Strategy Crows Premiership Plan

[DJ75]

I suspect it is fair to say that many, many Crows supporters are well and truly sick and tired of seeing the same 'mistakes' repeated over and over again.

I fear that the club as a whole does not have it's mind set on winning a premiership, but rather on week to week survival. I'm not sure if it stems from Trigg's 'finish 8th and anything can happen' mantra or if we are so scared of failure that we won't risk a charge for success.

The bottom line is that in the latter part of last year and the early part of this year, the comments from Roo, Fagan and Walsh made it look like we had changed this cancerous attitude.

Sadly, today it looks like nothing much has changed at all.

Week in and week out we continually make team selections based on winning this weeks game. We are once again in a battle to finish in the 8th spot and are doing all we can to try and get there. This appears to be to the detriment of our own younger players and once again without any eye on the future.

I know some will point to the axing of VB as a sign we have changed, however I'm sure we are all also expecting him to be back in the team very shortly at the expense of Knight. We can also look at the selection of Thompson over CEY and wonder if that is a decision based on a future plan or is it based on this week alone?
What of BOB? Or Lyons? Do we have a plan for either of them? Atkins? Why do we consistently permit with guys who are average without seeing if the other guys on our list can rise above average?

I think it is high time that we asked some very tough questions of Roo and Fagan and asked them what the plan is. If they don't know it or can't articulate the plan, then we have a significant problem. Maybe Roo and Fagan can sit down the coaching group and ask them?

My greatest fear is that in the aftermath of Walsh's death, we are going to be back on the 'play for now' merry-go-round as Campo tries to sell himself with immediate wins and then the new coach, whoever it may be, decides to keep the status quo for a period of time while he learns about the players and team. Effectively putting us another 12 months minimum behind where we could and should be.

Ultimately, I want to know from Roo and Fagan if the club has a clear plan that the entire club understands and is striving towards - from our recruiting department, to our line coaches, to the senior coach to the bloody boot cleaners. Is the entire club on the same page with a plan to deliver ultimate success? Not success this week, but a plan that will deliver a premiership.

Right now, some 17 years after our last success, I still can't see a plan for future success and as a member, it is wearing very thin.

 

[Smoooothy]

nailed it for mine

 

[Coopers]

We have a group of about 7 or so players who are Bona-fide A graders.

And that's a lot. A fair few teams don't have that.

We've got a fair group of another 8 or so that are fairly good footballers who are 1st 22 selections every day of the week.

And then... we have 20 more blokes who are in and out of the team and would struggle to play elsewhere.

That's the problem. It's not that we don't have depth, it's that our depth sucks.


I'd assume that the plan is to get that depth to step up by developing some of them and chopping the ones that can't make it, but the process would seem to be a 5 year process, meaning those aforementioned A graders will be past their prime...

Would be good to have a plan.

 

[Mattrox]

The age/experience profile is all wrong. Experienced battle hardened sides like Hawthorn and Freo will take us apart in finals.


What we have been doing well:

1) Getting SOME players of the future the experience they require.
Laird, Brown, Cameron - CEY to a certain extent, Hartigan - we need to know if he'll be best 22 or a depth player, Kelly, Lever.

2) Getting SOME players to improve/ Expand their game.
CEY off the back of some hard work of his own, Cameron, Jenkins, Laird's break out season.

3)Getting mentally tougher- work in progress.
There are some games we won this year, that we would have folded in in 2013/14. Winning ugly is important, but we should not rely on it.

4) Recruiting has been relatively good. I think some of the controversial list management decisions have been made on the back of the huge public outcry that we loose too many players, coupled with the lost draft picks. I expect more astute decisions made in the future.

What we need to do better:

Make the hard call on veteran players earlier. We need to be less afraid to give senior players SANFL time to find form. And bring in younger players to get experience. AFC could do this and tell fans that we are building for the future. We don't need a complete rebuild, we need to continue to build.
Getting out of form players in the SANFL provides motivation for them to lift. It also gets them touching the ball and improving their form. The more you use the ball effectively, the easier it gets at AFL level. This helps with point 2) above.

Tackling needs to improve. We need to get this right.

For the future:
We need a couple of fast players in strategic locations. Cameron is fast up forward. But we need some real speed through the middle of the ground. Recruiting priority #1. They don't all have to be run and carry type players, a fast player that can make position in space to receive a kick will do no end of good to our kicking efficiency.

If we are able to do this then I'd be happy for a KP player to strengthen the spine.

We need to play younger players for a string of games (not sub) to see if they should be best 22 or if they will be future depth.


I am sure this is not a comprehensive list.

 

[Mattrox]

The age/experience profile is all wrong. Experienced battle hardened sides like Hawthorn and Freo will take us apart in finals.


What we have been doing well:

1) Getting SOME players of the future the experience they require.
Laird, Brown, Cameron - CEY to a certain extent, Hartigan - we need to know if he'll be best 22 or a depth player, Kelly, Lever.

2) Getting SOME players to improve/ Expand their game.
CEY off the back of some hard work of his own, Cameron, Jenkins, Laird's break out season.

3)Getting mentally tougher- work in progress.
There are some games we won this year, that we would have folded in in 2013/14. Winning ugly is important, but we should not rely on it.

4) Recruiting has been relatively good. I think some of the controversial list management decisions have been made on the back of the huge public outcry that we loose too many players, coupled with the lost draft picks. I expect more astute decisions made in the future.

What we need to do better:

Make the hard call on veteran players earlier. We need to be less afraid to give senior players SANFL time to find form. And bring in younger players to get experience. AFC could do this and tell fans that we are building for the future. We don't need a complete rebuild, we need to continue to build.
Getting out of form players in the SANFL provides motivation for them to lift. It also gets them touching the ball and improving their form. The more you use the ball effectively, the easier it gets at AFL level. This helps with point 2) above.

Tackling needs to improve. We need to get this right.

For the future:
We need a couple of fast players in strategic locations. Cameron is fast up forward. But we need some real speed through the middle of the ground. Recruiting priority #1. They don't all have to be run and carry type players, a fast player that can make position in space to receive a kick will do no end of good to our kicking efficiency.

If we are able to do this then I'd be happy for a KP player to strengthen the spine.

We need to play younger players for a string of games (not sub) to see if they should be best 22 or if they will be future depth.


I am sure this is not a comprehensive list.

 

[Mego Red]

I would never want us to be Melbourne, gifting games to kids where they reinforce bad habits.

I want us to be like the Western Bulldogs this year, dropping players no matter their reputation (Macrae, Boyd, Minson) if they're not playing team football.

If Matt Crouch isn't running back and isn't playing right, he goes back to the twos to learn more.

Of course, that only works if you're as willing to drop Minson and you are Jack Macrae.

 

[Mego Red]

The age/experience profile is all wrong. Experienced battle hardened sides like Hawthorn and Freo will take us apart in finals.


What we have been doing well:

1) Getting SOME players of the future the experience they require.
Laird, Brown, Cameron - CEY to a certain extent, Hartigan - we need to know if he'll be best 22 or a depth player, Kelly, Lever.

2) Getting SOME players to improve/ Expand their game.
CEY off the back of some hard work of his own, Cameron, Jenkins, Laird's break out season.

3)Getting mentally tougher- work in progress.
There are some games we won this year, that we would have folded in in 2013/14. Winning ugly is important, but we should not rely on it.

4) Recruiting has been relatively good. I think some of the controversial list management decisions have been made on the back of the huge public outcry that we loose too many players, coupled with the lost draft picks. I expect more astute decisions made in the future.

What we need to do better:

Make the hard call on veteran players earlier. We need to be less afraid to give senior players SANFL time to find form. And bring in younger players to get experience. AFC could do this and tell fans that we are building for the future. We don't need a complete rebuild, we need to continue to build.
Getting out of form players in the SANFL provides motivation for them to lift. It also gets them touching the ball and improving their form. The more you use the ball effectively, the easier it gets at AFL level. This helps with point 2) above.

Tackling needs to improve. We need to get this right.

For the future:
We need a couple of fast players in strategic locations. Cameron is fast up forward. But we need some real speed through the middle of the ground. Recruiting priority #1. They don't all have to be run and carry type players, a fast player that can make position in space to receive a kick will do no end of good to our kicking efficiency.

If we are able to do this then I'd be happy for a KP player to strengthen the spine.

We need to play younger players for a string of games (not sub) to see if they should be best 22 or if they will be future depth.


I am sure this is not a comprehensive list.

Excellent post.

 

[Niximus]

I think it is high time that we asked some very tough questions of Roo and Fagan and asked them what the plan is. If they don't know it or can't articulate the plan, then we have a significant problem. Maybe Roo and Fagan can sit down the coaching group and ask them?

Come on, really?

Fagan hasn't put a foot wrong in the time he has been at our club, and Roo was instrumental in getting rid of Sando and bringing Walsh on board. The management of our club has never been better.

Walsh had a target to really compete in 2017 and we had made the first steps toward that. No, our skills didn't magically improve overnight, and they won't, but we went from looking like an unskilled team running around with no idea, to an unskilled team running around with a purpose. I have no doubt that we were on track.

Of course, losing Walsh, especially in the way we did has set us back, that is unavoidable. Grilling Fagan and Roo before they have even selected Walsh's replacement is jumping the gun in the extreme.

 

[Mike Smyth]

1) If Dangerfield leaves change our recruiting policy from " best available " to "best Sa kid available".

2) Hold average off field staff accountable for their continued mistakes. See Nible, Harper, Smart

3) Set a plan where we build towards a premiership and sustained success rather than planning just to make finals. Our goal should be a premiership run in 2018. If we have to spend the next few years around the bottom 8 while we play kids instead of average senior players then so be it.

4) Stop giving generous, ridiculous contracts to non SA players.

 

[Red mist]

Yep, week by week survival to get us to round 23. At the moment we are 9th. Out of the 8 on percentage and the selection policy seems to be structure and balance with non statistical plodders.
The Crows have all got together and resolved to finish to season to honour Phils legacy and that's fine. It's the way they are doing it at the moment that rankles. Over conservatism as theoretically we are still around about.
Until we get 2 or so wins outside the 8 we are not going to get the selection policy many desire.
We need to throw caution to the wind and play the guys showing promise in the reserves and drop the underperforming players. Simple as that for me. Don't care about making finals but more about the future. See who we've got and get the rebuild underway now.
One thing though, I don't think Camporeale is trying to boost his chances by notching up wins. Well I hope not anyway.

 

[1990crow]

1) If Dangerfield leaves change our recruiting policy from " best available " to "best Sa kid available".

2) Hold average off field staff accountable for their continued mistakes. See Nible, Harper, Smart

3) Set a plan where we build towards a premiership and sustained success rather than planning just to make finals. Our goal should be a premiership run in 2018. If we have to spend the next few years around the bottom 8 while we play kids instead of average senior players then so be it.

4) Stop giving generous, ridiculous contracts to non SA players.

I dont know how many times we have to go through this. We will never win a premiership if we adopt this attitude. The talent in this state just isnt there to compete with the best. This means it will require giving non SA players (so long as they deserve it) good contracts.

 

[Niximus]

1) If Dangerfield leaves change our recruiting policy from " best available " to "best Sa kid available".

Great, then when the interstate gun that we pass over is cutting it up, and the SA player is playing like the pick he would have otherwise been selected at, we can rip into the club for shitty recruiting.

 

[1990crow]

Great, then when the interstate gun that we pass over is cutting it up, and the SA player is playing like the pick he would have otherwise been selected at, we can rip into the club for shitty recruiting.

Yep dumb comment..

 

[DJ75]

Come on, really?

Fagan hasn't put a foot wrong in the time he has been at our club, and Roo was instrumental in getting rid of Sando and bringing Walsh on board. The management of our club has never been better.

Walsh had a target to really compete in 2017 and we had made the first steps toward that. No, our skills didn't magically improve overnight, and they won't, but we went from looking like an unskilled team running around with no idea, to an unskilled team running around with a purpose. I have no doubt that we were on track.

Of course, losing Walsh, especially in the way we did has set us back, that is unavoidable. Grilling Fagan and Roo before they have even selected Walsh's replacement is jumping the gun in the extreme.

I 100% understand where you are coming from. Fagan and Roo have said everything correct. Walsh definitely talked about 2017 and was setting a plan to work towards it. The Walsh death has been a disaster of epic proportions.

However, don't you feel like we are back on the merry-go-round now? We are selecting Thompson and playing him in the middle all game every game. How is that for the future? The harsh reality is that Thommo won't be part of a premiership team. He just won't be. So why pick him ahead of CEY who has shown some real ability and could be part of one? Should we be getting game sin to BOB and working on his game at the top level?

We pick Thommo because we are focussed on this week and this season only.

We know what Wright brings and what his deficiencies are. Is he really going to improve any further? Could Atkins do his role better? What about Lyon? You don't find out by picking these guys and playing them as the sub.

It is a difficult time to ask the big questions I agree, but we have been doing the same thing for at least 10 years now. Surely we have had enough and realised that aiming for mid table is not a recipe for ultimate success. Surely we know that some of the players we currently have in the team can't and won't take us to the top. When is enough enough?

I want to hear from our club that we have a single minded goal - premiership. That whatever coach we select will be working to that and that alone. I want to know that when we interview coaches we want to see their plan from day 1 to premiership day. I want to know that we are telling our recruiters exactly what we need to get there.

I just want to know that we have a PLAN. Not a hope or a maybe, but a clear definable plan.

 

[Red mist]

It's not that we don't have depth, it's that our depth sucks.

Just this bit Coop. Yeah that's no depth lol.
The rest was fine.

 

[1990crow]

I 100% understand where you are coming from. Fagan and Roo have said everything correct. Walsh definitely talked about 2017 and was setting a plan to work towards it. The Walsh death has been a disaster of epic proportions.

However, don't you feel like we are back on the merry-go-round now? We are selecting Thompson and playing him in the middle all game every game. How is that for the future? The harsh reality is that Thommo won't be part of a premiership team. He just won't be. So why pick him ahead of CEY who has shown some real ability and could be part of one? Should we be getting game sin to BOB and working on his game at the top level?

We pick Thommo because we are focussed on this week and this season only.

We know what Wright brings and what his deficiencies are. Is he really going to improve any further? Could Atkins do his role better? What about Lyon? You don't find out by picking these guys and playing them as the sub.

It is a difficult time to ask the big questions I agree, but we have been doing the same thing for at least 10 years now. Surely we have had enough and realised that aiming for mid table is not a recipe for ultimate success. Surely we know that some of the players we currently have in the team can't and won't take us to the top. When is enough enough?

I want to hear from our club that we have a single minded goal - premiership. That whatever coach we select will be working to that and that alone. I want to know that when we interview coaches we want to see their plan from day 1 to premiership day. I want to know that we are telling our recruiters exactly what we need to get there.

I just want to know that we have a PLAN. Not a hope or a maybe, but a clear definable plan.

You're at the wrong club if you're hoping for one. I might be overly negative given the game on Friday night but I've seen enough over the past 6 seasons to know there's things that just aren't working and we don't have the guts to change it.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I dont know how many times we have to go through this. We will never win a premiership if we adopt this attitude. The talent in this state just isnt there to compete with the best. This means it will require giving non SA players (so long as they deserve it) good contracts.

Agree but disagree as well. It's not as simple as that.

I think we have to become very strategic about how and why we trade. If we are looking at a player from Victoria and a player from SA and they are equal in ablity and bring very similar attributes, we should draft the SA player.

Hypothetically, we have pick 10 and a SA based player we need is rated between 4 and 8 - we should find a way of trading up to grab that SA player rather than accept pick 10 and play a game of 'will he stay or will he leave'

We should be developing strategies to draft the best SA player but don't draft an SA player at all costs.

 

[Red mist]

Agree but disagree as well. It's not as simple as that.

I think we have to become very strategic about how and why we trade. If we are looking at a player from Victoria and a player from SA and they are equal in ablity and bring very similar attributes, we should draft the SA player.

Hypothetically, we have pick 10 and a SA based player we need is rated between 4 and 8 - we should find a way of trading up to grab that SA player rather than accept pick 10 and play a game of 'will he stay or will he leave'

We should be developing strategies to draft the best SA player but don't draft an SA player at all costs.

West Coast and Freo models don't lie when they have a lot more home grown. Our first pick being an SA boy over an interstate fella when equal talent should be a no brainer.

 

[Bob Neil]

Thommo 2015 = McDermott & Jarman 1996

 

[Niximus]

I 100% understand where you are coming from. Fagan and Roo have said everything correct. Walsh definitely talked about 2017 and was setting a plan to work towards it. The Walsh death has been a disaster of epic proportions.

He certainly was, and he was also picking Thommo and Wright etc.

It isn't necessarily that we're picking those players just to focus on this week. Look at the Tex interview with Jaensch, back when Craig was dropping Tex to the SANFL to work on his defensive side it attracted huge criticism and these types of threads and now Tex is grateful for it and considers it something that made him a better player.

Maybe we have people at our club who know how to develop our young talent, and maybe that doesn't always mean as many AFL games as possible? Especially now that we have our own reserves team where players can drop back but still be under the AFC system.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Thommo 2015 = McDermott & Jarman 1996

VB as well.

 

[pjcrows]

There is a plan. Unfortunately the leader is no longer there to see it through.

 

[azza77]

Until more than 10% of our midfield learns how to kick a football, we are going nowhere.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Great, then when the interstate gun that we pass over is cutting it up, and the SA player is playing like the pick he would have otherwise been selected at, we can rip into the club for shitty recruiting.

Soooeee...its ground hog day.

West coast have something crazy like 24 wa guys on their list. They're going okay. I don't me all the time either just when possible ie dangerfield/ebert.

 

[Bay62]

I think we all get that Thommo is on his last legs and we need to get games into players like CEY and Crouch

But what of Thommo's performance in the Showdown? Should he have been left out of that? Would we have won if he was?

We are in transition. Thommo can't run but he still offers leadership and muscle and knowledge to pass onto the youngsters