Universal Love Not Boo-ing Goodes

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Slippery Pete said:
Ridiculous. Of course it matters.

Right there, you've just said that it doesn't matter if somebody is falsely accused of being racist.

Why are you, and some others, so comfortable with this definition of racism? You're saying that there is no accepted definition, it's all up to how the victim interprets it.

What if Goodes starts interpreting bad umpiring as racism? Do we go along with that as well?

I don't understand why you're happy to let one individual control the entire narrative for a nation in which this so called "racist" act (booing) has never, ever, not ONCE, had a historical racist precedent.
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The reason I have suggested in this unique case that it 'doesn't matter if your reason for booing is racist or not' is because there is clearly an undercurrent of racism among SOME who are against Goodes here.

It doesn't take a genius to see that he wasn't booed to this extent before he 'took a stand'. It also doesn't take a genius to scan social media and see the reasons being given for booing by the ignorant morons such as 'he's just a flog' and 'he's a ****wit'.

Ask yourself, 'why are these people suddenly so compelled to call Goodes a flog or a ****wit? Is it because of any on-field stuff? No, it isn't. Is it because of the way he approached the racial abuse being dished out to him by a 13 year old? Probably partly yes. Is it because he then went on to win Australian of the Year? Probably partly yes. Is it because since these events he has been quite outspoken about racial issues in this country? Again, partly yes. Is it because he did the whole war dance thing? Maybe partly yes.

There's a huge amount of 'get back in your box, you're just a footy player who doesn't deserve a voice' about this. Is that racism? Well I'm not 100% sure, but I can sure as hell understand why Adam Goodes and the Aboriginal Community at large would view it that way. If you can't at least acknowledge that, then I can't help you.

By joining in with the booing, you're joining in with something that Adam Goodes, the Aboriginal Community, the AFL and the AFLPA are telling you is potentially racist, and is unacceptable. If there are people out there who still wish to engage in the activity despite all of that, they're either immature troublemakers, morons, or ignorant bigots.

As for booing a footballer never having a racist precedent, well I really don't think there's ever been an Aboriginal player named Australian of the Year who has utilised that platform to highlight racial issues in this country before mate, so yes, it is unprecedented. If you don't believe racism is a problem in this country, that's a whole separate issue (I don't believe you are saying that though). Goodes hasn't highlighted anything that wasn't real - Australia is an extremely racist country. Extremely. So he highlights this, explains the passion he has for eradicating this, and then starts getting booed. What's the guy going to think? "Ah s**t, this must be a 10 year delayed reaction to me sliding in and diving and stuff. Yeah, that's why they're booing all of a sudden. No dramas."

Is everyone who boos Adam Goodes doing so because they are racist and don't like the colour of his skin and think he should be on a plantation? Of course not, that's far too extreme. All I'm saying is, it's just such a sensitive issue that you're an absolute dick if you associate yourself with this behaviour in any way right now. There's clearly an element of 'get back in your box' about this, and it's easy to understand how that can be interpreted as racism, rightly or wrongly. That's enough to make any semi-intelligent, empathetic person want to stop booing, in my book.
 
huludicidal said:
The reason I have suggested in this unique case that it 'doesn't matter if your reason for booing is racist or not' is because there is clearly an undercurrent of racism among SOME who are against Goodes here.

It doesn't take a genius to see that he wasn't booed to this extent before he 'took a stand'. It also doesn't take a genius to scan social media and see the reasons being given for booing by the ignorant morons such as 'he's just a flog' and 'he's a ****wit'.

Ask yourself, 'why are these people suddenly so compelled to call Goodes a flog or a ****wit? Is it because of any on-field stuff? No, it isn't. Is it because of the way he approached the racial abuse being dished out to him by a 13 year old? Probably partly yes. Is it because he then went on to win Australian of the Year? Probably partly yes. Is it because since these events he has been quite outspoken about racial issues in this country? Again, partly yes. Is it because he did the whole war dance thing? Maybe partly yes.

There's a huge amount of 'get back in your box, you're just a footy player who doesn't deserve a voice' about this. Is that racism? Well I'm not 100% sure, but I can sure as hell understand why Adam Goodes and the Aboriginal Community at large would view it that way. If you can't at least acknowledge that, then I can't help you.

By joining in with the booing, you're joining in with something that Adam Goodes, the Aboriginal Community, the AFL and the AFLPA are telling you is potentially racist, and is unacceptable. If there are people out there who still wish to engage in the activity despite all of that, they're either immature troublemakers, morons, or ignorant bigots.

As for booing a footballer never having a racist precedent, well I really don't think there's ever been an Aboriginal player named Australian of the Year who has utilised that platform to highlight racial issues in this country before mate, so yes, it is unprecedented. If you don't believe racism is a problem in this country, that's a whole separate issue (I don't believe you are saying that though). Goodes hasn't highlighted anything that wasn't real - Australia is an extremely racist country. Extremely. So he highlights this, explains the passion he has for eradicating this, and then starts getting booed. What's the guy going to think? "Ah s**t, this must be a 10 year delayed reaction to me sliding in and diving and stuff. Yeah, that's why they're booing all of a sudden. No dramas."

Is everyone who boos Adam Goodes doing so because they are racist and don't like the colour of his skin and think he should be on a plantation? Of course not, that's far too extreme. All I'm saying is, it's just such a sensitive issue that you're an absolute dick if you associate yourself with this behaviour in any way right now. There's clearly an element of 'get back in your box' about this, and it's easy to understand how that can be interpreted as racism, rightly or wrongly. That's enough to make any semi-intelligent, empathetic person want to stop booing, in my book.
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Brilliant post. :thumbsu::)
 

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huludicidal said:
The reason I have suggested in this unique case that it 'doesn't matter if your reason for booing is racist or not' is because there is clearly an undercurrent of racism among SOME who are against Goodes here.

It doesn't take a genius to see that he wasn't booed to this extent before he 'took a stand'. It also doesn't take a genius to scan social media and see the reasons being given for booing by the ignorant morons such as 'he's just a flog' and 'he's a ****wit'.

Ask yourself, 'why are these people suddenly so compelled to call Goodes a flog or a ****wit? Is it because of any on-field stuff? No, it isn't. Is it because of the way he approached the racial abuse being dished out to him by a 13 year old? Probably partly yes. Is it because he then went on to win Australian of the Year? Probably partly yes. Is it because since these events he has been quite outspoken about racial issues in this country? Again, partly yes. Is it because he did the whole war dance thing? Maybe partly yes.

There's a huge amount of 'get back in your box, you're just a footy player who doesn't deserve a voice' about this. Is that racism? Well I'm not 100% sure, but I can sure as hell understand why Adam Goodes and the Aboriginal Community at large would view it that way. If you can't at least acknowledge that, then I can't help you.

By joining in with the booing, you're joining in with something that Adam Goodes, the Aboriginal Community, the AFL and the AFLPA are telling you is potentially racist, and is unacceptable. If there are people out there who still wish to engage in the activity despite all of that, they're either immature troublemakers, morons, or ignorant bigots.

As for booing a footballer never having a racist precedent, well I really don't think there's ever been an Aboriginal player named Australian of the Year who has utilised that platform to highlight racial issues in this country before mate, so yes, it is unprecedented. If you don't believe racism is a problem in this country, that's a whole separate issue (I don't believe you are saying that though). Goodes hasn't highlighted anything that wasn't real - Australia is an extremely racist country. Extremely. So he highlights this, explains the passion he has for eradicating this, and then starts getting booed. What's the guy going to think? "Ah s**t, this must be a 10 year delayed reaction to me sliding in and diving and stuff. Yeah, that's why they're booing all of a sudden. No dramas."

Is everyone who boos Adam Goodes doing so because they are racist and don't like the colour of his skin and think he should be on a plantation? Of course not, that's far too extreme. All I'm saying is, it's just such a sensitive issue that you're an absolute dick if you associate yourself with this behaviour in any way right now. There's clearly an element of 'get back in your box' about this, and it's easy to understand how that can be interpreted as racism, rightly or wrongly. That's enough to make any semi-intelligent, empathetic person want to stop booing, in my book.
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Great post. The other thing is if people are joining in with the booing for no apparent reason apart from either not really liking him or just for the fun or theatre of it and are in no way racist, then in actual fact you help create a foil for the people who are doing g it on a racial basis and at the same time you validate it all.
 
Slippery Pete said:
Someone earlier mentioned that the AFL is in unison on this, which is pretty deluded when you consider that Gillon McLachlan didn't even agree that this was racism until he was brow-beaten into a media release yesterday which corrected his original press conference.

The argument that some mental short people are advancing here - including, it has to be said, many people on the AFL gravy train who really don't have any other choice but to toe the hivemind party line or shut up (as Gillon has demonstrated)- is that we should tear up the Racial Discrimination Act. Adam Goodes will now decide, on behalf of 20 million people, what racism is.

I don't accept this. I'll never accept this. And anybody who is interested in a fair and just Australia should not accept this.
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calling people mental short people is a great way of promoting your arguement. If it was so water tight then you wouldnt need to resort to that. The Act refers to what is reasonably likely to be considered racist. This is highly subjective and you have made it clear where you sit. How about having some respect for those with a different view. I think (and it is my opinion only) that the vast majority of people believe that there is a signficant element of racism in all of this.
 
jenny61_99 said:
So calling out a girl for a clearly racist comment aimed at him was the wrong thing to do?
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I've never read anything that proves it was clear racism. Although, I understand why the default position is such, eg Rendell. 30 years ago, a phenomenon of saying "that's rude" to just about anything went through years 6 & 7 at Allenby Gardens Primary School. "I'm going to get the chocolate Snip today", "thats rude". It was non-sensical but the reason is that my very young cousin said it to my brother, who brought it home with him and off to school it went. Obviously it eventually died a natural death. I can see a similar situation where a schoolyard is calling everyone of larger proportions an ape and it's just a trend and it's fun. Or it might be a term the girls mother used to describe her father if he hasn't had shaved for a week and is therefore bandied around the house as a jibe to the old man. The implication that this girl used this term to specifically wound Goodes on the basis of his race has yet to be proven, to my knowledge anyway.

That is a separate issue to whether Goodes himself took offence to it, which of course he did and had every right to do. I repeat, he had every right to. The girl involved learns a valuable lesson and hopefully everybody moves on. Well, except Eddie, who managed to make the situation even worse again.
 
huludicidal said:
The reason I have suggested in this unique case that it 'doesn't matter if your reason for booing is racist or not' is because there is clearly an undercurrent of racism among SOME who are against Goodes here.

It doesn't take a genius to see that he wasn't booed to this extent before he 'took a stand'. It also doesn't take a genius to scan social media and see the reasons being given for booing by the ignorant morons such as 'he's just a flog' and 'he's a ****wit'.

Ask yourself, 'why are these people suddenly so compelled to call Goodes a flog or a ****wit? Is it because of any on-field stuff? No, it isn't. Is it because of the way he approached the racial abuse being dished out to him by a 13 year old? Probably partly yes. Is it because he then went on to win Australian of the Year? Probably partly yes. Is it because since these events he has been quite outspoken about racial issues in this country? Again, partly yes. Is it because he did the whole war dance thing? Maybe partly yes.

There's a huge amount of 'get back in your box, you're just a footy player who doesn't deserve a voice' about this. Is that racism? Well I'm not 100% sure, but I can sure as hell understand why Adam Goodes and the Aboriginal Community at large would view it that way. If you can't at least acknowledge that, then I can't help you.

By joining in with the booing, you're joining in with something that Adam Goodes, the Aboriginal Community, the AFL and the AFLPA are telling you is potentially racist, and is unacceptable. If there are people out there who still wish to engage in the activity despite all of that, they're either immature troublemakers, morons, or ignorant bigots.

As for booing a footballer never having a racist precedent, well I really don't think there's ever been an Aboriginal player named Australian of the Year who has utilised that platform to highlight racial issues in this country before mate, so yes, it is unprecedented. If you don't believe racism is a problem in this country, that's a whole separate issue (I don't believe you are saying that though). Goodes hasn't highlighted anything that wasn't real - Australia is an extremely racist country. Extremely. So he highlights this, explains the passion he has for eradicating this, and then starts getting booed. What's the guy going to think? "Ah s**t, this must be a 10 year delayed reaction to me sliding in and diving and stuff. Yeah, that's why they're booing all of a sudden. No dramas."

Is everyone who boos Adam Goodes doing so because they are racist and don't like the colour of his skin and think he should be on a plantation? Of course not, that's far too extreme. All I'm saying is, it's just such a sensitive issue that you're an absolute dick if you associate yourself with this behaviour in any way right now. There's clearly an element of 'get back in your box' about this, and it's easy to understand how that can be interpreted as racism, rightly or wrongly. That's enough to make any semi-intelligent, empathetic person want to stop booing, in my book.
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Spot on, and it really hits home when it's affecting greats like Micky O'Loughlin, Gavin Wanganeen and our own Andrew McLeod and Troy Bond.
 
Dc9798 said:
Spot on, and it really hits home when it's affecting greats like Micky O'Loughlin, Gavin Wanganeen and our own Andrew McLeod and Troy Bond.
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yeah it's a good point you raise... I mean what would the pro-boo crowd think if our indigenous players are unhappy with the booing of Goodes? would you still do it even if it upset our players?
 
deaneus said:
It's a difficult issue when you read two posters who disagree, and you agree with both of them.

I'm glad jenny61_99 that your son has been brought up correctly, at least in this regard. Also, Abbott, ha what a knob jockey.

I take issue with one thing you've said: "that everyone is equal" - people are not equal, but we need to treat them equally under the eyes of the law. Don't feel I'm criticising you please, it's one of those things that whenever I see it I get grumpy - i have the same problem with the US constitution!
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Let me clarify. That every one SHOULD be seen as equal and if we see them excluded for unfair reasons, we stand up for them and say "hey, this is wrong." Of course I can see that in reality everyone is not treated equally due to circumstance and geography of birth among other reasons. But they damn well should be seen as equals, no matter the colour of their skin, their gender, their sexual preferences, their disability. These things we - and they - have no control over.
 
jenny61_99 said:
But he's absolutely right. Like he was, I was appalled that a child did this. Clearly she's heard adults around her say it. It took a generation before European migrants were accepted here, likewise the Vietnamese. I'm sure Adam thought that this type of racism was typically from ignorant and uneducated adults. That our next generation of children were beyond this. I am flabbergasted that so many cant see this element creeping back (was it ever gone?) into our every day life, ably supported by the fear campaign of the Abbott government. It is up to good decent people to stand up and say enough! I taught my son at a very young age that everyone is equal and that we need to stand up for those who are excluded for whatever reason. Even he sees the treatment of Goodes as appalling and he's just 14.
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He's not right. That girl is not the face of racism in Australia. She's nothing to do with it. Her comment showed her to be stupid and naive more so than racist. The reaction (from everyone) afterwards was as though she was the ringleader of the racist movement instead of a stupid little girl.

Hauled over the coals, evicted from the ground and publicly shamed through national media. Her crime and punishment were ridiculously out of whack.

Now - at the time, not much can be done. Goodes heard the comment and reacted as anyone would. He wouldn't have known how old she was or what ramifications would follow. He just pointed towards the source of the voice. The grandstanding (from everyone) that continued on in the aftermath though is where the criticism comes in. This was not thousands of drunk Collingwood adult fans at Victoria Park hurling racist abuse for two hours. It was one comment in a crowd of tens of thousands of people, akin to spotting a needle in a haystack.

Look - I'm sure your son is a lovely kid but I'm equally sure he probably experimented with swear words as a little tacker and thought he was hilarious, I'm sure at school (out of your ear shot) he has laughed at a racist joke, I'm sure he has gotten in a fight with another kid at one stage... the same as every kid in the world would have. It doesn't mean they're all foul-mouthed, racist, violent people.
 
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Cap said:
The problem you have is Australia is a immigration country, the % of people born overseas is somewhere in the vicinty of 25 -49%, so that would suggest a large portion of our population imports their beliefs and views on the world (well if you talk to some people racism really only happens here and its all the white peoples fault) so of course it hasn't gone anywhere you only have to look at world news and world sport to see that racism is wide spread, it is even the cause of some of the wars we are having.

Which is why I'm often confused when soap boxers call Australia racist, I mean who the hell are they actually talking aboutand have they ever seen whats going on in the world.
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That's like saying "oh look they are all racist too, so it doesn't count/matter that we are". All WE can control is what happens here, in this country. If we see a behaviour that is racist, we call it out. Or at least that's what some of us are doing. Some are choosing to use the "I don't boo him because of his colour, I boo him because he's a flog" statement as an excuse as to why he deserves to be booed. Every. Single. Time. He. Touches. The. Ball? Even though they know he feels it is racist. Even though others in the sport are telling them the same thing. But still they persist. It's a ******* stupid Aussie past time. Someone tells you not to do something, you double your bloody effort.

Look I get that the majority aren't booing him for racist reasons. the problem is, a percentage of people booing him ARE doing it for racist reasons. if you don't want to be tarred with the same brush, don't do it.
 
jenny61_99 said:
That's like saying "oh look they are all racist too, so it doesn't count/matter that we are". All WE can control is what happens here, in this country. If we see a behaviour that is racist, we call it out. Or at least that's what some of us are doing. Some are choosing to use the "I don't boo him because of his colour, I boo him because he's a flog" statement as an excuse as to why he deserves to be booed. Every. Single. Time. He. Touches. The. Ball? Even though they know he feels it is racist. Even though others in the sport are telling them the same thing. But still they persist. It's a ******* stupid Aussie past time. Someone tells you not to do something, you double your bloody effort.

Look I get that the majority aren't booing him for racist reasons. the problem is, a percentage of people booing him ARE doing it for racist reasons. if you don't want to be tarred with the same brush, don't do it.
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Oh I'm not condoning it.

But you are right tell someone not to do it and they'll go twice as hard.
 
jenny61_99 said:
That's like saying "oh look they are all racist too, so it doesn't count/matter that we are". All WE can control is what happens here, in this country. If we see a behaviour that is racist, we call it out. Or at least that's what some of us are doing. Some are choosing to use the "I don't boo him because of his colour, I boo him because he's a flog" statement as an excuse as to why he deserves to be booed. Every. Single. Time. He. Touches. The. Ball? Even though they know he feels it is racist. Even though others in the sport are telling them the same thing. But still they persist. It's a ******* stupid Aussie past time. Someone tells you not to do something, you double your bloody effort.

Look I get that the majority aren't booing him for racist reasons. the problem is, a percentage of people booing him ARE doing it for racist reasons. if you don't want to be tarred with the same brush, don't do it.
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No we can't.
 
headache1 said:
No we can't.
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I think Jenny means, "we" as in ourselves, to wit that we can change what happens in this country because we can change our own behaviour; not through a legal framework et al but by introspection.
 
deaneus said:
I think Jenny means, "we" as in ourselves, to wit that we can change what happens in this country because we can change our own behaviour; not through a legal framework et al but by introspection.
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Of course we can control our own actions, but ultimately, people are going to do what they want to do. Individuals do things that carry far harsher penalties than racism all the time, with little regard for the consequences their actions have for themselves, and others.

Edit - Wow, that reads in a very depressing, defeatist manner, doesn't it?
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
He's not right. That girl is not the face of racism in Australia. She's nothing to do with it. Her comment showed her to be stupid and naive more so than racist. The reaction (from everyone) afterwards was as though she was the ringleader of the racist movement instead of a stupid little girl.

Hauled over the coals, evicted from the ground and publicly shamed through national media. Her crime and punishment were ridiculously out of whack.

Now - at the time, not much can be done. Goodes heard the comment and reacted as anyone would. He wouldn't have known how old she was or what ramifications would follow. He just pointed towards the source of the voice. The grandstanding (from everyone) that continued on in the aftermath though is where the criticism comes in. This was not thousands of drunk Collingwood adult fans at Victoria Park hurling racist abuse for two hours. It was one comment in a crowd of tens of thousands of people, akin to spotting a needle in a haystack.

Look - I'm sure your son is a lovely kid but I'm equally sure he probably experimented with swear words as a little tacker and thought he was hilarious, I'm sure at school (out of your ear shot) he has laughed at a racist joke, I'm sure he has gotten in a fight with another kid at one stage... the same as every kid in the world would have. It doesn't mean they're all foul-mouthed, racist, violent people.
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Yep at the time It was his automatic reaction, but to afterwards name her the face of racism was plain WRONG and reeked of political motivations
 
Due credit & respect for this initiative. But sadly it won't work. Shame, because he is a ripping bloke who deserves better IMO.

However, I would have no issue with you lot booing Tippett (whether or not he plays...). Forgetting any perceived teachery & based on his application & output alone, i'm not too far away from doing it myself.

Good luck on Saturday!
 
fairfooty said:
Spot on article. Note the use of the word 'vilification' in this article which in my view accurately describes the seriousness of this. I'd say an EEO lawyer has written this and as such its also a warning - whether you like the law or not.
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"The AFL Players’ Association and our members call on all football fans to take a stance and report any such behaviour."

They want fans to report other fans booing. Really? Who do we report them to? Security? Police? Their mums?

This is like something off The Bladder website.

You know things have degenerated when you can't tell reality from satire anymore.
 
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