VFL/AFL Reserves & Under-19 Records?

[RogersResults]

An interesting result from the final Reserves round of 1934, when St. Kilda scored either 0.1 or 0.2. This was the write-up from The Age:

Twelve minutes after play commenced in the match between St. Kilda and Carlton, with the scores 1.0 to 0.2 in favour of Carlton, owing to the very heavy rain, W. Cubbins, captain of St. Kilda, took his men off the ground. He was followed off by the umpires and then by the Carlton players. After a lot of argument, Cubbins refused to take his men back. R. Job, the Carlton captain, again took his men on to the field. Umpire Hayes then bounced the ball, and White kicked another goal for Carlton, and all players then left the field, with the scores Carlton 2.0, St. Kilda 0.1.

The League Seconds administration later declared it a "no match" (no match points were awarded) and St Kilda was fined five pounds ($10) for their actions.
President of the Seconds, F.W. Gardiner said, "We are hoping that this will be a lesson to other clubs, to guide their coaches and captains. If this sort of thing goes on, it will bring the game down to the level of schoolboys' football." Argus 26 September 1934.

The Seconds at the time was much more autonomous of the VFL than when it later became the "Reserves" and would no doubt have been mindful of preserving its relative independence by demonstrating to the VFL that they were not conducting a "Mickey Mouse" competition.

 

[mianfei]

Sorry for the delay. Have been working in Central Australia for a few months, which makes it quite hard to get the State Library of Victoria to fill my gaps and check some discrepancies.
Anyway, I'm back in Geelong and have been contacted by australianfootball.com about putting what I've got on their site, so that is more than likely going to happen.
Cheers, Ron

Hi,

can you confirm that my score in post #117 is the lowest winning score in the Under-19s?? If it is not, what is the lowest winning score from that competition??

 

[Paul Mara]

Does anybody know if any 2nds or 3rds teams were Premiers and Champions?

 

[RogersResults]

Does anybody know if any 2nds or 3rds teams were Premiers and Champions?

Geelong Seconds in 1930 were undefeated, if that is what you mean by "champions".

 

[mianfei]

Geelong Seconds in 1930 were undefeated, if that is what you mean by "champions".

Essendon’s Under-19s were also unbeaten in 1950 – indeed the team won 55 of 58 matches in all three grades that season, though their senior team was very lucky to win nineteen of twenty as it won four games by a goal or less and was enormously helped by an abnormally dry winter.

 

[Paul Mara]

Yes Roger. Premiers and Champions carry their bat
Thanks
North Under 19's only lost 1 in 1976, i wanted to know if anybody had done better than that.

 

[worbod]

Records of coaches who are known to have coached one club for ten seasons or more (Not necessarily a complete list)




Charlie May coached Essendon from 1927 to 1933, then 1936 to 1940, and 1945 to 1946.
Ray Jordon and Alan Thaw both coached one drawn finals game.

 

[ThePezDispenser]

Fair record Dennis has there

 

[worbod]

From the Under 19s, 1978:

Round 6, St Kilda 15.16 (106) drew with Melbourne 16.10 (106)
Round 17, St Kilda 14.20 (104) drew with Melbourne 14.20 (104)

 

[mianfei]

From the Under 19s, 1978:

Round 6, St Kilda 15.16 (106) drew with Melbourne 16.10 (106)
Round 17, St Kilda 14.20 (104) drew with Melbourne 14.20 (104)

I’ve gone through St. Kilda seniors’ amazing 1978 season in The Age and The Sun many times and never noticed that – of course the first of those games was played on the same day as the record 345-point senior aggregate so a draw in the Under-19s won’t attract much attention!

The only case where two senior football teams have drawn twice in one season that I am aware of was VFA teams North Melbourne and Brunswick as far back as 1912, when their first semi-final had to be replayed twice!

No pair of clubs has drawn twice in any senior VFL/AFL, SANFL or WA(N)FL season. In the SANFL and WA(N)FL I will note that teams play(ed) each other more often than in the Victorian leagues, but that for a variety of reasons draws have generally been less common. This is especially notable with the post-1970 WA(N)FL where drying of Perth’s climate driven by anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions (and possibly other factors) has reduced the frequency of draws to about a quarter the frequency of the pre-1970 WANFL (which was more or less the same as in the VFL and VFA). Very low frequencies of draws compared to senior Victorian football also occurred in the SANFL and WANFL during the 1940s and 1950s – probably because zoning was ineffective and team qualities became sharply differentiated compared to the VFL of that period.

 

[worbod]

When playing for Fitzroy Reserves versus Geelong in round 3, 1970, Shane Molloy became the first player to kick a goal at VFL Park.

 

[the croucher]

When playing for Fitzroy Reserves versus Geelong in round 3, 1970, Shane Molloy became the first player to kick a goal at VFL Park.

Oh, wonder where the U-19s match was played then ?
The next Saturday was Anzac Day, so Reserves matches didn't start until noon or shortly after.
The VFL Record for Round 4 notes that the U-19s round had been cancelled for that week.

 

[Spearhead]

1980, Richmond had the leading Goalkicker in Seniors, reserves and u/19s. All kicked 100+ (Roach 112, Jackson 131, Lane 116).

No wonder Jacko left - he wasn't getting a game ahead of Roach. So then the Tigers brought in BT and he kicked 100+ in the 2s in 1981.

Never heard of Peter Lane again.

From memory Peter Lane tried out at Perth FC in the WAFL in 82 with not a lot of success.

 

[worbod]

According to the 1982 West Australian Football Register, Peter Lane played 5 games for Perth in 1982, kicking 5 goals. I do not have the 1983 edition, but there is no mention of Lane playing senior football in the 1984 edition. He had played for Penguin in Tassie in 1981, notching 14 games and 45 goals.

 

[UpForGrabs]

According to the 1982 West Australian Football Register, Peter Lane played 5 games for Perth in 1982, kicking 5 goals. I do not have the 1983 edition, but there is no mention of Lane playing senior football in the 1984 edition. He had played for Penguin in Tassie in 1981, notching 14 games and 45 goals.

I can check 1983 when I get home.

Will see if I remember

 

[mianfei]

I can check 1983 when I get home.

Will see if I remember

I had a look at the Perth history book From Redlegs to Demons, and it says Lane played only five senior (“league” in WAFL terminology) games for the Demons in 1982, and no more after that.

No doubt Mick Rea kept him out, and despite the club’s weakness at all levels – playing no finals in any grade between 1979 and 1984 – it was never attempted to fit two spearheads or Lane simply failed.

On another level, the way in which Richmond dominated the grades in 1980 had critics suggesting they would be the club of the 1980s, yet by the end of the decade Richmond had two wooden spoons in three seasons and had won only fifty-three of 154 matches since 1983! That must be, for a club with such an abundance of rich supporters – that’s why Richmond survived and Fitzroy did not in the middle 1990s despite the latter’s vastly superior on-field record – the worst administration seen in football, and it’s not easy to see a club so badly run as Richmond must have been during the 1980s in other sports either. It is true that other clubs had similar problems to the Tigers, but Collingwood for one were able to reform with such effect as to win a premiership in 1990 after having been in severe financial problems from expensive recruiting four and five sixths seasons before.

 

[Wallaby]

Richmond were still stuck in 'Play for the Jumper' mode. The game was starting to go fully professional - we weren't. We thought players could be signed up for 6 shirts (Royce Hart) or 'A set of wheels' (Dick Clay - a Malvern Star). We got burned badly in the trade wars with Collingwood - they got Cloke and Raines - we got Craig Stewart, Phil Walsh (new Crows coach), and a whole heap of other duds. We made no effort to raise serious funds amongst our supporters to pay players or coaches. At least two coaches - Sproule and Patterson - had serious difficulties in their financial dealings with Richmond.

 

[mikewp]

Does anyone know if it was ever possible for Reserves teams playing in finals to include players from the Senior side who had not made the finals?Was there a rule.Example,Joe Bloggs plays 21 senior games for Fitzroy but is dropped for round 22 due to poor form.He finds form in Round 22 Reserves and is BOG.Fitzroy make the Reserves Elimination final and he again is BOG.Is there a rule of some sort in this scenario?

 

[mikewp]

Because it doesn't seem to be on the internet anywhere...
AFL VFL Reserve Grade Premiers

Reserves Premiers    R-U       
1919    Collingwood    University A   
1920    Collingwood    University   
1921    Essendon    Collingwood   
1922    Collingwood    Essendon   
1923    Geelong        Richmond
1924    Geelong        Essendon
1925    Collingwood    Fitzroy   
1926    Carlton        Geelong
1927    Carlton        Sydney
1928    Carlton        Geelong
1929    Richmond    Geelong   
1930    Geelong        Richmond
1931    Melbourne    Geelong   
1932    Melbourne    Essendon   
1933    Melbourne    St Kilda   
1934    Melbourne    Geelong   
1935    Melbourne    Geelong   
1936    WesternB    Melbourne   
1937    Geelong        Collingwood
1938    Geelong        WesternB
1939    Melbourne    Richmond   
1940    Collingwood    Carlton   
1941    Essendon    Fitzroy   
1942    St Kilda    Fitzroy   
1943    St Kilda    Fitzroy   
1944    Fitzroy        Collingwood
1945    WesternB    Fitzroy   
1946    Richmond    Fitzroy   
1947    North Melb    Richmond   
1948    Geelong        Richmond
1949    Melbourne    Essendon   
1950    Essendon    North Melb   
1951    Carlton        Essendon
1952    Essendon    Collingwood   
1953    Carlton        Essendon
1954    Richmond    Melbourne   
1955    Richmond    WesternB   
1956    Melbourne    Sydney   
1957    North Melb    Fitzroy   
1958    Hawthorn    Collingwood   
1959    Hawthorn    Fitzroy   
1960    Geelong        Hawthorn
1961    St Kilda    Geelong   
1962    WesternB    St Kilda   
1963    Geelong        St Kilda
1964    Geelong        Richmond
1965    Collingwood    Geelong   
1966    Richmond    Collingwood   
1967    North Melb    Richmond   
1968    Essendon    Richmond   
1969    Melbourne    Carlton   
1970    Melbourne    Richmond   
1971    Richmond    Essendon   
1972    Hawthorn    Melbourne   
1973    Richmond    Geelong   
1974    Fitzroy        WesternB
1975    Geelong        Richmond
1976    Collingwood    North Melb   
1977    Richmond    WesternB   
1978    North Melb    Hawthorn   
1979    North Melb    Collingwood   
1980    Geelong        Sydney
1981    Geelong        Essendon
1982    Geelong        St Kilda
1983    Essendon    Collingwood   
1984    Melbourne    Carlton   
1985    Hawthorn    Carlton   
1986    Carlton        WesternB
1987    Carlton        St Kilda
1988    WesternB    North Melb   
1989    Fitzroy        Geelong
1990    Carlton        Melbourne
1991    Brisbane    Melbourne   
1992    Essendon    Melbourne   
1993    Melbourne    North Melb   
1994    WesternB    North Melb   
1995    North Melb    Sydney   
1996    North Melb    Essendon   
1997    Richmond    Hawthorn   
1998    WesternB    Essendon   
1999    Essendon    St Kilda

South Melbourne?Sydney never won or made a Reserves GF!

 

[RogersResults]

Does anyone know if it was ever possible for Reserves teams playing in finals to include players from the Senior side who had not made the finals?Was there a rule.Example,Joe Bloggs plays 21 senior games for Fitzroy but is dropped for round 22 due to poor form.He finds form in Round 22 Reserves and is BOG.Fitzroy make the Reserves Elimination final and he again is BOG.Is there a rule of some sort in this scenario?

There were limits on how many senior games could be played, once the limit was passed (it varied over time - but was about 5-7 matches), you were not eligible to play.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper - an advanced search here of The Argus, The Age, or The Sporting Globe from the 1920s to the 1950s may find the exact rules.

 

[Rizzo32]

Sav Rocca only kicked 6 goals in Collingwood's massive win. The highest Pies goal tally went to S. Bennett who kicked 11, with Collingwood having 16 separate goalkickers that day.

That is Shayne Bennett who interestingly went on to play MLB in the states

 

[Rizzo32]

After some search tips (preferably online) to find some missing Collingwood Reserves results, bests and goalkickers from 2000

Specifically:

Coll vs Rich 13th May 2000
Coll vs Coburg-Fitzroy 29th May 2000
Coll vs ?? 10th June 2000
Coll vs Springvale 26th June 2000

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[35Daicos]

After some search tips (preferably online) to find some missing Collingwood Reserves results, bests and goalkickers from 2000

Specifically:

Coll vs Rich 13th May 2000
Coll vs Coburg-Fitzroy 29th May 2000
Coll vs ?? 10th June 2000
Coll vs Springvale 26th June 2000

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

This has the results (not best players and goalkickers, however):-

http://australianfootball.com/seasons/season/vfl/126/premiership+season/9/9/2000

The Football Record can be viewed/downloaded here:-

http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/football-record
http://cedric.slv.vic.gov.au/R/E4S8...29?func=collections-result&collection_id=2634

The Scoreboard page (near the back of the Record) has the best players and goalkickers from the 2000 VFL games.

 

[mianfei]

That is Shayne Bennett who interestingly went on to play MLB in the states

Is he the only footballer who played major league baseball – and how was he recruited and by which MLB team?? I knew several like Darren Bennett and Ben Graham have served as punters in gridiron, but never baseball.

There were limits on how many senior games could be played, once the limit was passed (it varied over time - but was about 5-7 matches), you were not eligible to play.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper - an advanced search here of The Argus, The Age, or The Sporting Globe from the 1920s to the 1950s may find the exact rules.

I recall rather faintly that the limit was thirteen senior games, with the same limit of reserve grade matches applying for Under 19 grade finals, but could not verify this by checking the 1986 Football Record from the weekend of the last round and the first week of finals.

 

[stemline]

This has the results (not best players and goalkickers, however):-

http://australianfootball.com/seasons/season/vfl/126/premiership+season/9/9/2000

The Football Record can be viewed/downloaded here:-

http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/football-record
http://cedric.slv.vic.gov.au/R/E4S8...29?func=collections-result&collection_id=2634

The Scoreboard page (near the back of the Record) has the best players and goalkickers from the 2000 VFL games.

Here's another online source. No goal kickers, but you can get to the 'selected teams' through the Match Centre link
http://www.foxsportspulse.com/comp_info.cgi?a=ROUND&round=-1&client=1-118-0-157960-0&pool=1