BOOO-ing Goodes

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't like goodes the footballer - he carries on like an absolute pillock on the footy field but I still don't really understand why some supporters feel the need to boo him for 2 hours.

I jeered when he nudged schofield in the back as well as when he got out pointed by Barassment in a 1 on 1. ****ed if I was going to boo him just for being in the vicinity of the ball though

It'd be good if it stopped because I'm sick of the debate and whilst I don't hold the view that it's fundamentally racist you can't argue that racism isn't at least a factor in it
 
Jan 13, 2013
22,964
44,789
AFL Club
West Coast
Gary Lyon footy classified tonight
In re to booing Adam Goodes
Whilst he was in the past guilty of
He has since been reeducated

Gary Lyons bank manager likes this
Gary Lyons property manager likes this
Gary Lyons stock broker likes this
Gary Lyons wife likes this
Chanel nine likes this
Wonder if he's ever apologised to Chris Lewis
 

tumtum

Debutant
Jul 28, 2011
113
128
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
What issue should I be concerned with? I haven't booed anyone, and I don't believe many of the people who booed Goodes on the weekend were doing it for racist reasons. I'm concerned that the supporters of the team I follow have been unfairly tagged as racist by a biased media out for a story and to stick the boot in.
I would think that a champion of the game (2x Brownlow, 2x Premiership, future Hall of Famer) is considering never playing again because he believes the booing and constant attention is having a detrimental effect on his teammates and the team is a more serious issue than this biased media conspiracy you have concocted. The media has by and large tagged a minority of the eagles crowd who are booing as having racist intentions, just as they have tagged the minority portions of the crowds of every single other crowd that has booed Adam Goodes. No media commentator has said it is purely a West Coast Eagle crowd problem, so how is it biased? Again, literally every single piece of commentary is very careful to point out it is an AFL wide problem, what are you possibly viewing to reach your conclusion? Oh, and do you seriously believe this whole issue is all just a story made up by the media to stick the boot in? Did we really land on the moon?
 

Dugg

Club Legend
Oct 5, 2012
1,650
2,022
AFL Club
West Coast
I would think that a champion of the game (2x Brownlow, 2x Premiership, future Hall of Famer) is considering never playing again because he believes the booing and constant attention is having a detrimental effect on his teammates and the team is a more serious issue than this biased media conspiracy you have concocted. The media has by and large tagged a minority of the eagles crowd who are booing as having racist intentions, just as they have tagged the minority portions of the crowds of every single other crowd that has booed Adam Goodes. No media commentator has said it is purely a West Coast Eagle crowd problem, so how is it biased? Again, literally every single piece of commentary is very careful to point out it is an AFL wide problem, what are you possibly viewing to reach your conclusion? Oh, and do you seriously believe this whole issue is all just a story made up by the media to stick the boot in? Did we really land on the moon?
Gary Lyon said this on access all areas yesterday.
 

big bootaaaaah

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 10, 2011
10,468
14,472
Doghouse
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Can gagf
My opinion on the booing is it should only be directed at the umpires after a poor decision or at a player after staging or rough conduct just for the rest of the game, any other type of continuous serial booing is probably a form of harassment/bullying and frankly the effort needed to actually excessively boo I couldn't be bothered with anyway.
 
Last edited:
Jan 13, 2013
22,964
44,789
AFL Club
West Coast
I would think that a champion of the game (2x Brownlow, 2x Premiership, future Hall of Famer) is considering never playing again because he believes the booing and constant attention is having a detrimental effect on his teammates and the team is a more serious issue than this biased media conspiracy you have concocted. The media has by and large tagged a minority of the eagles crowd who are booing as having racist intentions, just as they have tagged the minority portions of the crowds of every single other crowd that has booed Adam Goodes. No media commentator has said it is purely a West Coast Eagle crowd problem, so how is it biased? Again, literally every single piece of commentary is very careful to point out it is an AFL wide problem, what are you possibly viewing to reach your conclusion? Oh, and do you seriously believe this whole issue is all just a story made up by the media to stick the boot in? Did we really land on the moon?
For starters I'm sick of people bringing up that he's a champion of the game 2 x brownlow medallist etc etc. WTF difference does that make? If it was an average player getting booed out of the game it would be a bit better?
Now if you don't think that the media is using this as an opportunity to stick the boot in to the west coast fans then you're not reading enough, because we've definitely been the main focus of most of the articles/interviews I've seen.
Of course I don't think the story has been made up, but you're really naive if you don't think they manipulate stories to create drama and get more clicks/views/sell more papers which in turn sells more advertisements, which in turn makes them more $$
 

EagleShore

Premiership Player
Feb 25, 2012
3,894
4,234
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Take race out of it.

It's clearly having a serious effect on his well-being. Just on that basis it should stop.
This encapsulates succinctly the conclusion most rational people have been coming to.

For most people booing him, the motivation for doing so is not his skin colour per se. It is also true that the booing of Goodes is inextricably linked to how he has handled, for better or worse, the racial issues over the past few years (the dance, the point at the girl etc.).

Sure many do not like him for a variety of other reasons, but those people must now accept that, given it is affecting him to this degree, it is time to stop and think before you act.

Any resentment people have toward him that motivates them to boo him should be offset by the fact that he does a lot of community development work with Aboriginal youth and apparently he is a genuinely good bloke (aside from the fact he has been a champ of the game).

I believe that he doesn't deserve to be booed every time he goes near the ball. And if you think he does, then you need to at least concede that it is now irrevocably damaging our club's reputation and that of the supporter base. So if you don't stop booing him for empathetic and compassionate reasons, then stop it for selfish reasons (self preservation).

I do not support the banning of booing, nor do I support the banning of booing Goodes (to do so would be counterproductive). Rather, I support society reaching its own conclusions and at least some kind of consensus on such social issues after engaging in a relevant discourse.

P.S. He did not lambaste that girl in the press conference in 2013. He suggested that she is a product of our society/her environment and THAT is what should be the focus. He indeed implored the community to rally around her and educate each other on these issues. Anyone suggesting otherwise should go and re-watch that presser.
 

tumtum

Debutant
Jul 28, 2011
113
128
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Gary Lyon said this on access all areas yesterday.
No he didn't. His words, 'The booing continued, well maybe it re-emerged a bit i recon, it sort of died off for a while'. Did you interpret this as him saying it is only West Coast Eagles fans who are booing Goodes? Or did you watch a different Access All Areas with a different Gary Lyon?
 
Last edited:

tumtum

Debutant
Jul 28, 2011
113
128
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
For starters I'm sick of people bringing up that he's a champion of the game 2 x brownlow medallist etc etc. WTF difference does that make? If it was an average player getting booed out of the game it would be a bit better?
Now if you don't think that the media is using this as an opportunity to stick the boot in to the west coast fans then you're not reading enough, because we've definitely been the main focus of most of the articles/interviews I've seen.
Of course I don't think the story has been made up, but you're really naive if you don't think they manipulate stories to create drama and get more clicks/views/sell more papers which in turn sells more advertisements, which in turn makes them more $$

You asked me to point out what the big issue is in the situation, the fact that he has won 2x Brownlow medals etc. is certainly a reason that it is such a big issue in comparison to if it happened to a guy in some local football league. Would it be any worse? Of course not, and I never said it would be, but it wouldn't be as big an issue as that person doesn't have the same profile as Adam Goodes. Quite simple really.

Cool, I have read fairly extensively and to be honest have hardly even seen the West Coast Eagles mentioned at all. We must read completely different articles! None of the statements made by the AFL, the Swans or the AFLPA have mentioned the Eagles crowd specifically, all have said it is an AFL wide issue.

I'm not sure where I said I don't believe the media manipulate stories to create drama and get more publicity, as it is clearly true. There is a big, big difference to that and you saying that the whole issue of the racial element of the boos is just the media out for a story and to stick the boot in west coast supporters, which I clearly don't agree with but you obviously do.
 
Feb 12, 2009
10,059
1,872
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Perth Wildcats, Swan Districts
Wonder if he's ever apologised to Chris Lewis

Lyon apologized to Lewis on the footy shows many years ago, but Lewis refused to accept the apology because Lyon only wanted to apologize on stage - in public - so as to make himself look the good guy. Lewis refused to shake Lyon's hand when Lyon stuck out his hand. Lewis subsequently reasoned that he didn't accept the apology because he was speaking to Lyon back stage for quite some time before the show started and Lyon didn't once give an apology whilst in a private setting. Hence Lewis deduced that Lyon was playing for the cameras and media, so his apology wasn't sincere.
 
Last edited:

Dugg

Club Legend
Oct 5, 2012
1,650
2,022
AFL Club
West Coast
No he didn't. His words, 'The booing continued, well maybe it re-emerged a bit i recon, it sort of died off for a while'. Did you interpret this as him saying it is only West Coast Eagles fans who are booing Goodes? Or did you watch a different All Access Areas with a different Gary Lyon?
No I didn't watch a different Gary Lyon. Please don't start with immature comments like that. This is a discussion board, not a playground.

Prior to those comments Damian Barrett says that it is an AFL issue, then Lyon butts in and says that it isn't. Says that we have history with Jobe Watson and seem to have some pack mentality when it comes to these issues. He also says something along the lines of I don't know what is wrong with them over in the west.
 

tumtum

Debutant
Jul 28, 2011
113
128
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
No I didn't watch a different Gary Lyon. Please don't start with immature comments like that. This is a discussion board, not a playground.

Prior to those comments Damian Barrett says that it is an AFL issue, then Lyon butts in and says that it isn't. Says that we have history with Jobe Watson and seem to have some pack mentality when it comes to these issues. He also says something along the lines of I don't know what is wrong with them over in the west.

Sorry got a bit worked up. I just rewatched it and Gary Lyons quote that I pointed out before is the first point either of them had on the topic. Later he acknowledged that it has happened at other grounds but thought it was die-ing down but re-emerged on the weekend. I think it would be hard to argue with the fact that the booing was the loudest it had been in a long time on the weekend so kinda hard to disagree with that. States we have history with Jobe Watson - we do have history with Jobe Watson (hardly a groundbreaking comment). And says it looks ugly and reflects poorly on the crowd - again hard to argue with that. And back to your original point, he certainly doesn't say it is only West Coast supporters who are booing Goodes which is what started this little discussion. He does seem to think the West Coast crowd is more unruly than others, but so what? There are journalists who think the Collingwood crowd is more unruly than others. Heck I think the Collingwood crowd is more unruly than others, why does it matter? Unless you are of the opinion that every single crowd in the AFL is equally more unruly than the next, I'm not sure how you can get worked when someone says that ours is the most unruly.

And probably most importantly, even if he had said the booing of Goodes was purely a West Coast problem (which he didn't), who really cares? It is one journalists opinion, there are hundreds of journalists with hundreds of different opinions. I just don't see how it is an issue when we are talking about racism in the AFL.
 

galen

All Australian
May 1, 2006
618
385
Hopetoun
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
North Footscray
I can say with 100% certainty that a portion of the booing is racially motivated, seriously just read this thread and see some of the opinions offered and I'm sure you will come to the same conclusion.

Could you quote from this thread where any poster has admitted to booing Adam Goodes for specifically racially motivated reasons.

So much of your argument is on the proviso that there is a non insignificant portion of the booing crowd from Sunday is racist and are booing with racism in mind. I genuinely don't believe that to be true. I doubt most people in this thread believe that to be true yet its the cornerstone of your whole argument.
 

galen

All Australian
May 1, 2006
618
385
Hopetoun
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
North Footscray
Sure many do not like him for a variety of other reasons, but those people must now accept that, given it is affecting him to this degree, it is time to stop and think before you act.

* milne booed as rapist
* watson booed as a drug cheat
* cousins booed as a junkie
* n riewoldt booed as a chaser of school girls
* judd booed for chicken winging
* l.thomas booed as a diver
* j.selwood booed as a ducker
* b hall booed as a thug
* umpires booed & verbally abused/ every-single-game with the foulest of language... just imagine that for a minute... "YOU GREEN MAGGOTS"

Did anyone stop to think about the feelings of the above after a game? Did the following weeks fans go to themselves..."s**t that guy really got booed hard last week... we should probably lighten up a bit?"

Fair dinkum.

So is this the greatest ever sustained BOO that any player has had in the history of the game so we are having to enter unknown territory to create counter measures to stop the onslaught of the poor highly paid athletes state of mind?
 

Schrodinger

Debutant
Jul 21, 2015
73
193
AFL Club
West Coast
I think you'll find there is a significant logical error in conflating a debate about a flag that was used by a group fighting a war, in part to preserve their "right" to enslave black people, that was brought to a head by a man committing racially motivated mass murder with people booing at the footy. You are back pedalling now because it was a ridiculous line to take. Perhaps Godwin's Law can have a new bedfellow with Schrodinger's Law?

I have no idea why people who boo players at the footy take umbrage to being accused of holding the same values as above murderer by smug talking heads :rolleyes:

I think Hanlon's razor is a far better way of looking at what has gone on but it's much less juicy than hysterical condemnation. Maybe one day our budding social engineers will work out that forcing a viewpoint down people's throats in the most condescending way possible whilst insulting the s**t out of them is unlikely to garner the desired result.

I love that you went straight for the man when called out too #sobrave

Usually I would consider entering into a sad debate on a forum as inconceivable. I am a fairly shy, passive person in general. However there is something about this thread and the broader issue that I find utterly awful, with the lack of basic human kindness shown towards this man an absolute disgrace. Therefore I have been taking time out of my day to come back to this thread (which then leaves me with a knot in my guts after reading the casual racism on display) to try understand the rationality behind the hounding of Goodes and maybe (although unlikely) add to a chorus of disapproval which may at least help temper some of the inexplicable hatred some have for this man.

I wasn't going to respond to your post however decided I couldn't let it stand as you misuse some big words so may give the impression to some that you have expertly picked apart my argument. However in the great straw man tradition of this thread, you have muddied my original point, which cannot go unremarked upon.

So now let me address this car crash of a post point by point. It reads like something written in a foreign language which was entered into Google Translate, so I have had to re-read it several times to try to work out what you are talking about.

1. Next time please look up the meaning of the word "conflate" before you use it in a sentence (For your reference, here is the definition - combine (two or more sets of information, texts, ideas, etc.) into one). However you are correct at least in this sense - if I was insane enough to conflate the confederate flag issue with people booing a football player, particularly if I were to draw parallels between the relative seriousness of each, I would indeed be rather insane.

2. Rather than conflate, I drew an analogy (or even, a "parallel" would be possibly more accurate). You have listed a handful of details associated with the confederate flag controversy and quite rightly pointed out that none of these details have anything to do with booing a football player. There is one detail and one detail only where I thought there was a potentially instructive parallel. Let me write it out so as to straw man proof my point -

a) Despite many people in North Carolina quite rightly pointing out that they didn't perceive the flag as racist, they acknowledged that for black people, it was perceived as a symbol of racism, so politicians and lawmakers agreed to stop flying it.

b) Despite many footy fans quite rightly pointing out that they are booing Goodes because he is a "flog", with the vast majority of these fans not overtly or consciously racist, I thought we could use what happened in North Carolina as a correlate. Perhaps those booing can make the same realisation, that this booing will naturally be perceived as racist because of the surrounding context, whether the boos are racially motivated or not. Therefore, because this booing (like the confederate flag) is a likely source of emotional suffering for Goodes and other aboriginal people, the decent and humane thing would be not to boo Goodes on such a systematic level.

Now back to your "argument".

3. When you look up "conflate", also look up "back pedaling" and then point out any statement I have made which is in accord with your new-found understanding of the meaning of this expression.

4. I have tried re-reading your message to make sense of your use of Godwin's Law and Hanlon's Razor. Whilst I definitely think Hanlon's Razor is behind your post, I can't for the life of me find where I referenced Hitler or Nazis...

5. Your last line was my second favourite. In the swirling maelstrom of ad hominem that is this Adam Goodes debate, you have taken particular umbrage at my own (admittedly unflatteringly facetious) piece of ad hominem. Extra irony points considering the position of myself and others is that the particularly nasty, personal and emotionally taxing ad hominem that Adam Goodes is being subjected to is a disgrace. Contrasted again what people like yourself believe they should be able to do to Goodes, I think a facetious post with a joking reference to intelligence (or lack thereof) would be water off a duck's back right?

However I wish to award the inaugural "Big Footy Adam Goodes Debate Straw Man Award" to you for this humdinger of a line -

I have no idea why people who boo players at the footy take umbrage to being accused of holding the same values as above murderer by smug talking heads

For any impartial observer reading this, I wish to direct you back to my original post he is quoting. Note how my original point, which was -

Even though the vast majority of the booers are not racist, for many it appears racist (due to context). Just like most NC citizens are neither racist nor view the confederate flag as racist, black people do, and find it upsetting.

In a dazzling, straw man sleight of hand move, this above point has been changed to -

I am saying that people who boo Adam Goodes hold the same values as the Charleston church shooter who killed 9 people in cold blood

I wish I had the ability to do a slow-mo reply as it was seamless and only reveals its mastery on repeat viewing.

Hope that clarifies things somewhat.
 

Nigellathechook

Debutant
Aug 10, 2013
132
134
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
South Fremantle
* milne booed as rapist
* watson booed as a drug cheat
* cousins booed as a junkie
* n riewoldt booed as a chaser of school girls
* judd booed for chicken winging
* l.thomas booed as a diver
* j.selwood booed as a ducker
* b hall booed as a thug
* umpires booed & verbally abused/ every-single-game with the foulest of language... just imagine that for a minute... "YOU GREEN MAGGOTS"

Did anyone stop to think about the feelings of the above after a game? Did the following weeks fans go to themselves..."s**t that guy really got booed hard last week... we should probably lighten up a bit?"

Fair dinkum.

So is this the greatest ever sustained BOO that any player has had in the history of the game so we are having to enter unknown territory to create counter measures to stop the onslaught of the poor highly paid athletes state of mind?
 

tumtum

Debutant
Jul 28, 2011
113
128
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Could you quote from this thread where any poster has admitted to booing Adam Goodes for specifically racially motivated reasons.

So much of your argument is on the proviso that there is a non insignificant portion of the booing crowd from Sunday is racist and are booing with racism in mind. I genuinely don't believe that to be true. I doubt most people in this thread believe that to be true yet its the cornerstone of your whole argument.
Why from this thread? A guy was kicked out from the game for yelling at Goodes to, 'go back to the zoo', and then tried to justify his actions by saying it wasn't racist. I think it's fair to assume he was a member of the crowd that was booing Goodes yeh? I'm not sure how you think racism works but not even the biggest bogan would come out and say, 'I am a racist and I booed Goodes because I believe he is inferior to me'.

I am not saying they all specifically have racism in mind but there is undoubtedly an element of racism to a portion of it (how big is impossible to know). The fact is that people state that he won AOTY, pointed out at a girl yelling a racist taunt at him and that he 'intimidated' the crowd with his war dance as reasons they boo him. The booing started when these issues all occurred so for people to say that everyone only boos him because he is a 'flog' on the field is quite clearly incorrect. The issues mentioned all involve race and all ruffled plenty of feathers in Australia. As Gillon McLachan said today, it is impossible to separate this issue from race. Goodes speaks out about aboriginal issues that people prefer not to talk about, he does it in a way that is sometimes controversial. So when some people are booing they are telling themselves that it is because he 'dives for free kicks' (no worse than countless other players in the game), but no doubt many of them also don't like him for the stance he takes off field and the diving/sniping is a convenient excuse. This is why he is the only player in the history of the game that is the subject of boos for every possession he gets for over a year and counting.

I'm not sure if this will convince you, but ask yourself this; When people state that him getting AOTY was undeserved, and that this is a reason that they are booing him, what are they trying to say by this? The award was given to him mainly for his work off the field in aboriginal welfare. More specifically for co-founding the Go Foundation to help aboriginal kids afford and get through school. Sounds pretty deserving to me if you believe closing the gap between aboriginals and white Australians is a good cause.
 

WCE_phil

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 14, 2009
13,147
21,981
perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Why from this thread? A guy was kicked out from the game for yelling at Goodes to, 'go back to the zoo', and then tried to justify his actions by saying it wasn't racist. I think it's fair to assume he was a member of the crowd that was booing Goodes yeh? I'm not sure how you think racism works but not even the biggest bogan would come out and say, 'I am a racist and I booed Goodes because I believe he is inferior to me'.

You can tell Adam Goodes to go back to the zoo without it being racist. You just have to tell him to go back to the football zoo of protected species. I'm sure we can make him a nice soundproof enclosure where he can't hear any booing. I think in reality you want to make it as much of a drawcard as possible though so probably best to keep him in an area near where they kept juddy pre chicken wing and definitely keep him near hodgey too. Fyfe's enclosure doesn't need to be all that big as i hear he doesn't like running all that much due to a sore leg. Jobe can have a really large enclosure because of how brave he is. We need to remember however that any inoculations need to be given in needles where what is in them can't be traced and all documentation of anything injected must be immediately incinerated because we'd hate to be able to prove what was in there. Oh and when all the other exhibited specimens decide to pick on goodesy make sure you have his mums phone number handy so she can come along and tell them all off.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back