suggest otherwise is insulting.

So what would you like my kids to hear at school…shall I get Adam in to tell them they are little racists? Oh sorry, did I completely distort and misrepresent your argument :rolleyes:

I'm so sick of the extreme arguments on both sides….no wonder no one ever moves forward.
We do it to prevent further child abuse and punish those responsible for prior acts.

Unfortunately James Cook and Arthur Phillip are unavailable for comment.
 

whitey_1975

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As an Aboriginal man, who looks white, I feel conflicted. Nothing new really.
Now I respect Adam as a footballer just like I did Wayne Carey and Nathan Buckley. I booed them as players on an opposition team sometimes growing up, does that make me racist? No. Why did I boo? because I hoped it might put them off a bit, its part of footy banter and its no different to booing the ump when he makes a bad decision. Do I boo all the time they got the ball? No. And that is what concerns me.
However like I said, when it becomes obvious that it is getting to a player being booed, then I can see why it would continue, and WC fans do have a history with Goodes, they consider him the best player that cost them an extra flag maybe. Again I'm not sure, and would not like to call everyone a racist because they boo. Although being a white looking man I have come across a LOT of racist comments/people in my time, and most didn't like my reaction, and being younger my responses were sometime to come to blows, no the right way to handle it but I was young and proud of my heritage but mentally immature.
I almost consider booing a player as the ultimate compliment in some ways. Only the true champs are booed at every ground but their own. I really understand the doubts in Adam's mind about why he is booed every time he goes near ball, and it is completely fair and reasonable considering the amount of racism he and his family would have experienced all their lives makes it hard not to feel its a racist. I don't think the answer is as simple as just one thing, but a combination of many things. Banter, jealousy, fun, racism, sheep mentality, atmosphere, compliment, trying to put off game all contribute. Life really isn't as simple as just categorizing everything as racist or sheep mentality.
Lastly, this country still has a long way to go, and I look forward to one day seeing all of my brothers and sisters growing up where they will never encounter racism or the word race and see how much better they are and the whole world as a whole. I'm probably dreaming but definitely hopeful it can happen.
 
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So youre saying i should have pointed out that Goodes has a different skin colour to the people he is calling a racist? now who is the racist.

This argument is facile and pointless. You appear set in your assumption that me not liking a man who is black makes me racist. Let me know how you go finding a job when you finish your arts degree.

Look tiger ... I have two degrees from the mid 1990's, and neither of them are Arts based ... I had no problems getting a job or setting up and running multiple companies. I do however notice when someone tries to reduce an argument to personal attacks because they are lost and confused and out of their depth.

You keep jumping at shadows. I wasn't having a go at your pathetic attempt at humour and it's colour choices ... I was being satirical. It's not about not liking a black man making you racist - it's not even about your unfocussed argument that it's about Adam Goodes being a dickhead who called you a racist - so he deserves to be booed. It is more about your inability to see that what Goodes does, how he is - is what is causing you to paint this evil picture of him. Trying to pretend that you are getting all steamed up over his playing style is laughable ... where are all your posts about other players that do stuff on-field you don't like?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

And another thing. I am so sick and tired of this bullshit argument that "some people who boo him are racist therefore booing gives them cover." wtf does that even mean?

Some people drive drunk, or without a license, so id better not drive because its giving them cover?

Some people use clothes to cover up swastika tattoos so i shouldnt wear clothes because it gives those people cover? wtf?

You do understand that you are coming across as a complete fool with these examples don't you?

I'll help you.

If all child abusers wore red hats to the footy - would you be arguing for your right to wear a red hat? Or would you choose a different colour so that the child abuser stood out and could not use the excuse that "people who don't abuse children wear red hats too" and they would be unable to hide among us?

If you agree that there is a racist element that is booing Goodes because of who he is and what he stands up for - then why would you want to boo him at all? Why wouldn't you use the opportunity to show what you believe and make a stand? Even if it meant that you couldn't boo your least favourite awful cheating scum of a player (2 X Brownlow Medalist, 2 X Premiership player, 3 X Bob Skilton Medal, 4 X All Australian) for a week or two? Can't you see the higher cause here?
 

SpeciousArgument

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Look tiger ... I have two degrees from the mid 1990's, and neither of them are Arts based ... I had no problems getting a job or setting up and running multiple companies. I do however notice when someone tries to reduce an argument to personal attacks because they are lost and confused and out of their depth.

You keep jumping at shadows. I wasn't having a go at your pathetic attempt at humour and it's colour choices ... I was being satirical. It's not about not liking a black man making you racist - it's not even about your unfocussed argument that it's about Adam Goodes being a dickhead who called you a racist - so he deserves to be booed. It is more about your inability to see that what Goodes does, how he is - is what is causing you to paint this evil picture of him. Trying to pretend that you are getting all steamed up over his playing style is laughable ... where are all your posts about other players that do stuff on-field you don't like?

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.



You do understand that you are coming across as a complete fool with these examples don't you?

I'll help you.

If all child abusers wore red hats to the footy - would you be arguing for your right to wear a red hat? Or would you choose a different colour so that the child abuser stood out and could not use the excuse that "people who don't abuse children wear red hats too" and they would be unable to hide among us?

If you agree that there is a racist element that is booing Goodes because of who he is and what he stands up for - then why would you want to boo him at all? Why wouldn't you use the opportunity to show what you believe and make a stand? Even if it meant that you couldn't boo your least favourite awful cheating scum of a player (2 X Brownlow Medalist, 2 X Premiership player, 3 X Bob Skilton Medal, 4 X All Australian) for a week or two? Can't you see the higher cause here?
Your argument is facile which is why im no longer actively engaging you. Im pleased to hear about all your successful companies.

If I wore a red hat to the football for 5 years, then a child claimed that someone who abused them wore a red hat once and therefore no one should be allowed to wear red hats, i would say no, the same as i am saying to you and to Adam.

inb4 you resort to hitler.
 
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If we are a country of red neck racists how come we celebrate Cathy Freeman, Cyril Rioli, Eddie Betts, Shaun Burgoyne, Michael Long etc etc. Could it because they are decent human beings.
Cathy Freeman in 1994 celebrates with the Aboriginal flag after winning the Commonwealth Games. Is widely criticized on talk back (thanks God there was no Twitter or Facebook then), by the Commonwealth Games head, and by a Liberal MP, Bill Taylor:
BILL TAYLOR:
I think that what she showed, and I think if you look at the film you will see that she started with the Aboriginal flag and eventually got the Australian flag, and there seemed to be a little reluctance, maybe it was just in the heat of the moment, to accept it. But nevertheless, I think there is a time and a place for the Aboriginal motif, or flag, and I don't think it was the appropriate time nor the place.
MONICA ATTARD: So she oughtn't to have been running with the Aboriginal flag, you're saying?
BILL TAYLOR: Well, I mean, I think she .. that was her prerogative, but what I'm saying is that she went to the Commonwealth Games as an Australian. And, I mean, what would happen, for example, if a Canadian Aboriginal came along with something? I mean, would a Canadian Aboriginal come with anything?

It was such a controversial action that Keating, the PM at the time, was being asked about his thoughts on it.

You have to remember that when a year later the Aboriginal flag and the Torres Strait Islander Flag were granted official status and put on the same rank with the ensigns of the armed forces it was criticised by John Howard because they didn't represent "all Australians" and thus should be lower down the rank, so let's not pretend the nation stood as one and celebrated her.

Same with Michael Long (received death threats, coped criticism from former players, abuse from the crowd (you could do that then - it was so rife the AFL had to bring a rule to stop it), Nicky Winmar and any number of other indigenous people who have been outspoken in even small but significant ways - we may celebrate them now. But at the time? Far less universally so.
 

Mike Smyth

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Do people honestly believe non-Indigenous Australia haven't been told about the sub-human treatment of many Aboriginal people after settlement, or the stolen generation?

I'd be shocked if most literate Australians haven't been made fully aware of that awful history…how do we move forward is the positive question.
Yeah i believe most haven't been told the full extent of the genocide or they don't really understand the logistics of nearly wiping a race of people off the face if the earth. Imagine the nuts and bolts of the brutality.
 

Mego Red

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Personally, if I had been booing Adam Goodes because of how he played the game, I would now have a look around and see how my actions are getting rolled into those of racists and I would probably stop.

Even if I felt I had the "right reasons" for booing a great such as Goodes, I wouldn't want to be associated with ignorance.
 
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Yeah i believe most haven't been told the full extent of the genocide or they don't really understand the logistics of nearly wiping a race of people off the face if the earth. Imagine the nuts and bolts of the brutality.
Is it right to hold the current generation responsible?

Do we hold descendants of Nazi war criminals responsible for the acts of their ancestors? We dont because it would be ridiculous and yet I am supposed to wear the burden of what people way further removed from me than the above example did?
 

Freddy Bassett

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I must say I do not look at Goodes as an Aboriginal. I look at every person, male or female as the same and equal.
I feel sorry for him if he has a chip on his shoulder...
I do not boo, but if I felt the need to boo him I wouldn't hesitate just because he is of different race to me.
I freely admit I am a tree hugging, politically correct feminist. But if I want to boo Goodes, race has nothing to do with it
 
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Personally, if I had been booing Adam Goodes because of how he played the game, I would now have a look around and see how my actions are getting rolled into those of racists and I would probably stop.

Even if I felt I had the "right reasons" for booing a great such as Goodes, I wouldn't want to be associated with ignorance.
Perfect summation.
 

Big Gazoongas

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Why was Jobe Watson booed when we know 34 Essendon players injected? and as I said, there are an array of reasons people might feel the need to boo Goodes, but the booing is now becoming a symbol of racism. Do you want to be associated with that? Please answer my question!

Off course you don't want to be associated with racism. Its ugly and not warranted nor should it be tolerated. The booing of Goodes being a symbol of racism, sorry don't buy that entirely, if that assertion was 100% accurate there would be more booing of indigenous players other than Goodes.

What are your views on his behaviour in relation to the Racial Vilification Laws in this country. Here is the link https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/racial-vilification-law-australia

Tell me if you think he has behaved contrary to those laws? and don't come back with the argument that he has behaved in a way of his indigenous culture...that point it totally irrelevant to the racial vilification Laws of this country.
 

Bicks

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choppychester

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Is it right to hold the current generation responsible?

Do we hold descendants of Nazi war criminals responsible for the acts of their ancestors? We dont because it would be ridiculous and yet I am supposed to wear the burden of what people way further removed from me than the above example did?

Well yeah to a degree you are. If you are directly benefiting through the life you lead it's not to much to ask to be sensitive to the cultures who have been damaged as a result.
 
Oct 6, 2012
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Off course you don't want to be associated with racism. Its ugly and not warranted nor should it be tolerated. The booing of Goodes being a symbol of racism, sorry don't buy that entirely, if that assertion was 100% accurate there would be more booing of indigenous players other than Goodes.

What are your views on his behaviour in relation to the Racial Vilification Laws in this country. Here is the link https://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/racial-vilification-law-australia

Tell me if you think he has behaved contrary to those laws? and don't come back with the argument that he has behaved in a way of his indigenous culture...that point it totally irrelevant to the racial vilification Laws of this country.
I have not once asserted in this thread that Adam Goodes is a beacon to follow. I have been clear that I am certainly not the #1 ticket holder of the Adam Goodes fan club. But this issue is no longer about Adam Goodes. It has taken on broader meaning (rightly or wrongly) and therefore needs to be stopped.
 
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The right way to go about it certainly isn't labeling Australia day as invasion day that's for sure
Why?

There is a "right way" to protest injustices based on race. And massacres at the hands of white people.

Just because you and I didn't do it doesn't mean the scars are not there. White people (or people of privilege) need to come to terms with all these uncomfortable things that Goodes makes us feel.
 

SpeciousArgument

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I must say I do not look at Goodes as an Aboriginal. I look at every person, male or female as the same and equal.
I feel sorry for him if he has a chip on his shoulder...
I do not boo, but if I felt the need to boo him I wouldn't hesitate just because he is of different race to me.
I freely admit I am a tree hugging, politically correct feminist. But if I want to boo Goodes, race has nothing to do with it
I grew up in a house with a powerful corparate type mother and a union rep member of the labour party father. In my life, gender and race dont matter, what matters is a persons actions.

It irks me that if i want to boo Goodes i am declared a racist, or providing cover for racists.
 

Jack is Back

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I will be at the SCG on Saturday (followed by a couple of days in the Hunter) and the only one I want to boooo is $kirt. Does he venture from his Bondi mansion when he is having the week off?

I watch plenty of footy and there is no doubt in my mind that the booing has racist overtones. Some say he is booed because he is a dirty footballer. Is he the biggest thug in the leagiue? Can't remember people booing Barry Hall (not if they had any sense). Is he the biggest squealer for frees? Not in the same league as Selwood, Wantfrees and Wingegard. Has he disgraced himself off the field? Any Carey like indiscretions, I didn't hear anyone boo Bennell on the weekend.

What I don't understand is the racial abuse from fans despite the large number of non WASPs in every team. IMHO our greatest player (Roo a narrow second) is an indigenous Australian, I love watching Eddie and Charlie who are two of the most popular players on our list. The rumour is that Jetta wants to return to Perth. I bet the Dockers enjoyed all the booing.
 
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