Opinion Butcher

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
All this talk about us being a better side because of butcher is rubbish. We are better because Sam Gray is playing in the midfield and guys like Achee are now getting full game time. He gets subbed off in the last qtr of the hawks game and we kick 5 goals to there 2 while he's out of the way. He try's hard but it's just not going to happen for him, we need to move on from the likes of Butcher and Moore for us to improve.
 
It's stupid to try and analyse that game on Saturday because of the condition. Did you see Matt White's miss? He'd never miss that if the ball and ground was dry.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Watching Jenkins recently has made me wish we'd got games into Butcher. He may be only a second tall but the undeniable fact is that with Walker to draw people away he scores goals. And he was their game-winner against Carlton with 5.0 when no-one else could buy a goal, and he got them off to good starts against us and West Coast.
Naturally Butcher is not likely to score goals immediately. I hope his dropping against Freo was not a knee-jerk reaction to a terrible pass he made when Wines was clear and he kicked it out of bounds. If he had been given this season and was now kicking his twos and threes something more could have been salvaged from this season. Although the question still remains about the kicking. He kicks like I used to when I emigrated from England. His field kicking is sometimes perfect, one from defence at Metricon spotted Jasper Pittard 50 metres away. But his set-shot kicking is appalling, there is a definite pause in his run as he kicks.
 
FineWines11 said:
When it comes to KPFs, kicking accuracy surely has to be the number one attribute needed followed by contested marking. Butcher can take a contested mark....cool.
Click to expand...


Wrong. So wrong.

If kicking accuracy was the most important tool then last year Bruest , Lindsey Thomas and Jamie Elliott would have been three of the best kpfs in the league.

But they aren't ..

Being able to draw the ball to the dangerous spots and make an aerial contest is the most important part

Then daylight

Then converting.

That's why you need tall big guys who can make a contest. Butch can do that. Still his kicking is buggered sure but count the games that has cost us over the years.. And I'll count the games we have lost because we didn't have a tall who could provide a contest and we either tried to chip it to the pockets or hesitated in the midfield because we had no targets or no confidence in the targets to contest.

It's why port would be looking at dixon. Except dixon only manages to do it 12-15 games a season ... I would feel a lot safer having butch on the team list knowing he can at the very least come in a play a part if dixon can't ..
 
philthy05 said:
Wrong. So wrong.

If kicking accuracy was the most important tool then last year Bruest , Lindsey Thomas and Jamie Elliott would have been three of the best kpfs in the league.

But they aren't ..

Being able to draw the ball to the dangerous spots and make an aerial contest is the most important part

Then daylight

Then converting.

That's why you need tall big guys who can make a contest. Butch can do that. Still his kicking is buggered sure but count the games that has cost us over the years.. And I'll count the games we have lost because we didn't have a tall who could provide a contest and we either tried to chip it to the pockets or hesitated in the midfield because we had no targets or no confidence in the targets to contest.

It's why port would be looking at dixon. Except dixon only manages to do it 12-15 games a season ... I would feel a lot safer having butch on the team list knowing he can at the very least come in a play a part if dixon can't ..
Click to expand...

Being an elite kick doesn't make up for being a poor aerial presence and being an elite aerial presence doesn't make up for being a poor kick. There's nearly $200 million worth of professional footballers in this competition, being a half baked player doesn't cut it unless you are playing at Melbourne.

Butch needs to work on his kicking. He needs to become a much, much better kick for goal if he wants to be a key forward in a premiership team. Even the biggest Butcher apologists would have to admit that.
 
This thread is now on page 197 which is John Butcher's height in cm.
 
philthy05 said:
Wrong. So wrong.
Being able to draw the ball to the dangerous spots and make an aerial contest is the most important part

Then daylight

Then converting.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, contested marking for KPFs is important. But Butcher is probably the best example of why having a great contested mark and crap kick just doesn't cut it. When did great contested marks ever win games? GOALS win games, scoreboard pressure wins games, and most importantly goal conversion wins games.

Jamie Elliott, Lindsay Thomas etc are small forwards, which are another position all together. Put it this way, if a small forward was the best crumber in the world with the best ability to pick the ball off the ground yet couldn't snap or kick goals, would they be on the team?....No.

Its just getting sad that people keep defending Butcher, pointing out his great marks in games but ignoring all the missed ones, and playing down his non-ability to kick because "he's a great mark". Let's look at the Gold Coast game, his only contested mark in the f50 was followed up by a horrible Out on the Full, his other grabs were on or outside the 50 followed up by horrible field kicks, I mean cmon man!

John Butcher is no good.
 
Jonts said:
how long you been waiting for that one haha

If we lose one KPF (Schulz or Shaw) Butch stays
Click to expand...

I thought about adding he weighs 94kg which is the number of pages El_Scorcho has contributed. :p
 
FineWines11 said:
Don't get me wrong, contested marking for KPFs is important. But Butcher is probably the best example of why having a great contested mark and crap kick just doesn't cut it. When did great contested marks ever win games? GOALS win games, scoreboard pressure wins games, and most importantly goal conversion wins games.

Jamie Elliott, Lindsay Thomas etc are small forwards, which are another position all together. Put it this way, if a small forward was the best crumber in the world with the best ability to pick the ball off the ground yet couldn't snap or kick goals, would they be on the team?....No.

Its just getting sad that people keep defending Butcher, pointing out his great marks in games but ignoring all the missed ones, and playing down his non-ability to kick because "he's a great mark". Let's look at the Gold Coast game, his only contested mark in the f50 was followed up by a horrible Out on the Full, his other grabs were on or outside the 50 followed up by horrible field kicks, I mean cmon man!

John Butcher is no good.
Click to expand...


This is what is wrong with anti butcher people.

You say we ignore his bad points but absolutely no one has ever ignored his bad points , meanwhile you explain away any of his good points and say he is no good?

Pro - butch people = people who know and recognise his weaknesses and strengths

Anti -butch people = people who claim there is no moon , it is simply the back of the sun.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

FineWines11 said:
Don't get me wrong, contested marking for KPFs is important. But Butcher is probably the best example of why having a great contested mark and crap kick just doesn't cut it. When did great contested marks ever win games? GOALS win games, scoreboard pressure wins games, and most importantly goal conversion wins games.

Jamie Elliott, Lindsay Thomas etc are small forwards, which are another position all together. Put it this way, if a small forward was the best crumber in the world with the best ability to pick the ball off the ground yet couldn't snap or kick goals, would they be on the team?....No.

Its just getting sad that people keep defending Butcher, pointing out his great marks in games but ignoring all the missed ones, and playing down his non-ability to kick because "he's a great mark". Let's look at the Gold Coast game, his only contested mark in the f50 was followed up by a horrible Out on the Full, his other grabs were on or outside the 50 followed up by horrible field kicks, I mean cmon man!

John Butcher is no good.
Click to expand...

Whether your point is valid or not this is a strange thing to say given Lindsay was gifted games despite not being able to hit the side of a barn 4 years ago.
 
Butch should just run flat out at goal and pass it to the idiot waving his flag behind the goals. His field kicking is fine so I can't see how he can not improve his set shots. He just needs a different approach imo.
 
FineWines11 said:
When it comes to KPFs, kicking accuracy surely has to be the number one attribute needed followed by contested marking. Butcher can take a contested mark....cool, he's shown over the years that he is a one trick pony in this department. But if you are going to spray the ball >90% of the time, taking contested marks within scoring distance means sweet FA. I'm sorry, Butch has had his chances many times and blown them. There's no point pinning false hope on the lad and trying to turn dirt into gold.
Click to expand...
Well actually Butcher can take a Mark in a pack if he cops no body pressure and gets a free run at it. However put body on him and I don't think I've ever seen him take an overhead grab. He's extremely soft when it comes to holding his shape in the contest.
 
mic59 said:
Watching Jenkins recently has made me wish we'd got games into Butcher. He may be only a second tall but the undeniable fact is that with Walker to draw people away he scores goals. And he was their game-winner against Carlton with 5.0 when no-one else could buy a goal, and he got them off to good starts against us and West Coast.
Naturally Butcher is not likely to score goals immediately. I hope his dropping against Freo was not a knee-jerk reaction to a terrible pass he made when Wines was clear and he kicked it out of bounds. If he had been given this season and was now kicking his twos and threes something more could have been salvaged from this season. Although the question still remains about the kicking. He kicks like I used to when I emigrated from England. His field kicking is sometimes perfect, one from defence at Metricon spotted Jasper Pittard 50 metres away. But his set-shot kicking is appalling, there is a definite pause in his run as he kicks.
Click to expand...
Jenkins can kick the bloody ball straight.
 
philthy05 said:
This is what is wrong with anti butcher people.

You say we ignore his bad points but absolutely no one has ever ignored his bad points , meanwhile you explain away any of his good points and say he is no good?

Pro - butch people = people who know and recognise his weaknesses and strengths

Anti -butch people = people who claim there is no moon , it is simply the back of the sun.
Click to expand...
Of course he's got some strengths, it's whats saved his but from being delisted. It might give him another year so we can all do this again and again and.......
 
Its a bit like Ground Hog day with Butch. Every year, we hear from clubland that he is working on his kicking, making progress etc etc. Yet 3 years later, he still kicks the ball at right angles. I held out for so long, but with Monster contracts coming up in Wines and Wingard, its time to trade or delist John boy.
 
powerpowerpower said:
but with Monster contracts coming up in Wines and Wingard, its time to trade or delist John boy.
Click to expand...

Wut?

If we signed Butch for next year he'd be on close to the minimum.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top