2015 Draft Discussion

[WA Lion]

Foot soreness? For a Qlder, you don't say.

out of site out of mind hopefully! Drift a couple of spots down the draft rankings!

 

[Harris Specter]

Reading up on Schache, I find it hard to believe that we would go for Weitering instead, who is much more of a utility type. All credit to the draft experts who have done some amazing write-ups on the two players. IMO it's these two and Francis who would make up the top 3 draft prospects.

A+ Grade Profiles:

Joshua Schache - Vic Country (199 cm, 96 kg key forward)
Style: Tom Hawkins
Comparison: Tom Boyd

Schache has to be considered the number one pick by now - partly due to performance and partly due to position. If Schache is still considered a top three prospect come draft time, with Carlton, Brisbane and potentially Gold Coast (if Dixon leaves) all desperate for a franchise key forward, it would be very surprising to see him overlooked for the number one slot. As a player he is a powerful key forward with a high endurance base, an excellent set shot and a fantastic mark of the ball. He is a one grab mark and capable of really rooting himself to the ground and giving himself a foundation in contests to resist contact and avoid being moved off the ball like a Peter Wright type was last year. The knock on Schache is, like a Tom Boyd type, that he's not very quick, occasionally struggling to create separation and has a large turning circle. At ground level he is not going to turn around his opponent. In general, Schache favours the game being played in the air as opposed to the ground - while the modern day key forward often competes in both dimensions. That said, his dominance across the championships has been unrivaled by any key forward over the last few years so he rightly demands consideration for pick one.

Jacob Weitering - Vic Country (195 cm, 94 kg key defender)
Style/Comparison: Alex Rance

Weitering is another player clubs will be swooning over. It is rare for a key defender to be considered this early but if there was one to buck the trend, it is Weitering. He is such a well rounded player. Aerially he excels, picking up the flight of the ball early and positioning himself well. He picks the right times to zone off and intercept and when sticking to his man he rarely loses one on one, with his ability to ground himself, keep balanced and mark or spoil exceptional. By foot, he nails targets and makes the right decisions and defensively he's got a proven record of shutting down his opponents despite their natural gifts. Aerially he's better than his opponents. At ground level, he often beats them - there would be very few forwards who could get on top of him, with the exception being the ones who combine athleticism with football IQ, and they're a rare breed. Weitering while athletic isn't exceptionally quick or agile, and could find himself giving away space to those who can match him for smarts and beat him for pace.

2015 Draft Profiles:


Jacob Weitering (VIC – KPD)
Height: 195cm, Weight: 90kg, DOB: 23/11/1997
Recruited from: Dandenong Stingrays
Player Comparison: Ben Reid
Range: 1-10
Best position/role: Rebounding Centre Half Back.
Strengths:
Ability to read the flight – Weitering reads the flight as well as any key defender in the u18s. He reads the flight early and it puts him in position to time after time either take the intercept mark on the occasions he peels off his direct opponent or otherwise allows him early in the contest to get into best position to get a stop or take a mark 1v1 depending on circumstance.
Intercept marking ability – Weitering is an excellent intercept mark and it comes from his ability to read the flight as well as his strong hands overhead. He takes numerous intercept marks each game be it in leaving his man for the mark or in 1v1 contests.
1v1 marking ability – In 1v1 contests Weitering generally reads the flight earlier than his direct opponent and outpoints his direct opponent through superior ability to read the flight, superior body positioning in the contest and superior body on body strength.
1v1 ability – Weitering in 1v1 contests has a good feel for when he can take the intercept mark or when he needs to get the spoil in and generally makes the right decisions as to what he needs to do in the given situation.
Footskills – Weitering is an excellent kick for a key position player. He has a penetrating 60m kick on him, and has the ability to consistently hit targets up the field over long or short distances. He demonstrates excellent vision finding good targets up the field and then will go on an execute the kick to a target kicking it out in front for his team mates to lead onto. His kicking efficiency also is excellent suggesting that he has the reliability to go with the hurt-factor.
Versatility – Weitering while he is a natural centre half back can also play very good football off a back flank and even up on a wing with a skillset and running ability that has enabled him to have success in these roles in seasons past before his growth spurt. I also speculate while I see him as a key defender that he also as required given his mix of traits could play forward as someone who reads the flight so well, has strong 1v1 marking ability and also excellent endurance by position, with all those areas so critical to success in the front half.
Proven performances v men – Weitering has succeeded against AFL talent in Majak Daw and Matthew Watson who are both big boys, showing that he can hold his own physically, so given that you can pick Weitering with confidence knowing that he can handle the bigger bodies and already hold his own. As such he may be able to come into a team possibly as early as year one, and if not then most likely year two and start to have an impact then.
Ability to compete against the big key forwards – Weitering given his success v Majak Daw and Matthew Watson has shown that clearly he has the ability to compete against big, strong, physical marking forwards, as a key defender who can hold his position in the contest and hold his own without being intimidated by his opponent’s size and strength.
Late bloomer – Having grown from 177cm at u15 level, Weitering has shot up significantly in years since to grow into a genuine key position size player. Historically player who shoot up relatively later like this have substantially greater scope to improve with Patrick Cripps and Marcus Bontempelli two recent examples of this, and understanding this, I’m anticipating substantial improvement to still come from Weitering.
Shutdown ability – Weitering is a very good stopper. He has the strength to play against men now 1v1. He is capable at ground level and has the endurance to run with guys around the ground. He can take his 1v1 marks but at the appropriate times will look to get the spoil in, knowing his limitations.
Balance between offense and defence – Weitering is someone who can do it on both sides of the ball. He can beat his direct opponent 1v1 and go with them around the ground, but then also has the ability to peel off his opponent at the right times, take the intercept mark and provide some meaningful rebound.
Athleticism – Weitering is a very good athlete. He does a 14+ beep which is excellent for a key position player. His leaping ability is excellent. His agility is good for a tall and pace only average which is fine given his competence in the other athletic categories.
Questionmarks:
Closing speed – Weitering reads the flight early and well, but against a forward with extreme straight-line speed I expect Weitering to be found out on the lead.
Weaknesses:
Ability to defend freakishly mobile forwards – Weitering looks like he will be best suited to playing against the more physical, stronger marking key forwards with that where he already shows obvious ability. But against your Lance Franklin’s and Jeremy Cameron’s or someone of similar freakish mobility I expect Weitering to struggle with those types of matchups with his pace and agility good but not great on that level, and not likely to get better as someone I see becoming stronger more than he will become athletic from here on in.
Summary:
Weitering projects to be a 300 game key defender and multiple time All Australian Centre Half Back. He has the ability to develop into the best key defender in the competition with the completeness, dominance and rapid development he is demonstrating. Weitering from season one can step into a back half and contribute and will only continue his rapid footballing growth with further games.



Joshua Schache (VIC – KPF)
Height: 199cm, Weight: 96kg, DOB: 21/08/1997
Recruited from: Murray Bushrangers
Player comparison: Tom Lynch (Gold Coast)
Range: 1-5
Best position/role: Centre Half Forward with ability to play Full Forward.
Strength:
Footskills – Schache is an excellent kick of the footy. He has 50-55m of penetration but critically is a precision kick over all distances. In front of goal Schache is reliable whether he is kicking is attempting set shots or shots at goal from general play. He consistently hits his targets around the ground over a variety of distances. He has composure with ball in hand consistently making the right decisions. He lowers his eyes and at the right times is unselfish and will hit the targets inside 50 in better positions to more easily convert. Schache overall has the ability to be one of the best general kicking big men in the game.
Vision – Schache does well to spot meaningful targets up the field or inside 50 and has the footskills to execute these kicks. He demonstrates at times an unselfishness to his game and will consistently lower his eyes rather than just kick long for the sake of kicking long, in order to find a meaningful target.
Decision making – Schache makes good decisions with ball in hand. In general play he demonstrates a level of composure unusual for a key forward. He also will take his time with ball in hand, make the right decision, and execute by hand or foot to his target.
Set shot goalkicking – Schache is a very good set shot goalkicker and can be relied on in front of goal. He can convert reasonably consistently from a variety of distances, variety of angles and has for him what is a reliable set shot routine.
Marking ability – Schache is a strong mark overhead. He marks near the highest point consistently and is a one grab mark overhead. He is a particularly threatening contested mark but also will take his share of marks on the lead, and he shows a willingness at times to lead up as far as a wing to get some marks. If required Schache can push back into the back half to take intercept marks with his ability to read the flight excellent.
Contested marking – Schache is a strong contested mark. He can win some 1v1 marking contests and take pack marks. He has the strength in the contest, superior ability to read the flight and get to the drop of the ball, and with his extra height and strength and one grab overhead marking, he is a very good contested mark who can draw the ball and be a reliable number one marking target forward of centre.
Ability to read the flight – Schache reads the flight of the ball very well. He gets to the drop of the ball consistently and rarely if ever caught out of position in a marking contest. He also while he does not usually play in defence, also has the ability behind the play to take intercept marks.
Ground level ability – Schache has excellent co-ordination below his knees for a key forward. He picks the ball up cleanly off the deck and does not normally fumble when collecting the ground balls. So he is more than just a marking forward and has the blend of marking and ground level ability.
Ability to keep his feet – Schache has a real balance to him and in the contest he consistently keeps his feet and does not go to ground which makes him a real threat when the ball hits the deck and he only has the one defender to beat, with his strength and ability to win the ground ball.
Endurance – Schache is only an average athlete by position, but where his real strength lies athletically is in his endurance. Schache is an excellent endurance running key forward and covers the ground as well as any key forward in this draft over the course of four quarters. He will go on his leads up the ground, and will work opposition key defenders over with his endurance superiority.
Size and strength – Schache is a tall key forward and also has good size and strength to him. He has the strength through the legs to stand up in the contest and in 1v1 contests and in pack situations he has not only the strength overhead but also the body strength to allow him to take his share of contested marks with regularity.
Questionmarks:
Athleticism – Schache is only an average athlete overall. His endurance is an excellent by position. Outside of endurance, Schache has good agility by position as a fluid mover for someone at his height and is able to change directions fine which are further positives. But he is not extremely explosive over shorter distances and as such does not tend particularly closer to goal to generate separation on the lead. When he does tend to create separation is on the lead up the field because of his endurance superiority and guys when it gets to endurance running tend to struggle more to keep up with Schache. Additionally his leaping ability although he is able to leap and take marks will limit him slightly in terms of marking ability in the air but more so from the standpoint that it will likely limit his ability to play minutes through the ruck, not that I’d necessarily want to anyway with Schache a natural key forward.
Ability to play multiple positions – As such a high level key forward I propose Schache plays his whole career forward, and that should be an easy one. So in his case versatility does not concern me. He has the attributes to be a very good key defender and swing back if required because he reads the flight so well and as a result with his marking ability can take intercept marks, so if the situation requires it, that’s something I’d be open to with Schace. Through the ruck though I feel Schache will struggle at AFL level, because he isn’t 200cm+ or a particularly good leaper. He has the endurance so perhaps as a ruckman he could find the ball around the ground and he could certainly push forward or back and take some big marks, and probably follows up ok at ground level and wins some ground ball at times, making good decisions when he does win it, but none the less it’s not something I’d be personally comfortable with, and something I hope he isn’t pushed into doing.
Weaknesses:
Tackling and pressure game – The relative weakness with Schache is in his tackling and pressure game. His tackle per game numbers are low, and his chasing and tackling effort by position are below average and will require further growth.
Summary:
Schache has the ability to be a 250 gamer and the ability to be a best 10 key forward in the game and a successful best forward option on a team. He will likely take a few seasons before he establishes himself as is the case with almost all key forwards. He would benefit from early games, but as with all young key forwards, over those first roughly three seasons the output will be inconsistent, and then from as early as season three or more likely season four he will come into his own and become an exceptionally high level key forward.

UPDATE: 28/07/2015



Jacob Weitering (KPD)
Height: 195 cm ~ Weight: 90 kg ~ DOB: 23/11/1997
Recruited from: Dandenong Stingrays
Range: TOP 5

Why: If Gold Coast do nab the number 1 pick (looks likely) I can't see them passing over on Jacob Weitering. Been a clear cut top 5 draft pick for some time now and pick 1 is largely between him and Josh Schache depending on a clubs needs based pick.

Will give the Suns a sure head on young shoulders down back with an ability to roll forward as well. As a defender he reads the flight of the ball and intercepts well, massive key traits and one of the reasons why he is rated as the best in the land.

Balances his game between offence and defence, uses the ball well and as a tall defender uses his versatility well. A weakness would be his closing speed and against a forward who is extremely mobile would be found out but early days would be seen as a handy 3rd defender at Gold Coast behind May and Thompson.

If the Suns pass on Weitering and go with a Schache or Francis and Weitering makes it as far as pick 2 than Carlton would snaffle him smartly as he meets there needs well.

Joshua Schache (KPF)
Height: 199 cm ~ Weight: 96 kg ~ DOB: 21/08/1997
Recruited from: Murray Bushrangers
Range: TOP 5

Why: Schache is coming off the back of a 24 goal and Larke Medal winning under 18 carnival and along with Jacob Weitering has firmed as a likely number one draft pick.

There is a strong chance that Carlton/Brisbane will have an early pick and in Schache or Weitering they have potentially long term bookend players. One way or the other they currently have a 10 year KPP to select.

My opinion is that if Schache is available I can't see the Blues/Brisbane passing on him. They are developing a list as showed by potential in younger players during 2015 but in the role of KPF a player like Scahce would be great to have.

Like all young KPP Schache will be inconsistent early but given time he will prove his worth in spades. Has all the key attributes of a KPF - strength and size, foot skills on goal and general play, reading the flight and contested marking added with the ability to control the ball and hold his feet at ground level.

Jacob Weitering (Dandenong) 195cm 90kg

Position: Key defender

Playing Style: All-round defender.

Strength: Reading of the ball and intercept marking, footskills

Weakness: Speed and agility

Best position: Centre half back

Weitering is the best all-round defender. He isn’t the best one on one defender going or the best rebounder but he is pretty close to the top of all categories. His kicking is fantastic and his right boot is an absolute weapon. It is long and penetrating, which gives him the ability to come out of defence and clear long with a 55 metre pass. He knows when to leave his man and comes back to create a 2 on 1 with aplomb, which is his other main strength. I wouldn’t be expecting him to take the best defender on the team, because he isn’t a massive defender to take on the gorilla forwards (although there is still time for him to grow being a late bloomer) and he also isn’t the most agile or speedy. I think he plays best in a Harry Taylor type role, zoning off and taking marks and then having the ability to set up attacking raids or even go forward and pinch hit. I’m not sold on him as the number one pick because I don’t think you draft a defender at number one unless he is going to be your best defender. Weitering may be the best rebounding big but I’m not sure he can take the number one opposition forward every week, so in my books that will always make him the second most important player in the backline.

Josh Schache (Murray Bushrangers) 199cm 96 kg

Strengths: Marking, goalkicking, clean below knees

Weaknesses: Workrate, consistency, speed,

Best position: Full forward

Schache is my favourite player at the moment in this crop of youngsters. He has that x-factor about him in that he could do anything when the ball is in his area. He has very good hands and has a willingness to crash packs and throw his body around. He is generally a good kick for goal, with a really simple and fluent kicking motion although he can poke at the ball sometimes instead of kicking it 15 rows back. He is fantastic below his knees for a big guy and can do some things at ground level that most mids would be proud of. In the Vic Country v Metro game he lead out and picked up a half volley off his bootlaces and then fired a handpass off to a runner over his right shoulder all in one fluent motion which is something that most people of his size and build wouldn’t be able to do. He is more of a physical player than an athletic one, taking a lot of marks in one on one contests rather than on the lead. A lot of this is because of workrate, and although he runs a 14.1 beep, he is a little lazy and only tends to put in one hard effort. He has the ability to take a good contested mark, and has the strength to throw his opponents around to mark the ball at underage level but whether he can do it to experienced defenders who are the same size as him is another story. He also doesn’t have a lot of speed or explosiveness and this doesn’t help him to get away from his defender although his long arm span helps to combat this as it allows him to mark way out in front of a defender. If you want a key forward this year then Schache is your man because I don’t see too many other good options out there.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Reading up on Schache, I find it hard to believe that we would go for Weitering instead, who is much more of a utility type. All credit to the draft experts who have done some amazing write-ups on the two players. IMO it's these two and Francis who would make up the top 3 draft prospects.

I think as a player Weitering is rated as the best but not that far ahead of Schache. Lions obviously need a forward and are pretty settled down back, so that gives Schache a big tick. But with that said Weitering is seen as more versatile and some even consider him to have forward potential. Weitering also got the better of Schache when they played on each other

Draft day will be very interesting

 

[chopperduck]

No matter how good one player is compared to another, sometimes the order of the draft is determined by positional needs and not best available. Weitering might indeed end up being considered a better player, but we need a genuine KPF, and that is Schache. TBH, if we had the first 2 picks, id love us to go Schache and Francis.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I think as a player Weitering is rated as the best but not that far ahead of Schache. Lions obviously need a forward and are pretty settled down back, so that gives Schache a big tick. But with that said Weitering is seen as more versatile and some even consider him to have forward potential. Weitering also got the better of Schache when they played on each other

Draft day will be very interesting

He did - partly because he plays in front and has good anticipation - although it wasn't a day for forwards.

 

[John_Proctor]

Not sure how Rubin got a 'utility type' for weitering off those descriptios.

Rance is the comparison player in once and described as key defender in the other.

 

[John_Proctor]

I'd almost be happy t get pick 2 and see which one we are left with. That way the risk of the fluffed pick isn't on us.

 

[Lace Out]

We would pick Schache given the choice I'm pretty sure.Enough has not been said of his elite kicking I believe which is a HUGE bonus given the position he plays

 

[SizeMatters]

I really hope we get both Schache and Weitering... Would complete our team almost.

 

[cotter101]

He did - partly because he plays in front and has good anticipation - although it wasn't a day for forwards.
View attachment 159559

Nice photo.

Yeah, certainly wasn't a day for forwards. Wet and Windy. He wasn't getting much delivery, at least not decent delivery anyway.

 

[Cousin Jed]

Foot soreness? For a Qlder, you don't say.

He's already a true Lions player

 

[SizeMatters]

From what I heard Weitering was still taking grabs left right and centre all day. Schache work rate worries me... we don't need to carry another player when our team isn't playing well.

 

[chopperduck]

Some perspective, he is a 17 yo playing in an u18 cometition. We arent drafting a finished product, we draft a prospect.

He is also playing a KP which is incredibly hard to do. He will need a few years before he can even maybe hold down a spot.

 

[SizeMatters]

Some perspective, he is a 17 yo playing in an u18 cometition. We arent drafting a finished product, we draft a prospect.

He is also playing a KP which is incredibly hard to do. He will need a few years before he can even maybe hold down a spot.

Yeah I understand that which makes Weitering an even better prospect. He dominated Schache, has the work rate, the leadership, AFL brain in that he reads where the ball is going and the flight of the ball very well. As a 17 year old he held his own against Daw from NM IIRC. Weitering will be the better player, but I guess we can settle for Schache since he is a need...

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

From what I heard Weitering was still taking grabs left right and centre all day. Schache work rate worries me... we don't need to carry another player when our team isn't playing well.

I didn't see the game, but read somewhere that Collins played a fair part of the game on him and Weitering was dropping off his man to help out. Both seem like great prospects, either would be a welcomed addition.

 

[jjami15]

I didn't see the game, but read somewhere that Collins played a fair part of the game on him and Weitering was dropping off his man to help out. Both seem like great prospects, either would be a welcomed addition.

In a parallel universe if we were somehow able to get those three our spine for the next 10-15yrs would be set. Plus with the added depth of what we already have on our list. I know its all fanciful thinking but in my dreams but Luey gets us pick 2 as compo, Aish and Martin gets us pick in the teens for Collins and also another pick for Dixon. We can worry about our ruck situation another time.

 

[jackess]

In a parallel universe if we were somehow able to get those three our spine for the next 10-15yrs would be set. Plus with the added depth of what we already have on our list. I know its all fanciful thinking but in my dreams but Luey gets us pick 2 as compo, Aish and Martin gets us pick in the teens for Collins and also another pick for Dixon. We can worry about our ruck situation another time.

Then we'll just have to find some midfielders under the age of 24.

 

[rusty08]

Yeah I understand that which makes Weitering an even better prospect. He dominated Schache, has the work rate, the leadership, AFL brain in that he reads where the ball is going and the flight of the ball very well. As a 17 year old he held his own against Daw from NM IIRC. Weitering will be the better player, but I guess we can settle for Schache since he is a need...

How can you be so sure one hasn't matured quicker than the other? We're drafting for our future not necessarily next year. This will be our best chance imo to grab a genuine full forward, who by the way, is one of the nicest kicks for goal going around, as its been mentioned.

 

[iBeng]

How can you be so sure one hasn't matured quicker than the other? We're drafting for our future not necessarily next year. This will be our best chance imo to grab a genuine full forward, who by the way, is one of the nicest kicks for goal going around, as its been mentioned.

Should also be remembered that Schache WANTS to come to Brisbane. Do we realise how RARE that is to hear before draft day, from non-academy kids?

 

[jackess]

Should also be remembered that Schache WANTS to come to Brisbane. Do we realise how RARE that is to hear before draft day, from non-academy kids?

Aish said he was pretty happy to come to Brisbane. Doesn't mean he won't change his mind. He's hardly going to say otherwise especially if he was asked how he'd feel about joining his dad's former club.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Man you're a real bummer this week jackess.

 

[lionshine]

Aish said he was pretty happy to come to Brisbane. Doesn't mean he won't change his mind. He's hardly going to say otherwise especially if he was asked how he'd feel about joining his dad's former club.

Yeah I think people have blown Schache's comments out of proportion a little bit to be honest. He was queried about potentially joining the Lions and he said it would be nice to go there and try to finish what his Father had started but I don't think that necessarily means we are his club of choice and he really wants to come here.

In saying that they were still fantastic comments to read

 

[Quigley]

I didn't see the game, but read somewhere that Collins played a fair part of the game on him and Weitering was dropping off his man to help out. Both seem like great prospects, either would be a welcomed addition.

This is very true and worth remembering. Collins and Weitering are probably the best two KPDs available this year. Collins the Mal Michael type who will stick to his man and make life difficult whilst Weitering is the Leppa who can play on his man but often floats around and is given more licence to impact the play. I did not see this game but having seen them play together before I would have expected a fair bit of double teaming to be going on.

 

[jackess]

Man you're a real bummer this week jackess.
View attachment 159666

Sorry. As long as he doesn't sign Pickering as his manager I'm more than happy to take his word.

 

[cotter101]

This is very true and worth remembering. Collins and Weitering are probably the best two KPDs available this year. Collins the Mal Michael type who will stick to his man and make life difficult whilst Weitering is the Leppa who can play on his man but often floats around and is given more licence to impact the play. I did not see this game but having seen them play together before I would have expected a fair bit of double teaming to be going on.

Wasn't actually a lot of direct double teaming going on. Collins and Weitering both kept rotating off him. Kicked his only goal for the match after a strong mark against Collins IIRC.

Pretty woeful delivery, but what really stood out to me in Schache's game that day was his never give up attitude. Didn't give up all day and kept working hard both offensively and defensively, which was great to see. As previously said, not a day for Forwards and the delivery by his teammates was embarrassing to be blunt. He'd get space but they were kicking it over his head all day and they just made it easier for the opposition defenders in Weitering and Collins.