Mega Thread Adam Goodes starring in Lord of the Flies - The only place to post Goodes stuff - Read the OP

[moistie]

The AFL has made a rod for its own back with the handling of the Essendon drugs saga. The football public have had a gutfull of being told what to think by the boys club that is the sporting media.

Rightly or wrongly there is a perception that Adam Goodes has been a protected species throughout his career, by the umpires and tribunal. After so many years of being told by the media and administration that his s**t doesn't stink while he continued to stage and snipe without being called on it (remember the allegations of racism levelled at Dermie when he called Goodes out after he nearly broke Gibbo's ankles) people are rightly fed up with it and started booing him every time he went near the ball.

Then the media who created the problem by refusing to acknowledge that Goodes could play outside the laws of the game and get away with it, exacerbated its image problem by attempting to exonerate Essendon and Hird when it's entirely clear the majority of the footballing public think otherwise.

Now the media have labelled the entire football public racists for venting their frustration with the game. They fail to realise they no longer have the trust of the public. The rise of social media means their voice is no longer the authority and its betrayal of trust means the public is no longer going to fall into the company line pushed through the mainstream media by AFL house.

As much as I don't like Adam Goodes it is a great shame as Australia as a nation needs to discuss racism. Unfortunately the message is lost with the messenger.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Here is a lesson in Psychology for you all - The brain has two modes of thinking - Automatic (type 1) and Deliberate (type 2). Type 1 thought is where we take things at face value and make an immediate judgment based on what we see. There is no rational process involved it is simply a response built up by conditioning throughout our lives. If we look up in the sky and see dark clouds we make a judgment that it is likely to rain. If get asked what the profession is of a middle aged women who is conservatively dressed, who is carrying a book and wears glasses we are probably going to guess Librarian. Type 2 thought is where we rationally process information and come to a logical conclusion. We might look at statistics for rainfall and note that August is the driest month of the year and while dark clouds usually indicate rain, in August it is still unlikely to rain. We might identify that there are no libraries in the town where we saw this women but we know from reading ABS data that middle aged women in this town are most likely to be an accountant.

Not surprisingly type 2 thinking is a lot harder and more energetically expensive than type 1. Our brain is lazy and unless we are in a situation that demands us to engage in type 2 thought we stick to type 1 thought in most instances. This tells us that the vast majority of people who booed Goodes did not sit down and analyse Goodes' behaviour across his career and in the media and determine a scale by which that behaviour should be measured in an absolute sense and then against that scale they found Goodes to be categorically worthy of being booed. For most the emotional response (dictated by type 1 thinking) comes first and the rational arguments come second. Without training almost no one is self aware enough to be conscious of this process and even with years of training and experience we can all be prone to illogical conclusions based on type 1 thinking. No one believes themselves to be racists (except for neo-nazis I guess) so the reasons for booing are inevitably formulated along non-racist lines. That doesn't mean that booing isn't racially motivated it just means that people excel at rationalizing actions to align with their values and sense of identity. Just like Al Capone argued he was a public benefactor, we all argue we are not racists even if we are not consciously aware of the truth.

You may be self aware enough to know that any emotional response to Goodes was not racially motivated in any way however can you say the same for everyone else? You only need to look at the formulation of arguments in this thread and see how they have shifted away (for the most part) from arguments connected to his AOY award and his racism comments to safer ground such as isolated on field incidents throughout his career or his 'character'. Bottom line we don't know for sure if we are responding to his comments about race, his AOY, the time he pointed out a girl in the crowd for being racist, the time he slid into gibbo, the stupid comment he made on Sunday footy show or whatever other reason people are claiming in this thread. What we do know is that the response to Goodes is unjustifiable larger than it is for other player. There is no bigger on field flog than Stevie J. He also got caught driving at some ridiculous speed in a suburban area. He also had other off field issues early in his career. Never had anything like the booing Goodes is getting. So even if you aren't racists, why does anyone want to be lumped in with racists behaviour when it is likely that many people have responded negatively to Goodes' comments and actions against racism?

So easy fix, let's boo strevie J, duckwood, jab Watson, travis Cloke. And for shits and giggles boo every Sydney player except for Goodes. Wonder what the media will make of that?

 

[MightyHawks]

Adam Goodes over the course of his career receives about as many free kicks as he gives away

It's interesting to note that in 2013 (the year with the pointing incident) and 2014 (as Australian of the Year) he received many more frees than he gave away

2013 - 13 FF 4 FA
2014 - 20 FF 9 FA

There is a public perception that Goodes receives favourable treatment from the AFL, the MRP, the Umpires and the Media

Unsurprisingly this is categorically dismissed by the AFL and the Media

off field, where I was most disappointed in Goodes over the last couple of years was in how he handled the Eddie McGuire King Kong joke

This was an opportunity for Goodes to model forgiveness and reconciliation and he failed

And that's a real shame

On field I'm most disappointed in him for on field sledging.

 

[Crankyhawk]

So why has the booing intensified this year? The girl incident happened two years ago, so why wasn't Goodes booed like this all throughout 2014? Perhaps i am misremembering, but i only recall him being booed at Hawthorn and Collingwood games, and now he is booed every week, and to levels we have rarely seen before.

What has changed this year? Perhaps it was Goodes' war dance. Perhaps it was the media going on a week long rant about how racist Hawthorn fans are after the Hawthorn game. And then again after the Carlton game. What was different about the West Coast game that has caused all this extra outrage? Perhaps it's the Jetta dance. Perhaps it's because the media have once again taken things to a level we haven't seen for months.

The media have made this a bigger issue than it should have been. I truly believe that most of the booers are doing it for non-racial reasons. If the media attention around this was significantly smaller, most people would have stopped caring, but once the media started attacking fans, people suddenly had a dog in the fight. People got annoyed, people wanted to show their displeasure, and there's only really one way for fans to do that.

I mean, how could anybody believe that influential media and AFL figures coming out and saying they have 'no doubt' that this is racism when there was no evidence at all, wouldn't intensify the issue and cause issues with fans?

Also media not recalling that eagles fans boo everything.

 

[Crankyhawk]

No disrespect to you mate but how will your "line in the sand" be accurate? The line that says that after this point if you boo....you are a racist.

How can you draw a line and then say to people if you cross this line in this way then you are definitely a racist.

That can not be an accurate statement, neither is it realistic. How can booing be racist just because it has reached "a certain level" as well as fall into the category of discriminatory on the same basis? That is possibly alarmist...but not actually factual.

This is not an attack on you....just trying to get my head around your statements and logic as I believe that you have made them in good faith.

I suppose it has changed for myself (a booer) that Goodes has stated he feels the booing is racial vilification. Vilification is in the eyes and ears of the receiver so that means the booing is racial vilification. Even if not intended that way.


Our (booing side) point has been made. There's no need to continue. Silence (eerie dead silence) is now appropriate.

 

[Rioli2Gunstall]

Well done to Dermott for standing up to that complete moron who likes to set her own agenda and label all people with the same brush. ie "middle class australians are all racist"

 

[JoeHawk]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...s-legend-jason-akermanis-20150728-gime0z.html

Aker thinks we are beatable, which is fair enough - entitled to opinions and all that. I do find it amusing though that he thinks a potential Hawks threepeat wouldn't be a fair comparison based on free agency. We've signed one player via free agency (he also mentions McEvoy which he must have forgot was a trade) - against how many players they could retain due to salary cap concessions? Come on Aker, be fair now!

So Akers crawled out from the woodwork to justify his existence in the media world. Peaking to early? Perhaps. Who knows? I don't consider the recent big wins as peaking too early but rather for necessity to gain our percentage over a competitor. It's just fortunate that we perhaps played Freo and Sydney at their most vulnerable times and made the best of the situation. And let's forget about Carlton. Come finals time I'm sure they won't be as easy games but it's surely provided us with a mental edge. So have Eagles perhaps peaked too early .....all year?

 

[Crankyhawk]

I must be going deaf, I haven't heard that level of consistent, weekly booing directed towards Sam. Apologies - carry on

Was there in Collingwood and Sydney games. Didn't happen vs freo (home crowd), or Carlton (no Carlton crowd) expect to hear it vs tigers (although maybe not as they have their own 2012 Brownlow winner so could be pro Mitchell) and Eagles (land of boo).

 

[JoeHawk]

Tiger fans will certainly boo ......... In the last quarter at their own players when they're getting spanked.

 

[crazywildhorse]

Was there in Collingwood and Sydney games. Didn't happen vs freo (home crowd), or Carlton (no Carlton crowd) expect to hear it vs tigers (although maybe not as they have their own 2012 Brownlow winner so could be pro Mitchell) and Eagles (land of boo).

WC worst fans rival those from Collingwood from their Victoria Park days

 

[Crankyhawk]

so two wrongs make a right?

More that booing Milne not seen as wrong so what's the problem doing it to Goodes?

But as I wrote earlier as a booer I think it's time to stop. If it's got to the point where he will stop playing due to belief/ feeling it's racial vilification it's time to stop. For those on the hardcore boo opinion think of it as a victory of sorts, that we have broken him (not my intent, was just to put him off). As I said will use stony silence next time.

 

[QuietB]

I was torn for exactly the same reason as yourself but I firmly believe that this is no longer just about Goodes - it's now more about being told you can't boo and supporters are just mindlessly doing it for no other reason than they can. Unfortunately that's no consolation for Goodes and to that end its the media that needs to take a long hard look at itself and the role they have played in this saga.

I don't believe it started off being racially motivated but along the way it has evolved in to some sections of the crowd using that initial booing to also express their condemnation of him outing the 13 year old and then being awarded AOTY (although I don't understand why that's happening). I don't recall why the Hawks fans were booing him so loudly back in round 8 but as a result of that the media labelled all hawk supporters racist but I think it was the catalyst For other supporter bases to go whoa, we aren't wearing that and have reacted accordingly.

The afl now finds itself in a precarious situation and I won't be surprised if we all find that booing gets banned altogether as ludicrous as that sounds.

The AFL are in a nasty position. They cannot ban booing. They will basically ostracise half their supporter base at a time when it is dropping anyway.

People like Robbo are the worst thing for this with his sanctimonious and contradictory bullshit. It is plain stupid that the media have the worst media training.

At a time that people should be dousing the flames all we get is more fuel and more division.

I have never seen something handled so amateurishly.

 

[TNTre]

Personally, I think the media has played such a huge part in this yet it has largely been ignored in favour of either pro boo or anti boo.

Pretty sure it was earlier this year when the swans had a "boo a roo" slogan before a game, and Goodes himself stated that the booing helps him/means they respect him. Fast forward to now, with the screeching hysterical media creating stories out of the thinnest of proof (eg. Calling all hawks fans racist after the booing earlier this year) and all the calls of the booing being race related, we now see Goodes, how dispute my personal feelings toward the bloke, is now feeling the need to step back from the game. The media has so much power in directing people to feel certain ways about things that it's now had a huge affect across the afl community. Instead of asking people not to boo, I would think it would be wise for Gil to tell the media to report facts rather than sensationalise everything. Footy media now resembles today tonight rather than any balanced, unbiased analysis or objective points of view.

Racism won't stop with telling people not to boo sadly. However if the media is to be believed, if people don't boo then racism doesn't exist.

 

[bigton08]

Sniper is considering retiring ... YEEEEESS my dreams could come true... Oh yes what a day that would be... Rev that toyota up hell I'll even drive it....somebody is telling him IT'S OVER . Sniper can't deal with the booing he thinks it's racism we all know it's because he's a dirty player!!!

 

[Pessimistic]

More that booing Milne not seen as wrong so what's the problem doing it to Goodes?

But as I wrote earlier as a booer I think it's time to stop. If it's got to the point where he will stop playing due to belief/ feeling it's racial vilification it's time to stop. For those on the hardcore boo opinion think of it as a victory of sorts, that we have broken him (not my intent, was just to put him off). As I said will use stony silence next time.

my feelings recently.
Also there was a large contingent of hawks fans all together at ANZ. Cant say I was particularly listening but wouldnt travelling fans be the more hard core supporters, and I didnt hear booing through the TV.

Given domaine stadium has the nickname boobiaco, isnt this a bit of an over reaction ?

 

[cryptor]

On the Aker article...

It's preferable for us and the club that they (the media) continue to say things like we've peaked too early.

This group is proud and it will spur them on to prove everyone wrong.

2012 they didn't really say we peaked. It was the "who could possibly stop this juggernaut" line but without the constant references to the fail in the 2012 GF (obviously because it hadn't happened yet) to temper it.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I have never seen something handled so amateurishly.

Can you think of anything handled more amateurishly, Jimmy?

 

[Prudster]

Racism won't stop with telling people not to boo sadly. However if the media is to be believed, if people don't boo then racism doesn't exist.

This. So much this. Stopping the booing is a bandaid. Racism will still exist. The non-racist reasons for people booing Adam will still exist. The negative feelings towards Adam because of this entire saga will still exist. The fact that large portions of the AFL media have openly attacked fans with no proof will still exist.

What happens when the next Adam Goodes comes along and people boo him? Most of these people crying racist in the media don't care about racism. They don't care about the underlying issues that need to be solved for anything to change. They just want to sit down at the end of the day and say i called somebody a racist, i'm doing my part for the indigenous cause, and i get paid for it because my outrage sold more papers than reporting facts.

 

[Taskmaster]

Calm Down.....IGNORE BUTTON IS YOUR FRIEND!

I have to agree with Muff73. There are some on here that think that their opinion is the only opinion people should have and dictate how we should act. They can act however way they see fit, but I will continue to think Goodes a complete clown and I hope he does retire, do the whole industry a favor!!!

 

[bigton08]

I have to agree with Muff73. There are some on here that think that their opinion is the only opinion people should have and dictate how we should act. They can act however way they see fit, but I will continue to think Goodes a complete clown and I hope he does retire, do the whole industry a favor!!!

Clown??? That's an understatement.. It really will prosper without him.. He's been a s**t stain on the game!

 

[Big Hotdog]

For someone who has given and been given so much by the game it would appear that in the end he will take a lot more.

 

[Taskmaster]

Clown??? That's an understatement.. It really will prosper without him.. He's been a s**t stain on the game!

Was just trying to be as kind as possible, because some on here may get a little upset. I don't think I can write what I really think of the %^%$# **&^%%^ on here.........

 

[Cynic]

On one hand I think if Goodes has been booed to the point where it is making him question playing on I think it's gone too far.

On the other I can't help but wonder if he will be using this as a chance to retire and make a statement about racism...

 

[Main Man]

I have to agree with Muff73. There are some on here that think that their opinion is the only opinion people should have and dictate how we should act. They can act however way they see fit, but I will continue to think Goodes a complete clown and I hope he does retire, do the whole industry a favor!!!

Agree, it is people out there in the media and broader community racing each other to get to the moral high ground so they can feel good about themselves that have blown this issue completely out of proportion and made it into something that it is just not.

I'm sick of hearing about it and sick of do gooders giving this the oxygen it does not deserve by pushing the racial agenda.

Rebbecca Wilson saying she is ashamed to be Australian and that middle class Australians booing are all racists, seriously, it is some of the most incompetent and outrageous commentary that I have witnessed, comments like this are just going to make it worse for Goodes because it is rubbing people up the wrong way much the same as Goodes abrasive behavior has done in the past.

Having said that I think it is time the booing stop, I have never booed Goodes but at the same time have never had issue with those that have chosen to do so but this situation has simply got out of hand, whether you like it or not this is not good for anybody involved.

The small minority who are racially motivated need to take a long hard look at themselves but so does Goodes, he needs to consider the fact that he has brought some of this upon himself, until he realize that then he is always going to be disliked and rub people (who are anything but racists) up the wrong way, maybe he should look to Mandela for inspiration.

As for the majority of the media, well they just become more and more incompetent an pathetic by the day.

 

[Argy]

Having said that I think it is time the booing stop, I have never booed Goodes but at the same time have never had issue with those that have chosen to do so but this situation has simply got out of hand, whether you like it or not this is not good for anybody involved.

Repeated for emphasis.