Universal Love Not Boo-ing Goodes

[chazwazza]

Oh I don't know, maybe the massive discrepancy in life expectancy, education standards, youth imprisonment, health, and the fact that a group of people who have been here for 40,000 years can be told are too divisive and provocative when they highlight the damage that has been caused to their community, and the hurt they experience when discrimination occurs.

If we can close the gap, achieve true reconciliation, and not tell someone that has been abused on a constant basis to stop "sooking", we might remove some of the inequities that occur here.

If we've got people at football games that think yelling "**** off back to the zoo" to someone who in the past was considered so below human status that they were classified as apes is not racist, we still have massive issues in society.

"Goodes only plays the victim card". Isn't that part of the point? His campaigning is trying to highlight the hurt that is caused when racism occurs. It causes immense damage.

Just like multi generational unemployment, domestic abuse, alcoholism, drug abuse and the horrors of war can have ongoing effects for generations, so can the same effects of racism etc have debilitating effects on the generations to come.

 

[Mattrox]

Who on earth are you to decide what's significant to their culture?

****. People just aren't getting it. Us making sweeping comments about what is and isn't their culture is effectively taking it away from them. The implication is that we know more about their culture than they do. These comments, harmless to you, slowly strip away their identity.

Besides the gap in health, education and life expectancy. ...... Another key violation of basic human rights has been the institutionalised stripping of cutural and personal identity.

I don't know where the kids that taught Goodes the "war dance" were from. But in my time in the NT I saw kids doing this as a celebration. Often dancing.... you know how kids get in a circle and show their fancy dance moves... when they finished this was a little flourish at the end, then the next kid would dance in the middle. A bit of traditional culture in the midst of modern music.

If anyone actually felt threatened by his imaginay spear, during indigenous round, after a goal was kicked..... geez they must be insecure about other cultures.....

Being racist isn't limited to "hating someone because of race". Telling Goodes how he should act (ie telling him to be more like McLeod or Wanganeen) is racist.

 

[Bosley]

This whole thing is just really sad.

 

[GROTTO]

If he retires because of this he will genuinely make cast himself into a "dead hero" by reiting due to racism which has never officially happened in Australia and would led to worldwide commendation on us (not metaphysically) which IMO will give a lot more strength and weight to his cause and fights that he seens to be on a crusade more so than he enjoys. If that is his passion, then he definitely retire perfmanently due to "RACISM", it would make a statement worldwide, which is where he will get massive massive support and explosure iff (if and only if - for the non-sciences) he maybe plays down other strongly and divisive negative issues about him, ie Invasion day.

 

[Skippos]

Besides the gap in health, education and life expectancy. ...... Another key violation of basic human rights has been the institutionalised stripping of cutural and personal identity.

I don't know where the kids that taught Goodes the "war dance" were from. But in my time in the NT I saw kids doing this as a celebration. Often dancing.... you know how kids get in a circle and show their fancy dance moves... when they finished this was a little flourish at the end, then the next kid would dance in the middle. A bit of traditional culture in the midst of modern music.

If anyone actually felt threatened by his imaginay spear, during indigenous round, after a goal was kicked..... geez they must be insecure about other cultures.....

Being racist isn't limited to "hating someone because of race". Telling Goodes how he should act (ie telling him to be more like McLeod or Wanganeen) is racist.

I've had similar experiences. What Goodes did I've seen numerous times on the lands. Whether or not it was once part of there culture as old mate earlier suggested, what matters is that now it is. Our culture and customs have developed over time, why can't theirs?

Great post, by the way. Agree with it all.

 

[AmericanCrow]

Alright, I just read the article on AFL site and I am at a complete loss on this so someone please help me. Putting aside the reasons (all of them--the good, the bad, the indifferent) for booing a player---how exactly is it that he cannot take the field?

I have not seen or heard that his safety is in jeopardy. I assume that whatever the reasons people are booing him they are not trying to inflict physical injury upon him by storming the field and/or throwing objects at him?

Closest comparison in American sports I can come up with is Jackie Robinson breaking the color line in baseball. Putting aside the abuse he suffered at the hands of opposing players (and some of his teammates) he certainly endured abuse from the crowds. However, if he had caved into that and retaliated (or even worse) quit---my god, that would have handed people who didn't want blacks in baseball a gift.

I truly believe he should be playing if he is physically healthy and am at a loss (from afar) to grasp his reasoning here?

 

[Mattrox]

Alright, I just read the article on AFL site and I am at a complete loss on this so someone please help me. Putting aside the reasons (all of them--the good, the bad, the indifferent) for booing a player---how exactly is it that he cannot take the field?

I have not seen or heard that his safety is in jeopardy. I assume that whatever the reasons people are booing him they are not trying to inflict physical injury upon him by storming the field and/or throwing objects at him?

Closest comparison in American sports I can come up with is Jackie Robinson breaking the color line in baseball. Putting aside the abuse he suffered at the hands of opposing players (and some of his teammates) he certainly endured abuse from the crowds. However, if he had caved into that and retaliated (or even worse) quit---my god, that would have handed people who didn't want blacks in baseball a gift.

I truly believe he should be playing if he is physically healthy and am at a loss (from afar) to grasp his reasoning here?

I believe that what is distressing him is that other Aboriginal people are distressed and at a loss over the situation. People genuinely worried about the hidden racism boiling to the surface. I'm reading it that he's not only carrying his burden.... which in his Australian of the year speech he makes reference to and doesn't back away from, but now he is carrying the burden of others.

In the 70s and 80s Aboriginal players copped vile abuse. The sustained booing is probably opening old wounds in the Indigenous communities, who thought that these attitudes were all but non existent.... Australia hasn't progressed as far as people had thought.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think he's just mentally and emotionally drained from being at the centre of it all.

Plus he's old, probably went on a year too long and is struggling. Once upon a time he may have played anyway and let his football do the talking but he can't now.

 

[AmericanCrow]

I believe that what is distressing him is that other Aboriginal people are distressed and at a loss over the situation. People genuinely worried about the hidden racism boiling to the surface. I'm reading it that he's not only carrying his burden.... which in his Australian of the year speech he makes reference to and doesn't back away from, but now he is carrying the burden of others.

In the 70s and 80s Aboriginal players copped vile abuse. The sustained booing is probably opening old wounds in the Indigenous communities, who thought that these attitudes were all but non existent.... Australia hasn't progressed as far as people had thought.

I don't disagree that he is carrying a burden--I am certain he is. However, there are other indigenous players in the league so it is not just his burden to carry. I also know Jackie carried an entire race on his shoulders.

You just cannot quit---you cannot do that. I am sorry but it hands ammunition over to those who boo for nefarious reasons.

I am in no way minimizing the challenges he or other indigenous players face---but this is not how you deal with it in my opinion.

 

[AmericanCrow]

I think he's just mentally and emotionally drained from being at the centre of it all.

Plus he's old, probably went on a year too long and is struggling. Once upon a time he may have played anyway and let his football do the talking but he can't now.

Yes, but the optics of it is bad. I get if you retire at the end of the season--long career, all that. But he can't do this now. He would give the appearance of letting those with an agenda feel like they have the ability to drive players out.

What happens if they target Eddie next? or Charlie?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think in his mind the optics of him running around struggling to get a kick would be worse.

 

[AmericanCrow]

I think in his mind the optics of him running around struggling to get a kick would be worse.

I get that---but you know what I mean. There is an underlying issue here

 

[Sanders]

Pathetic.

would you like me to pick up your dummy?

 

[Sanders]

Pathetic.

To put it in footy terms, teams employ people to train players a certain way, but they also employ people to study the opposition. It helps on game day to understand the opposition.
I only suggested you do the same. And nowhere did I ever suggest you weren't allowed a different pov. I merely tried to engage you in an adult way and you responded like a child.
Fwiw I am a fan of the Long/Macca way to reconciliation. I reckon if Adam had his time again he might have done it differently, as may have the 13 year old girl. Like I said both sides have merit.

I can't believe you have the brass neck to claim you've tried to debate things in an adult way.

There are enough children in this debate already without adding your 2 pennies worth

 

[Sanders]

That's a Rita Panahi article.

Us Adelaideans mightn't be familiar with her. So I'll enlighten those who aren't.

She's second up against the wall when the revolution comes. Pushing Andrew Bolt for first.

Feel free to use a Rita Skeeter article to back up your arguments, but in doing so understand that if I posted 50 left wing bias articles pro-goodes you'd just ignore it for 'bias' - so why would you expect non conservative bigots to bother with a Rita article.

That's not exactly arguing content now is it? in fact it's a bit desperate.

Yes. Because it's not like he didn't react instinctively. Have you ever been abused from behind? You turn around and react instinctively, often making a first comment during the time it takes to sum up the situation. I have no doubt Goodes hasn't clicked at how old she was when he pointed. It was a reactive, split second decision during a football game - his mind was still trying to focus on the game. But of course, twist the event in order to see the worst in Goodes. As so many have done. Why is it that hard to have faith in people and see the positives in a 50/50 situation?

Amazing. No really. Amazing. How could you miss the point by more.

It's like you are pretending the post game, after the event, vilification didn't happen.
Wish it away all you like, but it happened and it makes a fool of your argument

 

[Sanders]

Alright, I just read the article on AFL site and I am at a complete loss on this so someone please help me. Putting aside the reasons (all of them--the good, the bad, the indifferent) for booing a player---how exactly is it that he cannot take the field?

I have not seen or heard that his safety is in jeopardy. I assume that whatever the reasons people are booing him they are not trying to inflict physical injury upon him by storming the field and/or throwing objects at him?

No you've got it entirely right.

There has been no threats. No verbals assaults. No throwing of things. Just booing. That's it.

There are a lot more people than you wondering what the heck is going on here. There is no missing piece, no context hidden.

It is as ridiculous as it sounds.

My suspicion is that DABM is right. He's a drama queen who can't get a kick and that is something that weighs too heavily.

Ps. We had our Jackie Robinson moment 20 years ago. Racial vilification is not tolerated in our game in anyway.

 

[Sanders]

What happens if they target Eddie next? or Charlie?

That's EXACTLY the point

There is no "they"
There is no "agenda"

Some of the intellectual colossus we have here would argue that anyone booing ARod or Richard Sherman was doing it for purely racial reasons. its that dumb.

Goodes has made a goose of himself publicly with silly statements; he's incited opposition fans, no less deliberately than a WWE star turned heel, and now the poor darlings feelings are hurt by... Some booing.

Jackie Robinson he ain't

 

[Skippos]

That's not exactly arguing content now is it? in fact it's a bit desperate.



Amazing. No really. Amazing. How could you miss the point by more.

It's like you are pretending the post game, after the event, vilification didn't happen.
Wish it away all you like, but it happened and it makes a fool of your argument

The author is relevant though. She's got a clear bias. It's like Christians who when asked for proof of God cite 'the bible says so' as proof. No matter what had happened, writers like Panahi and Bolt would take any excuse to go in studs up against minorities and anything vaguely warm and fuzzy.

Regarding the vilification - what would you have proposed? We pretend it didn't happen? If we just go and say 'yeah, you might have been racist but because you're young I'm just going to treat you with absolute respect and pretend you didn't call me an ape? What message does that send? To me, it says 'if you can justify 'why' you're ignorant, you can get a free pass to say whatever you want.' - and that's not a message I'd like to send. Perhaps the media were a little rough on her, I'll concede. But you've got to criticise this behaviour and make it known as unacceptable if you want to prevent it. Otherwise you're just condoning bigotry and offensive conduct if you can scrape together any justification for it.

Not to mention, she was thirteen. If you're thirteen and can't realise that calling someone an ape is wrong - well, that's a serious issue. It's unlikely that this girl didn't know her behaviour was wrong.

 

[Sanders]

The author is relevant though. She's got a clear bias. It's like Christians who when asked for proof of God cite 'the bible says so' as proof. No matter what had happened, writers like Panahi and Bolt would take any excuse to go in studs up against minorities and anything vaguely warm and fuzzy.

Actually there is no reason anyone should take your word as credible if you can't argue the facts.

Regarding the vilification - what would you have proposed? We pretend it didn't happen? If we just go and say 'yeah, you might have been racist but because you're young I'm just going to treat you with absolute respect and pretend you didn't call me an ape? What message does that send? To me, it says 'if you can justify 'why' you're ignorant, you can get a free pass to say whatever you want.' - and that's not a message I'd like to send. Perhaps the media were a little rough on her, I'll concede. But you've got to criticise this behaviour and make it known as unacceptable if you want to prevent it. Otherwise you're just condoning bigotry and offensive conduct if you can scrape together any justification for it.

Not to mention, she was thirteen. If you're thirteen and can't realise that calling someone an ape is wrong - well, that's a serious issue. It's unlikely that this girl didn't know her behaviour was wrong.

Hang on a moment. You do realise that he went on with it after the game, once he realised she was 13? You realise he named and shamed a 13 year old girl nationally AFTER the game???? He did it knowingly and deliberately with full knowledge of the facts.

feenix67 has already proposed what should have happened

 

[Mego Red]

Actually there is no reason anyone should take your word as credible if you can't argue the facts.

Hang on a moment. You do realise that he went on with it after the game, once he realised she was 13? You realise he named and shamed a 13 year old girl nationally AFTER the game???? He did it knowingly and deliberately with full knowledge of the facts.

feenix67 has already proposed what should have happened

Hold on ...

Let's not rewrite what actually happened to support our version of events.

Goodes was racially vilified by someone in the crowd. He pointed it out and she was ejected. Absolutely what should have happened. And this is how he dealt with the follow up -

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-25/goodes-gutted-but-places-no-blame/4712772

"But Goodes said he is not blaming the girl, saying she deserved to be supported and educated about why the racist comment was unacceptable.

"To come to the boundary line and hear a 13-year-old girl call me an 'ape', and it's not the first time on a footy field that I've been referred to as a 'monkey' or an 'ape', it was shattering."

Goodes announced on Twitter about an hour and a half later that the girl had been in touch.

Just received a phone call from a young girl apologizing for her actions. Lets support her please#racismitstopswithme #IndigenousRound
— Adam Goodes (@adamroy37) May 25, 2013

The two-time premiership winner was visibly shaken and left the field before the full-time siren in a win that saw him reach a milestone 400 goals in senior footy.

"I had to leave the arena. It just broke my heart," Goodes said.

'I don't put any blame on her'

The two-time Brownlow Medallist was adamant that he was sure the girl did not understand the implications of what she said.

The 16-season stalwart has received an outpouring of support on social media from players and fans alike, but said the girl at the centre of the storm deserves just as much support.

"I've had fantastic support over the past 24 hours," Goodes said.

"I just hope that people give the 13 year old girl the same sort of support because she needs it, her family needs it, and the people around them need it.

"It's not a witch-hunt, I don't want people to go after this young girl.

"We've just got to help educate society better so it doesn't happen again."

Goodes said that Victoria Police asked if he would like to press charges but he declined, reiterating that the girl needs to learn why her abuse was hurtful.

"It's not her fault, she's 13, she's still so innocent, I don't put any blame on her," he said.

"Unfortunately it's what she hears, in the environment she's grown up in that has made her think that it's OK to call people names."

"I guarantee she has no idea right now how it makes people feel to call them an ape."

 

[Mego Red]

That's EXACTLY the point

There is no "they"
There is no "agenda"

Some of the intellectual colossus we have here would argue that anyone booing ARod or Richard Sherman was doing it for purely racial reasons. its that dumb.

Goodes has made a goose of himself publicly with silly statements; he's incited opposition fans, no less deliberately than a WWE star turned heel, and now the poor darlings feelings are hurt by... Some booing.

Jackie Robinson he ain't

Oh please. Despite the complete irrelevance of your opinion of what Goodes long term legacy will be, what people are arguing is that he's experiencing the most systematic and widespread verbal attacks ever seen by a modern Australian athlete.

He was told to "go back to the zoo" THIS WEEKEND.

And it is obviously happening because a white audience is responding to being confronted by a black mans opinions on race. He is not pandering to them and he is being provocative about our casual racism.

I genuinely don't understand how this can still be getting discussed.

 

[Mego Red]

I think he's just mentally and emotionally drained from being at the centre of it all.

Plus he's old, probably went on a year too long and is struggling. Once upon a time he may have played anyway and let his football do the talking but he can't now.

He's burnt out.

The age and form thing is a complete irrelevancy. He's doing enough to hold his place while being surrounded by this enormous issue that's exhausting him.

I'd like to think I'd play on, but I can understand if he's over it.

 

[Mego Red]

Actually there is no reason anyone should take your word as credible if you can't argue the facts.

Hold on - pointing out the obvious bias of your far right source material is clearly relevant. You can't bring up the Australian equivalent of Fox News up as anything like a legitimate reference and expect people not to dismiss it.

And Skippos made a series of very relevant points over a series of posts, all of which shot down points you were making and none of which you've responded to.

 

[Jars458]

Absolute rubbish. When has anyone booed any other indigenous player?

I can't stand Alan Jones, and I think Dermott is a tosser, but on this issue I agree with both of them. Goodes has brought this on through his words and actions. People trying to make this a race issue are incapable of independent thought.

How many white players are constantly booed? What unique action in particular has brought this on?

So anyone who disagres with you is incapable of independent thought? Breathtaking. Disagree by all means, but to belittle the opinion of many Australians out of hand says something about you I think.

 

[Jars458]

Invasion day comment is the most devisive term to use on Australia day. It feeds the anti white feelings alot of Aboriginals feel, and it alienates white Australians who are sick of been told by people like Adam that they should be ashamed of their heratige.
Hardly the words of a statesman.

It's a genuine feeling about thr day that many people hold. It doesn't hurt me as a white Australian at all because I can see clearly why Aboriginal people feel the way they do. I feel no guilt but understand the point. Why is that so hard?