Opinion Adam Goodes

[Nickos66]

Someone on the main board said it just looks like mass bullying.

That's what it comes down to at the end of the day, they wouldn't do anything of the sort if they walked past him on the street, quite the opposite I'd wager. Mob mentality rules and it doesn't think twice about the consequences of it's actions in the cold light of day. It's been going on for what feels like forever, with no ending in sight. Would people continue to boo if it went public he'd been in contact with Beyond Blue or ActBelongCommit for example?

 

[Sweetback]

Children Overboard was the beginning, then encouraging the rampant 'patriotism' (read 'nationalism') surrounding Australia Day. How many of us here over 35 remember Australia Day as anything more than a barbie in the back yard with some friends / family? None of this ridiculous Aussie flag merch where the more you've got, the more you're proving how much ya f**ken love Straya mate. Pair o' flags flying off ya car windas, ya Aussie flag boardies and "STFU and stop spoilin our day ya f**ken towel heads and whingin blackfellas."

I hate where this country is going. Acceptance and diversity is a long way away from where we are in 2015.

Tampa was the flashpoint that galvanised it. Howard was behind Kim Beasley then in the polls and Howard used those kids to convince a nation to sell its soul.

 

[Nothing]

riteo or Seppo can we take the Goodes talk out of this thread into a separate one. It's generally been a great discussion and feel it warrants it's own thread rather than (the extremely) off-topic media thread.

 

[E Shed]

How many of us here over 35 remember Australia Day as anything more than a barbie in the back yard with some friends / family?

Yep, that is one thing that has been really freaking me out lately. And Anzac day. I walked into a shop the day before Anzac day this year and the young girl asked me if I was going to the service tomorrow. I said what service not really even realising it was Anzac day and she told me how all her friends would be going to the dawn service.
War and Patriotism. Thanks Howard and Abbott.

 

[Righteo]

aaaand we're back, thread is a go!


A sensitive, polarising issue that seems to be gaining all kinds of momentum every week. Politics and sport can often have pretty ugly results when they clash, don't make me regret making this!

Not going to outline any ground rules in addition to the Freo board rules, mostly I can't be bothered and also I accept that this is something that will produce heated debate and imposing a rigid set of rules will likely have an adverse effect.

We are, in my humble opinion, the most open-minded supporters going around, hopefully this thread reflects that...

 

[Scatter]

I find it hard to fathom why anybody would even want to boo, let alone how it's becoming more and more prominent. Wouldn't being branded racist simply by association with the rest of the group mentality be enough to deter most? You might not be racist but continuing on doing it with the rest of the hird certainly paints you as one.

And on another note.. Take race out of it completely for a moment. What possible justification could people have to continue on with something like this each week - to aim and to make a concerted effort to make an individual feel like s**t. It's clearly having a profound effect behind closed doors on his wellbeing and mental health as a human being. Why do a group of bullies taunt an individual more confidently when in a group. There's simply no moral higher ground for people like this, you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

Thank you, I was trying to put my thoughts into words but now I don't have to, you expressed what I wanted to say perfectly.

 

[AAACockburn]

 

[Belnakor]

Not surprised the white coast Eagles bood him to be honest

 

[Alfonz]

It's clearly a race issue. People continuing with all the bullshit facades like "he's a flog" and so forth to excuse their behaviour ... they are either very mean spirited dimwits following a pack mentality, and/or racist.

And if anyone continues to boo after all that has been said about this, and how it is felt as racist by the likes of Goodes and Jetta ... then they can only be deemed racist as far as I'm concerned. There might have been a time that they could claim the idiot sheep ground, but nobody should be afforded that excuse any more.

 

[Steinfreo]

In a way the eagles have done us all a favor. This stuff needs to be talked out, both sides need to find out what the other feels on the inside. This stuff is potentially more powerful than the Rudd apology.

The crowd interaction between Goodes/Jetta gave me absolute goosebumps. That sort of thing just does not happen to often. It reminds me of this a bit.



What they did is very masculine, threatening and warrior like. It is an aspect of Aboriginal culture that we don't get to see much of and honestly its a bit scary. What Adam and Lewis did IS good for Australia in the long run in my opinion.

 

[benfica]

Yours is the only fan base who has an active mega thread on how much they hate their own reigning Brownlow medallist, and actively abused a 21 year old footballer into retiring. Remember what Daniel Kerr's sister said about Tom Swift?

BTW what did kerr's sister say about tom swift

 

[mike91]

Yours is the only fan base who has an active mega thread on how much they hate their own reigning Brownlow medallist, and actively abused a 21 year old footballer into retiring. Remember what Daniel Kerr's sister said about Tom Swift?

What was said?

 

[coldlunch]

There are people who boo Goodes because he is a pratt. There are people who boo Goodes because he is seen as a recipient of and spokesperson for "aboriginal privilege". So unless you think it's fine to be seen as supporting the latter don't do the former.

Even though your reasons may be genuine by joining in you are giving tacit approval to the racial overtones of the booing.

The Goodes issue has outgrown the pantomime booing that Boomer, Crowley et al get.

^ truth.

the whole thing is really bumming me out. it's embarrassing as an AFL fan.

even if only 5% of the people booing are doing it because of race-related issues, eg they don't approve of him standing up against racism in the AFL fanbases, the other 95% who have jumped on because they think he's either a snipe or a sook are just giving voice and support to that first 5%. you have to ask why it is that so many find what Goodes has said to be more deplorable than what the 5% have said.

 

[Clems Knee]

It's clearly a race issue. People continuing with all the bullshit facades like "he's a flog" and so forth to excuse their behaviour ... they are either very mean spirited dimwits following a pack mentality, and/or racist.

And if anyone continues to boo after all that has been said about this, and how it is felt as racist by the likes of Goodes and Jetta ... then they can only be deemed racist as far as I'm concerned. There might have been a time that they could claim the idiot sheep ground, but nobody should be afforded that excuse any more.

Yep.
At best it's groupthink. Goodes is a flog - he should pull his head in. If we boo him we'll put him off his game.
But there is no thought as to why they feel threatened by his behaviour, except to blame everything on the war dance (which happened well down the track from the first booing).

It's the downside of having a crowd act as one (even when there were plenty of Eagles fans not involved with the booing). The crowd acts as a mob, with classic bullying behaviour. Safety in anonymity, conformity to a behaviour that is unacceptable. We could have been at Nuremburg. (Godwin's Law!). It doesn't matter what the individual's professed reasons for booing are, the end result is the same - a bullying, demeaning group behaviour with (in this case) racist drivers.

I hope the spotlight shone on the Eagles fans has an effect in coming games. When I say something stupid at the footy (it happens!) the bloke behind me tells me to pull my head in. I hope fans across Australia do the same with any racist or racially driven behaviour such as booing Goodes. In anti bullying language it's known as having a defender instead of just bystanders.

 

[Mockcockpit]

In a way the eagles have done us all a favor. This stuff needs to be talked out, both sides need to find out what the other feels on the inside. This stuff is potentially more powerful than the Rudd apology.

The crowd interaction between Goodes/Jetta gave me absolute goosebumps. That sort of thing just does not happen to often. It reminds me of this a bit.

View attachment 157154

What they did is very masculine, threatening and warrior like. It is an aspect of Aboriginal culture that we don't get to see much of and honestly its a bit scary. What Adam and Lewis did IS good for Australia in the long run in my opinion.

Love this photo, Tommie Smith has the glove on his right hand and John Carlos on his left. The story goes that on the way out to the medal ceremony they realised that one of them had forgotten to bring their gloves and the late Peter Norman suggested one wear the right glove and the other the left glove.

 

[Frank J Moose]

Love this photo, Tommie Smith has the glove on his right hand and John Carlos on his left. The story goes that on the way out to the medal ceremony they realised that one of them had forgotten to bring their gloves and the late Peter Norman suggested one wear the right glove and the other the left glove.

And Peter Norman's support ended up costing him a fair bit on Australian Athletic circles.

And he never regretted it at all.

 

[ydraw]

There are people who boo Goodes because he is a pratt. There are people who boo Goodes because he is seen as a recipient of and spokesperson for "aboriginal privilege".

Yep, no such thing as aboriginal privilege in Australia.

That is why we don't have, as a matter of law, a separate welfare system that applies only to people of aboringinal descent.

And obviously white people on the dole are completely out of order to complain about an aboriginal bloke who earns $500,000+ a year whinging about how hard done by he is.

 

[poshman]

Agree that the booing on the weekend was over the top and ugly.

What I'm interested in is the fact that Goodes was not reprimanded about the spear dance thing. Ok not saying I think he should have been and have since read into it a bit and asked some aboriginal mates about it. All of whom think Harry O doing it was stupid. When I asked them what it meant it symbolised they all said (this is what they said don't ATTACK the messenger) it was a warrior thing with the meaning of 'threat, kill, defeat in war, conquer'. I personally can handle the Haka (though some more aggressive forms have been criticised every now and again) and loved as a young guy watching eales and our formidable forward pack stare down the all blacks during it. The haka though is performed at the other team. The dance iirc had various meanings but in general the context is we will defeat you, kill you and in some cases taste or eat you. In that case I think it's full on if thought about but at least in that context the wallabies could Fire back and answer in game.

If a non aboriginal was to symbolise throwing a spear into a crowd or point a gun or do a similar threatening gesture would that be acceptable?

I'm not making statements here I'm just asking genuine questions.

When I played juniors I think U16 the yellow card system had just been brought in. We played a particular team which was made up of almost entirely indigenous players. I spent three quarters getting little rib punches and the occasional errant kick whatever. During that time I was called 'white monkey, white f*#k, white bastard etc' pretty much every time I was in a contest. Nothing was done and the umps ignored it. Early into the fourth I copped a blatant kick/trip as I tried to evade.. Yelled out 'bastard' was given immediate yellow as the player complained it was racist and the ump said I just can't say those things.

I was spoken to by the umpires coach after the game and when I told him what had been said to me all game he said 'what they said isn't racist etc etc'

Again I'll reiterate that the Goodes booing made me turn the game off and I gave it to some eagle mates who went to the game. Disgraceful. Just interested what would happen if an Australian with white skin did something similarly as aggressive, would there be consequences? Given the actual meaning of the gesture and taking race out of it simply going on meaning.... Is not throwing a spear more aggressive etc than giving the bird?

Suffice to say I've gad some very interesting and so far open minded not accusatory conversations over the last 8 weeks. I hope that continues....

 

[ydraw]

If a non aboriginal was to symbolise throwing a spear into a crowd or point a gun or do a similar threatening gesture would that be acceptable?

Should try it out next week. Celebrate your English cultural heritage by pretending to fire your musket at any/or aboriginal or Irish players in the opposition team and see how much the AFL values cultural diversity.

 

[clogged]

What was said?

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/14456843/fickle-fans-turn-on-tom/

 

[GilG]

Oh boy, I'm speechless. I'm in my sixties and when I was a lot younger thought they were lazy bludgers but woke up to myself some thirty years ago but articles like this still bring the bad message home. Adam is trying to stick up for his people, good luck to him.

Thank you SO much for posting the Matilda Press piece. What was stated in this piece not only illuminates the issues but also highlights for me, what I must live with and explain in my own country and, as I'm doing here, outside the U.S. as an African-American.

This whole thread has been a fascinating and enlightening discussion and whether I agree or disagree with what's been posted, I respect all of your opinions.

Before donating my two cents on the matter, please allow me to quote one of my heroes, 19th Century African-American abolitionist and author, Frederick Douglass, who in an 1857 speech stated, "Without struggle, there is no progress."

Adam Goodes's struggle is one I easily and readily identify with. It's the struggle of everyone who is in the minority in their respective land, whether it be based on ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation and lives by the rules established by force and perpetuated and maintained by a dominant majority. Here in the U.S. some of even the most well-intentioned and kind-hearted of my countrymen honestly believe America is now in some idyllic, "post-racial" era because seven years ago, we freely elected an African-American president. Like your Tony Abbott says about Aboriginals, some of my fellow Americans want African-Americans and members of other historically oppressed or economically and socially disadvantaged minority groups to "move on."

How can we in America do this when police violence against my people — particularly, my ethnic brothers — is at an all-time high? I can guarantee you it's not because we're all criminals or suspects. How can we move on when these difficult questions remain? Why do hate crimes such as the recent massacre of nearly a dozen black parishioners worshipping in their own church by a white supremacist gunman still take place? Why, when elected officials in various states (most of them white) courageously move to retire what to many people is an offensive symbol of slavery and hatred, such as the Confederate flag, some diehards ferociously fight to keep it? As recently as a couple of weeks ago, when President Obama visited Oklahoma, protesters showed up brandishing that flag — just as racist mobs in the southern U.S. 1960s did when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. led peaceful human rights marches — in a stinging sign of disrespect and loathing. In a supposedly democratic country, why does one of the two major political parties in many states move to enact legislation to make it more difficult to register to vote and cast ballots?

Back to Adam Goodes and why some fans continue to boo and berate him.

I wouldn't even pretend to know better than my Aussie brothers and sisters of all colors and backgrounds.

But I have an idea: Maybe what these people are booing isn't Goodes's occasional playing for the free kick, his Brownlows, his premiership medals, his team's long record of success, his alerting MCG security to the racist taunts of a teenaged Collingwood supporter, or his being named Australian of the Year.

Maybe they're booing in fear of what Goodes is forcing them to confront and acknowledge and what he is challenging them to re-think their views about, when he articulately and authentically highlights perfectly legitimate, yet under-addressed Aboriginal Australian grievances. Maybe they're booing Goodes because, whether through speeches or symbolic gestures on the footy oval, he has the audacity and temerity to publicly air them. That's exactly what happened — as at least one previous poster correctly alluded to — to Muhammad Ali and African-American Olympic medalists Tommie Smith and John Carlos, who raised black-gloved fists at the 1968 Games in Mexico City, to protest institutional American racism.

It's human nature for people in power or privilege to bristle when another makes them feel uncomfortable and to resist when someone agitates for change, because it's all too easy to keep the status quo and avoid awkward, meaningful dialogue. And God forbid should someone pose a threat to their lofty social and economic status by calling out their views as outdated and fading away.

But in human history, only those brave individuals who dare to cause those in power and privilege some discomfort help bring about transformative changes for the betterment of their respective societies.

For all those reasons, Goodesy should be applauded, not booed.

For anyone who'd like to further delve into Frederick Douglass's speech I referenced, here's a link: http://www.blackpast.org/1857-frederick-douglass-if-there-no-struggle-there-no-progress

 

[Tazmania]

Thank you SO much for posting the Matilda Press piece. What was stated in this piece not only illuminates the issues but also highlights for me, what I must live with and explain in my own country and, as I'm doing here, outside the U.S. as an African-American.

This whole thread has been a fascinating and enlightening discussion and whether I agree or disagree with what's been posted, I respect all of your opinions.

Before donating my two cents on the matter, please allow me to quote one of my heroes, 19th Century African-American abolitionist and author, Frederick Douglass, who in an 1857 speech stated, "Without struggle, there is no progress."

Adam Goodes's struggle is one I easily and readily identify with. It's the struggle of everyone who is in the minority in their respective land, whether it be based on ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation and lives by the rules established by force and perpetuated and maintained by a dominant majority. Here in the U.S. some of even the most well-intentioned and kind-hearted of my countrymen honestly believe America is now in some idyllic, "post-racial" era because seven years ago, we freely elected an African-American president. Like your Tony Abbott says about Aboriginals, some of my fellow Americans want African-Americans and members of other historically oppressed or economically and socially disadvantaged minority groups to "move on."

How can we in America do this when police violence against my people — particularly, my ethnic brothers — is at an all-time high? I can guarantee you it's not because we're all criminals or suspects. How can we move on when these difficult questions remain? Why do hate crimes such as the recent massacre of nearly a dozen black parishioners worshipping in their own church by a white supremacist gunman still take place? Why, when elected officials in various states (most of them white) courageously move to retire what to many people is an offensive symbol of slavery and hatred, such as the Confederate flag, some diehards ferociously fight to keep it? As recently as a couple of weeks ago, when President Obama visited Oklahoma, protesters showed up brandishing that flag — just as racist mobs in the southern U.S. 1960s did when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. led peaceful human rights marches — in a stinging sign of disrespect and loathing. In a supposedly democratic country, why does one of the two major political parties in many states move to enact legislation to make it more difficult to register to vote and cast ballots?

Back to Adam Goodes and why some fans continue to boo and berate him.

I wouldn't even pretend to know better than my Aussie brothers and sisters of all colors and backgrounds.

But I have an idea: Maybe what these people are booing isn't Goodes's occasional playing for the free kick, his Brownlows, his premiership medals, his team's long record of success, his alerting MCG security to the racist taunts of a teenaged Collingwood supporter, or his being named Australian of the Year.

Maybe they're booing in fear of what Goodes is forcing them to confront and acknowledge and what he is challenging them to re-think their views about, when he articulately and authentically highlights perfectly legitimate, yet under-addressed Aboriginal Australian grievances. Maybe they're booing Goodes because, whether through speeches or symbolic gestures on the footy oval, he has the audacity and temerity to publicly air them. That's exactly what happened — as at least one previous poster correctly alluded to — to Muhammad Ali and African-American Olympic medalists Tommie Smith and John Carlos, who raised black-gloved fists at the 1968 Games in Mexico City, to protest institutional American racism.

It's human nature for people in power or privilege to bristle when another makes them feel uncomfortable and to resist when someone agitates for change, because it's all too easy to keep the status quo and avoid awkward, meaningful dialogue. And God forbid should someone pose a threat to their lofty social and economic status by calling out their views as outdated and fading away.

But in human history, only those brave individuals who dare to cause those in power and privilege some discomfort help bring about transformative changes for the betterment of their respective societies.

For all those reasons, Goodesy should be applauded, not booed.

For anyone who'd like to further delve into Frederick Douglass's speech I referenced, here's a link: http://www.blackpast.org/1857-frederick-douglass-if-there-no-struggle-there-no-progress

Well said Gil. I was thinking the same but have struggled to find the words....I guess that's why you're a writer and I'm not

In addition here's an article I read that had been linked on the Sydney board. https://newmatilda.com/2014/11/13/punters-guide-not-getting-defensive-about-adam-goodes-truth-bombs

Very good read and I wonder what a difference it would make would we all have to walk a mile in Adam's shoes.

 

[ImperialPurple]

But I have an idea: Maybe what these people are booing isn't Goodes's occasional playing for the free kick, his Brownlows, his premiership medals, his team's long record of success, his alerting MCG security to the racist taunts of a teenaged Collingwood supporter, or his being named Australian of the Year.

Maybe they're booing in fear of what Goodes is forcing them to confront and acknowledge and what he is challenging them to re-think their views about, when he articulately and authentically highlights perfectly legitimate, yet under-addressed Aboriginal Australian grievances. Maybe they're booing Goodes because, whether through speeches or symbolic gestures on the footy oval, he has the audacity and temerity to publicly air them. That's exactly what happened — as at least one previous poster correctly alluded to — to Muhammad Ali and African-American Olympic medalists Tommie Smith and John Carlos, who raised black-gloved fists at the 1968 Games in Mexico City, to protest institutional American racism.

It's human nature for people in power or privilege to bristle when another makes them feel uncomfortable and to resist when someone agitates for change, because it's all too easy to keep the status quo and avoid awkward, meaningful dialogue. And God forbid should someone pose a threat to their lofty social and economic status by calling out their views as outdated and fading away.

Nailed it in these words here GilG. This is exactly what it's about. White priviledge - and a 'blackfella' who has the audacity to point it out, and ask for equality for his people.

 

[rodney hoo]

Thank you SO much for posting the Matilda Press piece. What was stated in this piece not only illuminates the issues but also highlights for me, what I must live with and explain in my own country and, as I'm doing here, outside the U.S. as an African-American.

This whole thread has been a fascinating and enlightening discussion and whether I agree or disagree with what's been posted, I respect all of your opinions.

Before donating my two cents on the matter, please allow me to quote one of my heroes, 19th Century African-American abolitionist and author, Frederick Douglass, who in an 1857 speech stated, "Without struggle, there is no progress."

Adam Goodes's struggle is one I easily and readily identify with. It's the struggle of everyone who is in the minority in their respective land, whether it be based on ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation and lives by the rules established by force and perpetuated and maintained by a dominant majority. Here in the U.S. some of even the most well-intentioned and kind-hearted of my countrymen honestly believe America is now in some idyllic, "post-racial" era because seven years ago, we freely elected an African-American president. Like your Tony Abbott says about Aboriginals, some of my fellow Americans want African-Americans and members of other historically oppressed or economically and socially disadvantaged minority groups to "move on."

How can we in America do this when police violence against my people — particularly, my ethnic brothers — is at an all-time high? I can guarantee you it's not because we're all criminals or suspects. How can we move on when these difficult questions remain? Why do hate crimes such as the recent massacre of nearly a dozen black parishioners worshipping in their own church by a white supremacist gunman still take place? Why, when elected officials in various states (most of them white) courageously move to retire what to many people is an offensive symbol of slavery and hatred, such as the Confederate flag, some diehards ferociously fight to keep it? As recently as a couple of weeks ago, when President Obama visited Oklahoma, protesters showed up brandishing that flag — just as racist mobs in the southern U.S. 1960s did when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. led peaceful human rights marches — in a stinging sign of disrespect and loathing. In a supposedly democratic country, why does one of the two major political parties in many states move to enact legislation to make it more difficult to register to vote and cast ballots?

Back to Adam Goodes and why some fans continue to boo and berate him.

I wouldn't even pretend to know better than my Aussie brothers and sisters of all colors and backgrounds.

But I have an idea: Maybe what these people are booing isn't Goodes's occasional playing for the free kick, his Brownlows, his premiership medals, his team's long record of success, his alerting MCG security to the racist taunts of a teenaged Collingwood supporter, or his being named Australian of the Year.

Maybe they're booing in fear of what Goodes is forcing them to confront and acknowledge and what he is challenging them to re-think their views about, when he articulately and authentically highlights perfectly legitimate, yet under-addressed Aboriginal Australian grievances. Maybe they're booing Goodes because, whether through speeches or symbolic gestures on the footy oval, he has the audacity and temerity to publicly air them. That's exactly what happened — as at least one previous poster correctly alluded to — to Muhammad Ali and African-American Olympic medalists Tommie Smith and John Carlos, who raised black-gloved fists at the 1968 Games in Mexico City, to protest institutional American racism.

It's human nature for people in power or privilege to bristle when another makes them feel uncomfortable and to resist when someone agitates for change, because it's all too easy to keep the status quo and avoid awkward, meaningful dialogue. And God forbid should someone pose a threat to their lofty social and economic status by calling out their views as outdated and fading away.

But in human history, only those brave individuals who dare to cause those in power and privilege some discomfort help bring about transformative changes for the betterment of their respective societies.

For all those reasons, Goodesy should be applauded, not booed.

For anyone who'd like to further delve into Frederick Douglass's speech I referenced, here's a link: http://www.blackpast.org/1857-frederick-douglass-if-there-no-struggle-there-no-progress

Excellent response mate, your right there scared of what Adam is pointing out to them, they find it hard to except the knowledge and learn, as I said earlier it took me half my life to understand their plight.

Re your president, was just saying to the wife a week ago how when his term is finished that I hope he doesn't just fade away. He's young got plenty still to offer and without the restraints of office could make a massive difference to the world re peace and harmony. Hopefully he will be able to move on and lead not unlike Nelson Mandella did in South Africa.

All the best, go Freo.

 

[beetz]

So this whole time opposition teams have been booing Ballantyne because he is aboriginal?